Sufficiency of Scripture?

[Alphadux]

I made a post in the philosophy section that contained some elemets of what I'm about to ask, but I'm going to post in here too.

It seems to me that the Scripture leaves too many moral issues open to opinion. It makes it almost impossible to determine whether some things are right or wrong. How do we determine whether or not we should take part in something if the Scriptures don't tell us? Conscience isn't enough since conscience varies from person to person.

 

[ContentInHim]

I disagree. Except that I do agree that our conscience can be so seared from sin that it no longer warns us of our guilt.

Once I began reading The Bible daily, I discovered that there isn't too much wiggle room as to whether a certain action is a sin or not. In addition, I have also discovered that no matter where I'm reading (I read straight through, cover to cover, and then start over again) I can find the answer to a problem I'm pondering even if the book and chapter don't seem especially relevant to the problem.

If you read the Bible under the tuteledge of the Holy Spirit - pray before and after your daily reading that He teach you or show you what God wants you to be taught/shown - it's pretty clear.

 

[Alphadux]

I wasn't saying that anyone's conscience was necessarily seared. Very godly people have thought differently on different issues. Charles Spurgeon smoked cigars, yet other people of his day thought it to be sinful. Luther liked his beer. Some Christians today don't like cards others find nothing wrong with it. Actions are either sinful or they're not. They can't be both.

 

[imind]

If you read the Bible under the tuteledge of the Holy Spirit - pray before and after your daily reading that He teach you or show you what God wants you to be taught/shown - it's pretty clear.

this is absolutely not the case, as there is still much disagreement among christians, as regards scripture, doing this very thing.

 

[TheOrthodoxOne]

I wasn't saying that anyone's conscience was necessarily seared. Very godly people have thought differently on different issues. Charles Spurgeon smoked cigars, yet other people of his day thought it to be sinful. Luther liked his beer. Some Christians today don't like cards others find nothing wrong with it. Actions are either sinful or they're not. They can't be both.

Actually, you just showed that they(actions) can be both(sinful/not sinful). This is true. It does depend upon the conscience of the individual. Not its being sinful or not, but whether the individual perceives it to be so. But in regards to an action being sinful or not; God knows.

 

[neunown]

It seems to me that the Scripture leaves too many moral issues open to opinion. It makes it almost impossible to determine whether some things are right or wrong. How do we determine whether or not we should take part in something if the Scriptures don't tell us? Conscience isn't enough since conscience varies from person to person.

scripture really tells us everything that we need to know about morality; we just have to read it

 

[Alphadux]

scripture really tells us everything that we need to know about morality; we just have to read it

Maybe, but it's not always that clear.

 

[Alphadux]

Actually, you just showed that they(actions) can be both(sinful/not sinful). This is true. It does depend upon the conscience of the individual. Not its being sinful or not, but whether the individual perceives it to be so. But in regards to an action being sinful or not; God knows.

It's only sinful because they're not partaking in faith, not because the action itself is sinful.

 

[MrSnow]

Scripture isn't given to us in order to give us a concise code of right and wrong. Also, Christ didn't come to clarify a moral code so that we have a more complete list of do's and don't's. The problem isn't that Scripture isn't clear enough on moral issues. The problem is that we feel that we need it to be. The whole Law is summed up in one command (which comes in two parts): Love. Love God with your entire being, and love your neighbor as yourself. The ENTIRE Law rests upon this command. If we feel that we need a more complete list of right and wrong, then we are that much further away from being perfected in Love. If we love God and our neighbor, then we won't worry about a set of rules.

 

[artybloke]

The Bible is not an Enquire Within About Everything book. I doubt the Holy Spirit wants people to be acting like children, always asking Mummy & Daddy if they can go out and play.

Try being adult and thinking for yourselves.

 

[Steve Petersen]

The Bible is not an Enquire Within About Everything book. I doubt the Holy Spirit wants people to be acting like children, always asking Mummy & Daddy if they can go out and play.

Try being adult and thinking for yourselves.

Right said, Fred!

I have often wondered why the Christian world often insists that we become MORE dependent on God as we mature in faith. The Bible so often describes a persons relationship to God as a parental one. What parent wants their children to become MORE dependent at they get older?

 

[Alphadux]

Right said, Fred!

I have often wondered why the Christian world often insists that we become MORE dependent on God as we mature in faith. The Bible so often describes a persons relationship to God as a parental one. What parent wants their children to become MORE dependent at they get older?

You guys are right. We're to be led by the Spirit and not by the Law. But how do we know when it's the Spirit leading and not our own conscience? Though conscience is a good thing it can also be unreliable.

I've been diagnosed with Scrupulosity. It's a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder which affects one's religious beliefs. A really extreme example is St. Ignatius of Loyola. He felt that if he stepped on two pieces of straw that were in the shape of a cross that he was sinning. Obviously that's not the case and he probably knew that. But some things aren't so clear. How can I determine if it's the Holy Spirit convicting me or not?

 

[BigNorsk]

Well the basic way to know is to kind of examine yourself as you go. The Christian is not controlled by condemnation and the law, he is controlled by the love of God which fills him.

If you are considering something, as long as you are acting out of love, you will be fine.

With your condition, you probably cannot tell the condemnation of the law from the condemnation of your own mind.

If guilt and condemnation is controlling you, I would suggest turning from that to being controlled by love. It's the difference between positive and negative control. Many think Christianity is some terrible burden caused by lots of rules and laws. But the Christian is actually free to do as he wants, because he is a new creation God's love fills him to control him and so if he acts through Christian love, he truly does what is good and right.

So the basic answer is to be controlled by love.

Easy for me to say,

Marv

 

[artybloke]

So the basic answer is to be controlled by love.

I'd agree with this, with the proviso that however much you'd like to be absolutely sure that what you do, it's probably impossible. I'm reminded of something Yeats said: "The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passionate intensity." Uncertainty, doubt about whether we are right or not, is a good way of ensuring that we don't crash to the ground through hubris.

And it also shows you care about the impact of your actions: people who are absolutely certain all the time are dangerous people to have around. They go blundering in without thinking.

 

[Alphadux]

I'd agree with this, with the proviso that however much you'd like to be absolutely sure that what you do, it's probably impossible. I'm reminded of something Yeats said: "The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passionate intensity." Uncertainty, doubt about whether we are right or not, is a good way of ensuring that we don't crash to the ground through hubris.

And it also shows you care about the impact of your actions: people who are absolutely certain all the time are dangerous people to have around. They go blundering in without thinking.

But we can't doubt. Paul says that if we doubt then we are sinning because "whatever is not of faith is sin".

 

[neunown]

Maybe, but it's not always that clear.

what verses or topic arent clear to you?

 

[Alphadux]

The main issue is music.

 

[neunown]

The main issue is music.

the psalms are very musical; music is in the bible

 

[Alphadux]

the psalms are very musical; music is in the bible

Ah, but it's the kind of music I speak of. What kind of music is acceptable to God?

 

[neunown]

Ah, but it's the kind of music I speak of. What kind of music is acceptable to God?

music which glorifies god