Suicide

[TexasSky]

My apologies for not responding to the whole post. As far as I can tell, it is aptly summarised by the final paragraph, so I'll respond to that.


And what if it's not temporary? My reasons for being suicidal, for instance, aren't the kind that go away. I've just learned to ignore them.

I am glad you learned to ignore them, but I am curious about what you consider a permanent reason that will not go away?

I've wracked my brains trying to figure it out.

I have family and I have friends who are severely disabled, and who will not ever get "better" phyically, but that is not a reason. The depression and emotional anguish that sometimes comes with that IS termporary, though the physical disability is not.

I have family who are terminally ill. That is not a reason. There can be stress, there can be physical pain. It comes and it goes. Some of it is treatable. The moments when they are so down they think they cannot go on are tiny nano-seconds, and then they are once more grateful for every moment they have left to say, "I love you," and to be with those they love.

I have a friends who buried children to brain tumors. I've never seen such unbelievable pain. They still miss their children. They still hurt from the loss of those children, but they have found joy in other areas of life.

Pain does not have to be temporary for the total sense of hopelessness to be temporary.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

I am glad you learned to ignore them, but I am curious about what you consider a permanent reason that will not go away?

I've wracked my brains trying to figure it out.

I have family and I have friends who are severely disabled, and who will not ever get "better" phyically, but that is not a reason. The depression and emotional anguish that sometimes comes with that IS termporary, though the physical disability is not.

I have family who are terminally ill. That is not a reason. There can be stress, there can be physical pain. It comes and it goes. Some of it is treatable. The moments when they are so down they think they cannot go on are tiny nano-seconds, and then they are once more grateful for every moment they have left to say, "I love you," and to be with those they love.

I have a friends who buried children to brain tumors. I've never seen such unbelievable pain. They still miss their children. They still hurt from the loss of those children, but they have found joy in other areas of life.

Pain does not have to be temporary for the total sense of hopelessness to be temporary.

Very much so. A lot of people don't realize that.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Dear Wiccanchild,

I think you should talk to a psychiatrist, they can do a lot of good, I would be totally crazy without mine, we are talking non-functional. I see you don't need to be hospitalized which is great, but it could happen in the future, and don't be ashamed of that. I mean if you got to go there you got to go there. Antidepressants, can really stop suicidal thoughts from happening, the placebo affect alone can do it. So if you talked to a psychiatrist, he could get you a real low dosage of an antidepressant, so low it is only the placebo affect that is helping you. I used to take ten milligrams of lexapro, I believe a theraputic dose is forty milligrams, but I am going to try to go with out it. I feel that the only reason suicidal thoughts entered into my head wa because I was working seventy to one hundred hours a week, I mean that'll do it. The second I pop that pill, all those thoughts stopped, and I got off the couch, quite sleeping all day, and reduced my work hours by half, that cured it. So I just got to remember I really shouldn't be working more than sixty hours a week, that is absolutely ridiculous to work, from four am to ten pm qith only a few hours worth of breaks in there, seven days a week. That is stupid, don't do that, I am talking to myself on that, but those antidepressants can really do the trick, just make sur you take them under the care of a psychiatrist. I hope you don't mind me telling you that, but if you can make those thoughts not happen, it is worth telling you that.

Thomas

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I am glad you learned to ignore them, but I am curious about what you consider a permanent reason that will not go away?

As open as I am on these forums, that is one of those things I'm going to keep to myself. Much to your fustration, perhaps.

I have family and I have friends who are severely disabled, and who will not ever get "better" phyically, but that is not a reason. The depression and emotional anguish that sometimes comes with that IS termporary, though the physical disability is not.

I have family who are terminally ill. That is not a reason. There can be stress, there can be physical pain. It comes and it goes. Some of it is treatable. The moments when they are so down they think they cannot go on are tiny nano-seconds, and then they are once more grateful for every moment they have left to say, "I love you," and to be with those they love.

I have a friends who buried children to brain tumors. I've never seen such unbelievable pain. They still miss their children. They still hurt from the loss of those children, but they have found joy in other areas of life.

Pain does not have to be temporary for the total sense of hopelessness to be temporary.

Indeed. nevertheless, my point stands: reasons for being suicidal can be permanent. As many sources attest, suicidal thoughts arise when one's pain exceeds one's capacity for coping with pain for a prolonged period of time. Thus, the trick is to increase one's capacity for coping with pain, rather than reducing the pain itself (which may be a fruitless endeavour). I pursured this option, and am alive to tell the tale.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Dear Wiccanchild,

I think you should talk to a psychiatrist, they can do a lot of good, I would be totally crazy without mine, we are talking non-functional. I see you don't need to be hospitalized which is great, but it could happen in the future, and don't be ashamed of that. I mean if you got to go there you got to go there. Antidepressants, can really stop suicidal thoughts from happening, the placebo affect alone can do it. So if you talked to a psychiatrist, he could get you a real low dosage of an antidepressant, so low it is only the placebo affect that is helping you. I used to take ten milligrams of lexapro, I believe a theraputic dose is forty milligrams, but I am going to try to go with out it. I feel that the only reason suicidal thoughts entered into my head wa because I was working seventy to one hundred hours a week, I mean that'll do it. The second I pop that pill, all those thoughts stopped, and I got off the couch, quite sleeping all day, and reduced my work hours by half, that cured it. So I just got to remember I really shouldn't be working more than sixty hours a week, that is absolutely ridiculous to work, from four am to ten pm qith only a few hours worth of breaks in there, seven days a week. That is stupid, don't do that, I am talking to myself on that, but those antidepressants can really do the trick, just make sur you take them under the care of a psychiatrist. I hope you don't mind me telling you that, but if you can make those thoughts not happen, it is worth telling you that.

Thomas

I appreciate the advice, but I'm more interested in why you think I should take anti-depressants.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Alright, only a good psychiatrist, would know if you need antidepressants, some doctors, think they are cute, and prescribe anything you want, but a good one, will listen to how frequent you have suicidal thoughts, maybe they don't happen frequently at all, maybe you can't remember the last time you had a suicidal thought. They will listen to how frequent you have these suicidal thoughts, and make a diagnosis, after much thought, I mean a proper diagnoises takes a long time, six months to a year really, but to get the right drugs, is really worth it.

When I was working one hundred hours in a week, and knewI was going to lose my job, and frankly, wanted to so I could collect unemployment and try to get into another career. The antidepressants, made the suicidal thoughts go away, I haven't had a suicidal thought pop into my head, and drive me nuts, for two years. I attribute that to, cutting my work hours in half and taking an antidepressant. They worked for me, and I have been a consumer of mental health services for seven and a half years, in that time there was only one time that I almost went into the hospital again, only one time. A lot of mentally ill people, keep going in and out of the hospital, a lot of times, but for me I only have been in there two times, and other than that one time, I haven't even come close to going to the hospital.

I feel cured and I attribut that to the psychotropic drugs I take. So I hate to see someone, who I feel is a nice pen pal, have to suffer from suicidal thoughts, that could just never even enter your head, if you take an antidepressant. I mean I heard of a guy who took prozack for back pain, and some how he got agitated, and hung himself. However, if you are having suicidal thoughts, a little medication, could help those stay away, but only a psychiatrist could really be sure if one is going to help you.

I mean the fact that I do have disease that is related to schizophrenia, and that, suicide is the leading cause of premature death for schizophrenics, frankly makes me want to avoid stress at all costs. I feel that unless I am ninety years old in horrible pain, life is worth living, and it always will be worth living, because I intend to not screw it up.

I had a psycho therapist tell me one time, that you may have a disturbing thought from time to time and that is like a broken record getting stuck on the record repeating the same stupid thought, trying to ruin your day, and all you have to do, is bump the record, so it doesn't just stay there stuck.

There are people who need their antidepressants, to stop from trying to kill themselves. The sad fact about suicide, is that once someone makes that first attempt, they have crossed a statistically measured line, that a lot of people, can't survive. After that first attempt, the odds, that they will try a suicide attempt in the future, is much greater than a person who never has, infact, it is like after they make that first attempt, the patient is almost doomed, to keep trying suicide attempts, till they succeed. There is such a thing as a healthy normal mind, and suicidal thoughts, when they become frequent, or you can't bump the record player off of them, really are serious, and medication can really make that stop, or even electroconvulsive shock therapy, for those who keep relapsing.

Suicide is more common than murder, if someone dies from a gun, the odds are, he used it on himself, and most woman don't use a gun, they use pills mostly. So stay healthy, and it doesn't hurt to talk to a psychiatrist, and maybe even go to psychotherapy, from a psychologist. I had psychotherapy for five years, to help me get rid of my paranoid delusions, it really helped me to talk to someone, about the problems I was thinking about nonstop, I actually needed the medication, so I could put stuff out of my mind, and actually focus on what the hell I was trying to do. It has been a long hard, road, but pretty much my mind doesn't go wonder off when I am having a conversation with someone anymore, and it is nice to be able to follow a conversation now, and really, be able to enjoy the conversation. I mean man, twenty four seven I would worry and worry about all these paranoid fantasies of people out to get me. My adreniline was going all the time and it gave me a pain in the back of my head, that I thought was going to kill me, that really freaked me out, and that pain was from anxiety. The whole time I was like that I didn't get an ulcer, I kept thinkingI was going to get one, but I think you get those from bacteria infections in the stomach.

I am all better now but it has been a long hard road. Good luck to you wiccan, and I hope you don't have a mental illness, but only a psychiatrist would know that, so it doesn't hurt to go in for a mental health check up. Stay healthy, and do stuff that is fun.

I hope you don't mind me telling you all this, I mean I suffered from paranoid schizophrenic delusions for four years, wit hruminations, that wouldn't clear up probably for two years. Suffering with mental illness is bad, and I hope you are not even suffering at all, so hang in there. Sometimes just getting stimulation in your life, can take away the symptoms of mental illness, especially if your mood is depressed, and scared. It doesn't hurt to get R and R you bet.

Well I have talked enough here, and wish you well, hang in there, life is worth living, and for the next eighty years, if you take good care of your body, it always will be, life is just crazy like that, bad stuff happens, you get through it, and you wind up okay.

 

[ladyt28]

o

I have the mental illness schizoaffective disorder which is schizophrenia and bipolar put together. The leading cause of premature death for schizophrenics is suicide. So suicide is something I am careful about. I make sure I am enjoying life, that I am working and progressing on goals. I hope to get out of teaching and go into a field that involves being more of a scientist. I have to take medication for my illness, and I was taking an antidepressant, but I am trying to get off of that one now. It was a real low dosage, so hopefully I don't need it.

However there are people who suffer from depression, and to finally make the urge of killing themselves go away, they get electro convulsive shock therapy, or they take antidepressants. Sometimes making suicidal thoughts go away is as simple as taking antidepressants. To me it seems strange to think as a young person with a healthy body that life is no longer worth living? I feel that life is always worth living, if you are not in agnozing screming pain. There are family reunions, and watching the news, seeing how humanity is progressig politically, and reading interesting books, and the internet. Why some people decide to kill themselves, and foreclose on all dreams, and hope of any recovery I cannot understand.

Probably what keeps me going is, just thinking, like I don't want to let my Mom down, who sees me as a succesful human being, and I am trying to live my life as a law biding citizen who was raised right, which is a lot more than what a lot of kids growing up can say about themselves. There are a lot of jerk kids growing now a days, an I am glad I wasn't one of them. So you have to keep a sense of worth, and be emotionally fit, to survive, and I try to be those things to the best of my ability.

God bless you!! May the Lord deliver His strength and love to you!

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Dear Lady 28,

It ain't easy, but I make it look easy. Thanks for responding, I hope to hear from wiccan you bet.

 

[Mark51]

Good point and I agree!

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Suicide is not optimal. The good life is optimal. But if the good life is impossible, because of injury or pain etc, then maybe suicide is preferable. After all, in the psychology of emotion and feeling, pain and depression etc are meant to cause avoidance of states of affairs. So, if we are stuck with them, then it seems we are being commanded to "avoid life" by our own psychology.

 

[orangeness365]

I was suicidal less than a year ago, and went to an outpatient program for it. I felt ashamed when I got there, because my only reason for being there was failing out of an undergraduate degree and getting schizophrenia, but I felt there were people there that were in way worse situations than I was in. I'm ashamed to admit that part of what snapped me out of it, was realizing that other people had it way worse than I had it. I learned to be grateful for the family I have and I started to wonder if my love for them was as deep as I thought it was, since I was so strongly considering the option of suicide. I also have a home and food, which many people don't have. I realized the main things driving me was hopelessness, depression, pride from failing out of an undergraduate degree, and being a lover of pleasure more than a lover of God. I know that each persons reason for committing suicide are different, but mine were ugly. My main reason was I loved pleasure more than I loved God. I think listening to Christian music nonstop helped reroute my thinking so that I stopped thinking about suicide as much and started thinking more about how great God is helped too. The irony is I realized once I stopped being suicidal, that I was already living a life of pleasure more so after failing out of college than before that. My pride about failing as a moral human being and out of college had damaged my sense of feeling good about myself though, and was a contributing factor to my being suicidal. I've learned to focus more on what I'm grateful for, and to stop being so hopeless about developing schizophrenia, even if I live a life of a complete couch potato.

 

[Hishandmaiden]

Suicide is something, I believe, that people do out of a sense of hopelessness in their situations. It is wrong, but sometimes, life can be so horrible that one thinks of nothing but suicide. I know this because I had been there. There are many times in my life when I consider suicide.

 

[WoundedDeep]

I was plagued with suicidal thoughts since the age of 7, mainly due to problems in my life. Suicide can happen for a lot of reasons, such as when you are brainwashed to kill yourself for a god, or if you have been through lots of trauma or if you are simply guilt ridden after committing some crime you deem unforgivable. My suicide impulses came from trauma and now I have a very good way to resist those thoughts: I rely on my faith and from it I know suicide is wrong and evil.

 

[Blue Wren]

I do not think, it is fair, to make judgements, that are generalised, when there are so many things you must consider, with each person, who takes their life. I do think, it is very tragic, especially, when the person, is young and healthy, yes.

 

[Soul2Soul]

I have the mental illness schizoaffective disorder which is schizophrenia and bipolar put together. The leading cause of premature death for schizophrenics is suicide. So suicide is something I am careful about. I make sure I am enjoying life, that I am working and progressing on goals. I hope to get out of teaching and go into a field that involves being more of a scientist. I have to take medication for my illness, and I was taking an antidepressant, but I am trying to get off of that one now. It was a real low dosage, so hopefully I don't need it.

However there are people who suffer from depression, and to finally make the urge of killing themselves go away, they get electro convulsive shock therapy, or they take antidepressants. Sometimes making suicidal thoughts go away is as simple as taking antidepressants. To me it seems strange to think as a young person with a healthy body that life is no longer worth living? I feel that life is always worth living, if you are not in agnozing screming pain. There are family reunions, and watching the news, seeing how humanity is progressig politically, and reading interesting books, and the internet. Why some people decide to kill themselves, and foreclose on all dreams, and hope of any recovery I cannot understand.

Probably what keeps me going is, just thinking, like I don't want to let my Mom down, who sees me as a succesful human being, and I am trying to live my life as a law biding citizen who was raised right, which is a lot more than what a lot of kids growing up can say about themselves. There are a lot of jerk kids growing now a days, an I am glad I wasn't one of them. So you have to keep a sense of worth, and be emotionally fit, to survive, and I try to be those things to the best of my ability.

Well done my friend ... keep going. One of my church friends is a Schizophreniac and has taught me a lot about understanding people in general. I think you have great reasons for to keep going and am encouraged and inspired by your example

 

[keith99]

Do you not have any family or friends who would miss you? Would your death truly be of no account to anyone else? You may well have tangible obligations to other people. Suppose you're the main breadwinner for a family? Suppose you have a professional career, with responsibilities to customers, or clients, or patients? Killing yourself could certainly put significant hardship on other people. Those who are suicidally depressed usually don't consider all the ramifications of their act, and rarely make plans to mitigate "collateral" damage. (Though some do.)

Collateral damage goes both ways. My maternal grandfather had Alzheimers. He would be holding my grandmothers hand and asking to see Ruthie. That was her. What do yuo think years of that does to someone? Heck it hurts me and I was spared ever actually seeing it happen.

 

[Soul2Soul]

I was plagued with suicidal thoughts since the age of 7, mainly due to problems in my life. Suicide can happen for a lot of reasons, such as when you are brainwashed to kill yourself for a god, or if you have been through lots of trauma or if you are simply guilt ridden after committing some crime you deem unforgivable. My suicide impulses came from trauma and now I have a very good way to resist those thoughts: I rely on my faith and from it I know suicide is wrong and evil.

I have had traumatic experiences and suicidal thoughts too but nothing compared to what you have had to endure. I am so encouraged to hear about your successes and victories. Well done - keep fighting the good fight.

 

[Cute Tink]

I didn't realize how much of this thread was rather old at this point. I was going to quote a couple people, but the posts are from 2008.

Suicide is a sticky problem for me. On the one hand, I do favor the right of people to choose to give up if they so desire. On the other hand, I will do my best to talk someone out of suicide if I possibly can. I think that people are worth fighting for and that they do have something to look forward to if they give life a chance.

While I acknowledge the often devastating effects on those left behind after a suicide, I find it sometimes hard to argue against because I really understand why someone can finally give in. Spending every day of your life (in some cases) trying to justify why you should stay around for another day gets exhausting. Most people, if they seek help, can find enough hope to stick around until things get better, but feeling hopeless can be very much overpowering.

Honestly, I have struggled with suicidal and self harm thoughts off and on since I was a teenager. I can't think of a day in over 2 years that I haven't seriously considered just ending it, but I have found that little sliver of hope in even the worst moments thus far and I wouldn't leave my children behind like that anyway.

I don't feel like I could really argue against the act of someone giving up who really feels hopeless. I don't consider it an evil act and sometimes I don't think it's really wrong to do. Maybe I have a different opinion of death from my own rather jaded position though.

 

[Messy]

Opinions? I'm quite intent on hearing what people think of the subject because, and I don't believe I'm blowing this out of proportion, it seems the constitutions of what leads people to suicide can be both traumatic and subtle. So: what do you think?

I did an attempt when my ex wanted a divorce and he said he'd get the kids. I wouldn't have really done it, had just gotten my baby, but they gave me prozac and all of a sudden I had that I wanted to do it, warned the psychiater, but before it wasn't serious so he didn't believe it and doubled the dose and the next day I was at the water with an overdose. Luckily I was afraid of hell, so I prayed the sinner's prayer and then I couldn't take the rest and I had a Phone with me which I never had, so I could call my ex. I was unconscious and got some stuff to neutralize it.

 

[hankroberts]

Out of interest, does anyone have any arguments against suicide?

It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, which creates more pain and suffering than it alleviates.