Sunsets

[Martinez]

Fear of the dark is still there. Your connection to sunsets is what is in question here.

I could equally assert that man finds sunsets beautiful because they represent that last part of the day prior to dark so man longs for it to last longer and never end.

That is why everyone thinks sunsets are beautiful.

See how easy it is to just make stuff up and assert it is true.

Yeah, I agree.

that's evolutions entire angle!


Hey mabey I'll go park my Lancer in the garage, and when I get back in two weeks it might be a Ferrari!

 

[Mystman]

Yes, but enjoyment must have evolved with us for us to be able to experience it!
so how did enjoyment evolve then?
what purpose does enjoyment serve then?

Oh, let me guess!

it's stress releif!

enjoyment evolved for us to do things that are good for reproduction.

eating is quite good for your chances of reproduction -> you get enjoyment out of eating.

having sex is quite good for your chances or reproduction -> you get enjoyment out of sex.

caring for your kids is quite for the chances of your kids reproduction -> you get enjoyment out of caring for your kids (in theory anyway..)

as already mentioned, getting enjoyment out of tinkering with sticks (thus making awesome tools) is good for your chances of reproduction -> you get enjoyment out of being creative.

ofcourse you can't give such an example for every thing that we enjoy, but that isn't the point. the fact that we can get "positve" feelings by doing certain things is an evolutionary advantage, since we will then persue those things. And as stated, "enjoying" a sunset is just a side product of that.

 

[Joman]

According to Young Earth Creationists - those who take Genesis literally - sunsets should be scary and feared. Why would God make his creation enjoy the dissapearance of the light and the oncomming darkness. Throughout the bible God is refered to as light, and evil as darkenss. The onset of darkness should be equated with the presence of evil and a sunset should be scary and ugly to humans- if Genesis is literally true.

Christians are unafraid of darkness. My view of a sunset is that it is simply beautiful. However, the scripture provides a deeper view for the faithful to appreciate.

The sun is representative of the Lord Jesus Christ as he is descriptively named the 'Daystar' in scripture. As a type of Jesus... the sun sinking down in the western sky typifies the death of Christ as well as the death of all who are in him. For we who are in Christ Jesus, the night holds no torment of fearfulness. The death of Jesus of Nazareth upon the tree was the most glorious moment of his life on earth in that it showed forth, most evidentially, the love of God for sinners. Jesus was unafraid of death, as was proven by his laying down his life freely on our behalf.

Furthermore, the sunset should not be considered, without also considering, the promised sunrise also. For three days the disciples of Jesus sat in the darkness of grief over the death of Jesus. But, at sunrise on the first day of the week Jesus arose, as does the sun, and the disciples ever since have faced the night with the hope, that faith in the promised return of Jesus and the ressurection of the dead in Christ provides.
These considerations are why the day is capitalized as Day in Genesis chapter one. God wants all men to walk eternally in the light of Jesus Christ without any encroachment of darkness intruding in. But temporarily, the day is also defined as consisting of a, "morning and an evening". So we walk in darkness and in light for our sojourn upon this present earth. The people in darkness (such as evolutionist) stumble at they know not what, having darkened minds that are completely decieved by Satan. The Christian walks in the light of truth and doesn't sleep as the heathen do. Therefore, I conclude that it is the evolutionist who is fearful of the impending death that comes upon all the children of Adam. [staff edit]

Joman.

Joman.

 

[notto]

Yeah, I agree.

that's evolutions entire angle!


Hey mabey I'll go park my Lancer in the garage, and when I get back in two weeks it might be a Ferrari!

Another baseless assertion followed by a strawman.

You're not making yourself look very good here Martinez, you might want to read a book or something before you go further.

 

[Freodin]

The ability to enjoy has an evolutionary advantage. As a byproduct of that ability, we also enjoy other (non-advantage) things.

just as the ability to be creative (and to enjoy creation) has an advantage: able to invent cool tools, shelters, etc. A side product of that ability to be creative is being able to make lame paintings.

Look at this post. It explains perfectly why some people enjoy things that do not have a direct advantage for anything.

Evolution can explain the existence of joy. What people do with that is their own job.

 

[Joman]

eating is quite good for your chances of reproduction -> you get enjoyment out of eating.

This is a poor evolutionary argument because it is obvious that the enjoyment of eating is unaffected by natural selection since, it is hunger pangs and not the joy of eating that drives all creatures to hunt for sustenance lest they die.

Take note that it is only man that will, contrary to "survival of the fittest" insticts, at the risk of death, while in the face of extreme physical discomfort, fast for 40 days and 40 nights for spiritual benefit.
It is also ony man that has an awarness of the sky, it's beauty, it's horror and the parables of it's deeper messages.

Joman.

 

[Joman]

Furthermore, the "joy of eating" dulls the survival instincts by causing a eater to lose the sense of danger while luxuriating in the joyful feeling. Utterly non evolutionary. Whole armies have been destroyed and cities and nations fallen while the people where satiating themselves. Evolutionary forces should have punished mankind for such foolish a mind numbing enjoyment.

Joman.

 

[Mystman]

This is a poor evolutionary argument because it is obvious that the enjoyment of eating is unaffected by natural selection since, it is hunger pangs and not the joy of eating that drives all creatures to hunt for sustenance lest they die.

I would say it's a combination of both. Hunger for "dude go and eat. now." Enjoyment of food for eating more than is needed for stilling the hunger. While we humans can just reason that eating more is going to prevent hunger, a simply system of enjoying eating would be quite handy for creatures that can't reason that way. (oh, and I also could've used hunger in my first example. Hunger and enjoying food are basically the same thing )

Take note that it is only man that will, contrary to "survival of the fittest" insticts, at the risk of death, while in the face of extreme physical discomfort, fast for 40 days and 40 nights for spiritual benefit.

Agreed, our brain allows us to have some freakish behavior. So?

It is also ony man that has an awarness of the sky, it's beauty, it's horror and the parables of it's deeper messages.

This might be true, and this might not be. Even if it is: so?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Another baseless assertion followed by a strawman.

You're not making yourself look very good here Martinez, you might want to read a book or something before you go further.

Unless he's applying Poe's Law. Then it looks perfect.

 

[Joman]

I would say it's a combination of both. Hunger for "dude go and eat. now." Enjoyment of food for eating more than is needed for stilling the hunger. While we humans can just reason that eating more is going to prevent hunger, a simply system of enjoying eating would be quite handy for creatures that can't reason that way.

Nonsense. The evolutionist claim that evolution is driven by natural selection forces. Hunger pangs are all that is required to fulfill that evolutionary requirement. Therefore, 'joy of eating" has no evolutionary pupose. Joy of eating leads to obesity and early death which is contrary to raising children and the survival of ones own person as well as the population at large.

Joman.

 

[Joman]

Agreed, our brain allows us to have some freakish behavior. So?

Evolution does not allow for the evolution of freakish behavior that countermands the survival of the fittest.

Joman.

 

[Joman]

Originally Posted by: joman
It is also ony man that has an awarness of the sky, it's beauty, it's horror and the parables of it's deeper messages.

This might be true, and this might not be. Even if it is: so

Evolutionary forces do not provide for the evolution of "the appreciation of things unnecessary to survival." That is, there isn't any evolutionary force to direct mankind toward such abilities.

Joman. </FONT>

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

Nonsense. The evolutionist claim that evolution is driven by natural selection forces. Hunger pangs are all that is required to fulfill that evolutionary requirement. Therefore, 'joy of eating" has no evolutionary pupose. Joy of eating leads to obesity and early death which is contrary to raising children and the survival of ones own person as well as the population at large.

Joman.

Your forgeting that our ancestors didn't have the abundance of food that we do so it makes sense for them to have enjoyed eating as much as possible when the food was available as they never knew when their next meal was coming. The ones that simply responded to hunger pangs would be selected against in a famine while the food loving ones would have a higher chance of survival due to having more body fat to live off.

 

[Mystman]

Nonsense. The evolutionist claim that evolution is driven by natural selection forces. Hunger pangs are all that is required to fulfill that evolutionary requirement. Therefore, 'joy of eating" has no evolutionary pupose. Joy of eating leads to obesity and early death which is contrary to raising children and the survival of ones own person as well as the population at large.

Joman.

How many obese wild animals do you know?

"Hunger" stops quite early during a large diner. The joy of eating ensures that you keep eating, and thus build a reserve for later. As already said, the two are basically the same (you could call the reason for that last plate of spaghetti "hunger", but I prefer calling it the joy of eating), but both give a clear evolutionary advantage. More food now -> less food required later.

edit: what TemperateSeaIsland said

 

[caravelair]

Nonsense. The evolutionist claim that evolution is driven by natural selection forces. Hunger pangs are all that is required to fulfill that evolutionary requirement.

not true. because it doesn't only matter that you eat, it also matters what you eat. food is not just about filling your belly, but getting the right nutrients. taste is an indicator of what sorts of nutrients are present. if a certain food has a nutrient we need, and is not poisonous, then it is an advantage to enjoy eating that food, because then you will seek it out.

Joy of eating leads to obesity and early death which is contrary to raising children and the survival of ones own person as well as the population at large.

not when food is a limited commodity, which it would have been until recent times. do you see a lot of hunter/gatherer obesity out there?

 

[Mystman]

Evolution does not allow for the evolution of freakish behavior that countermands the survival of the fittest.

Joman.

As far as I am aware, nobody has claimed that this freakish behavior has evolved. The more complicated the brains, the more abstract the concepts it can handle. Thinking certainly is an evolutionary advantage, but with the wrong base-information, the outcome of that thinking might be a disadvantage.

Take 2 brothers that are seperated at birth or something. One is raised in a middle-class western family, goes to Harvard, and uses his brain to grasp complex concepts like complex numbers (hahaha,ha), and invents something cool. His brother is raised in a terrorist training camp, and uses his brain to mix of his favority holy book of choice and the "KILL ALL INFIDELS/LIBERALS/!1!!1!"-messages that he has been taught since birth.

End result: 1 brother has made good use of his brains, other brother has produced some freaky ideas with his brains.

The short (and maybe more correct ) version of this post would be: ideas aren't genetic.

 

[Joman]

Your forgeting that our ancestors didn't have the abundance of food that we do so it makes sense for them to have enjoyed eating as much as possible when the food was available as they never knew when their next meal was coming.

The enjoyment of food will not prevent famine nor it's outcome. Fear of starvation, and the impact of starvation upon the body are the driving forces that cause populations to hunt for sustenance and prepare for the emerging threat of future famine.

Joman.

 

[Joman]

How many obese wild animals do you know?

Bears and other creatures instinctively store fat for hibernation periods. But, the enjoyment of eating hasn't been seen as a factor. In fact it is the force of instinct that insures that creatures do what is necessary for their survival. And, since instinct is the driving force that best insures survival no enjoyment is required.

Joman.

 

[Joman]

... it doesn't only matter that you eat, it also matters what you eat. food is not just about filling your belly, but getting the right nutrients. taste is an indicator of what sorts of nutrients are present. if a certain food has a nutrient we need, and is not poisonous, then it is an advantage to enjoy eating that food, because then you will seek it out.

Animals know instinctively what to eat. Enjoyment isn't the reason they choose their food. Many creatures, as well as man, eat unpleasant things that are medicinal. If enjoyment was required then, medicine would be avoided and a result contrary to survival would result. The history of mankind provides numerous examples that enjoyment dulls the survival instinct, which is contrary to the theory of evolution.

Joman.

 

[TemperateSeaIsland]

The enjoyment of food will not prevent famine nor it's outcome. Fear of starvation, and the impact of starvation upon the body are the driving forces that cause populations to hunt for sustenance and prepare for the emerging threat of future famine.

Joman.

Animals dont plan ahead like that, an early primate wouldn't have the abstract thought to think of the future as potentialy having a famine. The only thing that would matter is the present. Thats why the enjoyment of food evolved it maximises the energy input when food is available. Our enjoyment of fatty & sweet foods are also a conseqence of this.

Bears and other creatures instinctively store fat for hibernation periods. But, the enjoyment of eating hasn't been seen as a factor. In fact it is the force of instinct that insures that creatures do what is necessary for their survival. And, since instinct is the driving force that best insures survival no enjoyment is required.

The enjoyment of food is an instinct in many ways as it compels us and other animals to eat more allowing greater fat reserves.