Was Job righteous? Point being, what you quote may be the rule, but clearly there are exceptions.
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When the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears and delivers them out of all their troubles.
I know it does.
But still the fact is that Christians can get depression - and those who are mentally ill, schizophrenic and depressed can become Christians.
Christians can get terminal cancer, suffer a shocking bereavement, get into debt, be tempted by the world and lusts of the flesh, and then maybe make decisions when they are not of sound mind, or mistakenly believe that they have blown it with God, so they might as well be dead.
God sometimes delivers us from our illnesses and troubles, and sometimes doesn't but shows us that he is with us IN them.
I've read where the late evangelist, David Watson, wrote about his struggle with depression. I've read testimonies form others who went through similar things. The temptation to end their lives was there; they didn't, but someone else could do.
Moving on from this topic.
People are going to see what they want to see no matter what verses are presented.
I pray that folks pray and fast and seek the Scriptures again on this matter in the event they may be wrong. Read a bunch of Christian articles on the topic. Ask the Lord what He thinks.
Was Job righteous? Point being, what you quote may be the rule, but clearly there are exceptions.
People are going to see what they want to see no matter what verses are presented.
I pray that folks pray and fast and seek the Scriptures again on this matter in the event they may be wrong. Read a bunch of Christian articles on the topic. Ask the Lord what He thinks.
No one is righteous, including Job.
Neither is judging the final destiny of a soul .There is a difference between pointing out sinful behaviour, and playing God .In fact it is likely to rebound on you, as you will be judged harshly ,if you do the same .Hello Archer_on_Fire, yes I did read everything you wrote. It is not biblical. All of us have tempation to break any of God's Commandments. Breaking anyone of them is sin *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4. The wages is sin is death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son [FORGIVENESS through confession and repentance and faith]. If you kill yourself you have committed an unpardonable sin because there is no way you can seek God's forgiveness.
Sure they are, just not truly righteous...they are as righteous as they can be as the Psalm I was talking about indicates. You want other scripture that says people were righteous? I can do that for you.
There is a difference between worldly sorrow and Godly sorrow.Why do you ask? I mean there are many different reasons for suicide, and it's not all because they are upset with themselves. Also, if Judas was so upset with himself he committed suicide, I'd say he was darned sorry for his sin so it would seem to me that is about at repentant/sorry as one can get.....
The bible seems to be full of contradictions since there are so many interprétations . There is no mention of dying (not murder ) by you own hand when suffering ,or lonliness is so great . If it is done in hate , to punish people that could be different .My friend, you really do not know?
1 JOHN 1:9 [9], If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
PROVERBS 28:13 [13], He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.
I suggest you read your bible. How are you going to seek God's forgiveness for killing yourself when your dead?
There is a difference between worldly sorrow and Godly sorrow.
2 Corinthians 7:10
"Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death."
Scripture never attributes Judas as someone who dies with Godly sorrow (Acts 1:15-25).
In fact it's quite the opposite, Judas is ascribed as someone who due to his wickedness, is now getting what he deserved ... "left to go where he belongs.” …aka hell.
Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it over our opinions. Of course God is about law. God's LAW (10 Commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSLAMS 119:172. They make nothing perfect but teach us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour. They lead us to the cross of Christ that we might be FORGIVEN by faith in God's WORD alone for salvation.
WHAT IS SIN?
NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES
JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW
Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments saying that if we break them we commit sin v9 that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to God and LOVE to our neighbour in v11. Maybe you missed that one?
ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.
Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that he did not know what sin was without God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's commandments and Paul uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)
links to...
1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.
John is saying the same thing as James and Paul and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context John uses v15 of MURDER as an example of sin which is God's 6th Command of the 10.
Sin is indeed defined in God's WORD as breaking any of the 10 Commandments in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures.
God's WORD is very clear what sin is...
Now you want to apply that to Suicide. God's WORD says thou shalt not kill which is the 6th commandment that defines sin if broken *EXODUS 20:13. How are you going to seek God's forgiveness if you kill yourself once your dead?
Hope this helps.
I find you scary, as you seem to totally lacking in the imagination to understand in what circumstances someone could save their soul by commiting suicide .God's truth does set us free and it is the WORD of GOD.
JOHN 8:31-32 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
JOHN 17:17 [17], Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth.
How can you be set free without God's Word?
He was with God and knew Him,lived with Him ,prayed with Him ,and then betrayed Him .A big problem is that suicide does not give one a chance to repent that is a big deal. The person is setting out to break one of the Ten Commandments and commit murder. It's never good to go ahead and sin on purpose thinking that for some reason we will be forgiven.
Judas killed himself and the Bible says that it would have been better if he would have never been born.
M-Bob
Correct, suicide is indeed an unpardonable sin. One of God's 10 commandments is that we should not kill *EXODUS 20:13. This includes ourselves. When we sin or break God's commandments when we are alive we can always seek God in repentance and forgiveness for our sins as we have faith in God's WORD. You cannot do this once you have killed yourself.
We are not our own we are brought with a price.
1 CORINTHIANS 3:16-17
[16], Know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? [17], If any man defiles the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
He was with God and knew Him,lived with Him ,prayed with Him ,and then betrayed Him .
The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
Having been suicidal and having lost someone to suicide, it is often the result of mental illness and an act of utter hopelessness.
Christians can become ill. Just like anyone else, including with depression or any other mental illness. Depression warps the mind and the individual who commits suicide is not in the right state of mind. I believe God understands this.
While depression is treatable, for some people medication doesn't help and neither does therapy. Why? I don't know.
So no I absolutely don't believe it is an unforgivable sin. God said nothing can snatch a saved person out of his hands, including mental illness.
Luther pointed out a long time ago that somebody that commits suicide is more like a traveller on a road mugged by robbers. Therefore, he changed the longstanding medieval practice of refusing funerals to those who died by suicide.
I don't think suicide is an unforgivable sin. Our salvation is not dependent on our works.
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