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Submitting to Husband, D/S?

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KJVisTruth

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Recently, my SO and I were reading the bible about submitting, the roles of the wife and the husband, and we noticed this was alot like a dom/sub relationship. Please note: d/s has nothing to do with sadism. Wondering if you noticed that too, if you have any thoughts or opinions. Do you practice d/s? (no need to reply to that last question but feel free if you want to)

God bless. =)
 
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BigNorsk

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Every one of us, man and woman is to submit to Christ. The submission of the woman to the man is supposed to be like we, his church, submit to Jesus, and this is supposed to be in the context of the man loving his wife as Christ loves the church.

The whole thing doesn't fit what most people think of when one says dominate/submissive.

Marv
 
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NiteClerk

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In my household my wife does submit to me. In real life she makes about 95% of the decisions because
1.) I don't want to micro-manage the details.
2.) She takes pride in the organization / arrangement of the house.
3.) We agree on most things. (Except for the artwork by drunken French painters in the living room. :eek: )

As Head of Household I hold veto power and ultimate responsibility for the house. But I don't stomp around issuing orders. It's rare that I make a decision without at least seeing what she thinks.

IMHO. If you practice Biblical submission and also bedroom d/s then it's important to separate the two. The latter should be left as a private role playing activity.
 
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WolfGate

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I don't think it's like dom/sub at all. Not one single bit.

In order for the husband to love his wife as Christ loved the church, he cannot be domineering. He has to be serving. He has to be listening to and working for the best interest of the wife before his own. He has make a decision she disagrees with only when much prayer and discussion has lead to a point where the two feel the right course, in the best interest of the two, are in different directions.

And in most marriages, if that happens more than a very few times in a lifetime of marriage, the man isn't properly fulfilling his role.

No, they're not the same at all.
 
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synger

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He has to be listening to and working for the best interest of the wife before his own.


In a "good" D/s relationship (according to the people I know in the BDSM scene), that is exactly how a Dom should be. He has more responsibility, not just to his own pleasure, but to ensure that he is leading strongly without demanding too much, that he is pushing boundaries with gentleness and concern, and that he is above all things cognizant of the physical safety and mental state of his submissive. It's a demanding job, if you're going to do it right. When a submissive submits, she is giving herself utterly. T hat is a HUGE responsibility. Doms who just "play" at it don't get it, and shouldn't try a full-time D/s relationship. yeah, D/s games can be fun in the bedroom and can spice up your love life. But a full-time D/s relationship goes way beyond sex.

In many ways, I think the OP is right. It is much like the Biblical idea of male headship of the family. It's a BIG job -- a lot more responsibility and love and discernment is required of a leader-husband than of your normal "equal partnership" husband. But by leading, you allow your wife the freedom to submit herself more fully.. and that is an amazing, loving gift to be unleashed in a relationship.

My husband never liked BDSM, though he gave it a try once or twice because he knew it resonated with me. Knowing how it upsets him, I no longer ask it of him. And while we do not play those games nor live that lifestyle, I have many friends who do. As I've studied the Biblical command for a submissive household -- him to God and me to him -- I've come to the same conclusion as the OP. It is much the same, emotionally, as what I've seen in D/s relationships.

However, we have soemthign they do not. Both husband and wife submit ourselves to God's leading. There is safety in that far beyond anything you could have in a non-Christian relationship. BDSM treads on very dangerous ground, emotionally, and great damage can be done if one is not an excellent communicator and very careful. In Christian submission, however, we have a model of obedience to follow in Christ, and the ever-daunting Proverbs 31 Woman as an example of activeness. She is scary-efficient.. but she is still submissive to her husband. It's much more fulfilling, liberating, and challenging to be a submissive Christian wife than I ever found as a part-time sexual submissive.
 
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SnowLover

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True D/s relationships are some of the most dedicated and loving relationships i have ever witnessed.

When people think of D/s they always group it with BDSM. Which is usually very far from the truth. Most times it is two ppl who are truly dedicated to each other on a very high level. If more people took some tips from them. there would be some decrease in the divorce rate i think.
 
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~RENEE~

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I don't think it's the same at allthe husband being the head is not a domination type of relationship. It is the head of the house is the one that is responsible for everything that happens at home. Women are to subject themselves to their husbands as to Christ. Christ is not a dominator. He is a server.
 
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SnowLover

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I don't think it's the same at allthe husband being the head is not a domination type of relationship. It is the head of the house is the one that is responsible for everything that happens at home. Women are to subject themselves to their husbands as to Christ. Christ is not a dominator. He is a server.

explaining a D/s relationship is kinda hard. and really every couple has there own way. But the submissive is in no way a slave and actually alot of times its the other way around. A good sub has her dom wrapped around her finger. lol
 
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Cordy

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I do not see similarities between the relationship of husband and wife and that of “dom” and “sub”. The two actually seem incompatible:

1 Corinthians 7:4 said:
The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.

Marriage is clearly not about one person to dominating, and the other submitting. That is not only contrary to the concept of mutually giving detailed for married couples, but also contrary to the attitude we should hold as Christians in general. We, male or female, should not seek to dominate over our family in Christ, but all of us should strive to submit to each other.
 
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KJVisTruth

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I do not see similarities between the relationship of husband and wife and that of “dom” and “sub”. The two actually seem incompatible:



Marriage is clearly not about one person to dominating, and the other submitting. That is not only contrary to the concept of mutually giving detailed for married couples, but also contrary to the attitude we should hold as Christians in general. We, male or female, should not seek to dominate over our family in Christ, but all of us should strive to submit to each other.
Well, yeah.. in the d/s (even bdsm) circles, roles can be reversed, and that is called being a "switch."
 
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Cordy

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Well, yeah.. in the d/s (even bdsm) circles, roles can be reversed, and that is called being a "switch."
I don’t understand what difference it makes. No matter who is “dom” or “sub”, the strange power relationship exists – whether they switch these roles are not.

I am certainly not an expert in BDSM, but is it not merely sexual behavioural "games" etc.? If that is the case, I think it is, well, creepy to apply the Bible to games like that.
 
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Dorf

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I always thought of it as the bible saying that somebody has to be in charge and be the final SAY SO on matters concerning the family. Not that a wife does not have a say because she does and should always be taken into consideration and her opinion weighed. But it is the head of household, the husband, according to the bible who is supposed to be the spiritual leader and it is his resposibility to see if the matter being discussed is in agreement to what the bible says. And after compareing the issue to the bible it is his resposibility to say this is it, matter closed. Thus the wife submitting to her husbands decision. The same applies to us with Christ. The bible says this is the way you handle this situation and we are to follow the Word of God spoken to us in the bible. We may not always like it but we submit to God and at the same time put our faith and trust in Him to lead us and guide us in matters that we need help with.
 
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KJVisTruth

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Mrs. Enigma

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Recently, my SO and I were reading the bible about submitting, the roles of the wife and the husband, and we noticed this was alot like a dom/sub relationship. Please note: d/s has nothing to do with sadism. Wondering if you noticed that too, if you have any thoughts or opinions. Do you practice d/s? (no need to reply to that last question but feel free if you want to)

God bless. =)


My husband and I practice submission, and my hubby very rarely will send me to bed, or tell me to be quiet etc. He does not hurt me, and everything he does is out of love etc. He does not spank me etc.
He is the head, boss, one in charge etc.

He likes to hear my thoughts and feelings though, and does not have a controlling personality.
He is my lord, as Sarah referred to Abraham, and I try to obey him like Christ.
 
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KJVisTruth

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My husband and I practice submission, and my hubby very rarely will send me to bed, or tell me to be quiet etc. He does not hurt me, and everything he does is out of love etc. He does not spank me etc.
He is the head, boss, one in charge etc.

He likes to hear my thoughts and feelings though, and does not have a controlling personality.
He is my lord, as Sarah referred to Abraham, and I try to obey him like Christ.
Very cool. Do you have children, do they witness this?
 
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biblethumpa

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Very very interesting thread! I'll try my best not to offend anyone here, and if I do, that certainly is not my intention!
Yes, I have seen very many similarities between D/s and male / female roles as defined in the Bible. In fact, I think that they are different levels of the same concept. First off, I think a lot of folks might seem to think that D/s is the same thing as sadism / masochism. Not true. Totally different. D/s involves enjoying being dominant or submissive, while sado-masochism involves enjoying(?) the giving or receiving of pain. (Oe Kaay...). I think that some folks might need to review some other definitions here as well. "dominant" means "ruling, governing, or controlling; having or exerting authority or influence", while "submissive" means "inclined or ready to submit, unresistingly or humbly obedient". While we're here, I'll add "domineering" which means "inclined to rule arbitrarily or despotically; overbearing, tyrannical". Dominant is a trait that I posess and sometimes display, while domineering is a quality that I find no use for and avoid in any relationship. "domineering" reeks of selfishness and narcissism in the extreme, and I don't much care for folks like that.
If we read Ephesians, chapter 5, we note that there are commands given to both husbands and wives as to their roles in a marriage. Husbands are commanded to "Love your wives as Christ loved the church, giving himself for it.", while wives are commanded to "...Submit to your own husbands in all things, as to the Lord." I find these commands to be an affirmation of the way we were created, not an arbitrary role assignment. Genesis 3:16 states "...and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." Two things are stated here as fact; One, that women will desire their husbands, and two, that Husbands will take the leadership position. I see nothing in there about a choice in the matter of role assignment, either in Genesis or Ephesians; It's simply the way things are, and the way we were made, and things seem to work better, at least for me, when I go with GOD's flow.
When I think back to the times when a woman has wanted my attention, either in starting a relationship or later (sexually), i notice that she has tried to gain my attention through attraction (passive) rather that promotion (active). Women have dressed to elicit a response from me by wearing too tight pants, too short skirts, leaving one too many buttons undone, or posing provocatively in the hope that I would notice and act on what I've seen. Basically, they've set the stage and then waited to see what I will do; they have acted passively and hoped I'd respond actively. The instances have been rare that a woman has approached me and pushed to get things going. When my wife wants me sexually, she does the same things, but on a higher level. She will dress for show, and if she isn't dressed, she'll adopt a revealing and submissive pose, knowing that she will get my attention! She's basically telling me that her whole body is mine, and that she'd like me to take her and do with her whatever I will; She's asking me to act rather than pushing me down and doing what she wants to me! She knows that in submitting to me, she will receive pleasure, and that I will act lovingly and unselfishly to take care of her need. When she is very excited, she will direct me either verbally or with little pulls and tugs to get me to act for her pleasure. Rarely does she jump up and get aggressive (although that's fun sometimes, too!).
Most of the women that I've known prefer assertive, dominant, uninhibited males to those who are passive and reserved, and most men I know prefer quiet, gentle women to those who are aggressive or arrogant. Just an observation. No one is either passive or aggressive, dominant or submissive, outgoing or reserved all the time, and these qualities differ among individuals. Men are generally more assertive and women are generally more reserved. Generally.
D/s takes this natural role assignment to yet a higher level by defining these roles more precisely. The woman says "I will submit", and the man says "I will do what I think is best". Most of the women that I have known thoroughly enjoy being physically restrained during marital relations. When I've asked why, they have said that they enjoy not having to take responsibility for their own pleasure. They don't have to do anything except enjoy what's happening. Psychologically, I've been told that most women were raised with a very negative attitude regarding sex. They've been taught or told that "it's naughty" or "it's nasty" or "you'll be labeled as a bad girl" or "get a bad reputation" and so forth. All very negative connotations for something that was designed to be pleasureable. Then they get married and all that is supposed to be reversed literally overnight? That's a tall order. So it's really no surprise that most women carry a great deal of guilt about sex, and enjoying it even more so. Being restrained physically removes (mentally) any responsibility for her pleasure, since she cannot actively control the situation from that point on, freeing her to enjoy what's happening without inhibition. Much more enjoyable! It can be taken further than this, but it's still an acceptance of what role will be played by either partner.
The comparison I get to a christian lifestyle is this. All Christians are to submit to the leadership of Christ. He is dominant in our lives. We are the sheep, He is the shepherd. We are guided, directed, and cared for, while he cares for us, feeds us, and blesses us. He is the vinedresser, pruning things from us that are unproductive, and we are the vine, growing under submission to His loving care and (hopefully) producing fruit for His use. He is active in our relationship, we are passive. When I try to tell GOD how I think things should be or what I want, I'm usually met with disappointment, but when I lie back and open myself to His love and care and submit myself to His rules and directions for my life, things work out wonderfully! Surprised? I thought not. Neither relationship has anything to do with pain or combative intentions, but both relationships involve submission (acceptance of what is) and dominance (leadership and action). I wouldn't want it any other way.
 
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KJVisTruth

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biblethumpa, I applaud you. Well put. D/S is not always about the physical, sensual part of the relationship... rather more like spiritual AND sensual.

Quick question for you: If a Christian couple practices submissiveness in their lives, BUT not in their bedroom, arent they still falling short?
 
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biblethumpa

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I wouldn't want to say that anyone was falling short because I have many areas in my own life that aren't nearly as godly as I'd like them to be. Far be it from me to criticize anyone but my own self. I think I might have a few more examples from my past that might illustrate things a little, though.

My current wife had a really rough childhood in the area of sex, and a tough time with previous marriages to drunks and layabouts. We won't go into details, but she has told me on a number of occasions that she will never "submit" to any man ever again. I've tried to tell her that it's a biblical command that she does so, and tried to explain the differences between submission and slavery, all to no avail. Still, she seems to know what I need as her husband, and while she would never admit to submitting, that's exactly what she does every time we make love. She likes who I am and what I do, and hasn't seen any need to complain at all! It kinda reminds me of the bible story of the two brothers who were commanded by their father to perform a certain task. One says "I will", and then doesn't, while the other son says "I won't" and then later has a change of heart and does as he was asked. Who really did the will of his Father? Lip service doesn't get the job done. I don't really care whether she likes to play D/s or not, the fact of the matter is that she does definitely submit as demonstrated by her actions. She has never denied my need, never had a headache, always enjoys my "inventive" nature, and usually wants to "play" more than I do (Not that I'd ever deny my duties as her loving husband, mind you).

I have been married more than once, and in previous marriages, my wife has not submitted at all. She has told me what we will and will not do, used sex as a weapon and a threat, and basically denied my need at her whim as a tool to manipulate me into doing whatever she wanted done, or not, as may have been the case. Those marriages are history. Not that I didn't try to fix things, or that I didn't have my un-cooperative part to play, but those marriages in which I've been submissive and my wife has been dominant, especially in regard to marital relations, have ended. The one thing that all my failed marriages have in common is that I was there, so I really don't want to criticize anyone elses' idea of marital bliss. I have a feeling that many of my failed relationships could have been saved if I had just put my foot down earlier in the relationship when needed. Instead, I let myself get run over and railroaded into spending money we didn't have on things we didn't need and denied my own better judgement in material matters as well as physical desires (imagine feeling guilty for wanting your own wife!) to please her and keep the nagging down to a dull roar. I't has taken me a long time to grow the backbone that some men seem to have been born with, but I feel much better about myself, and I can see my current marriage lasting hopefully 'til death do us part. I do feel sorry for people who tell me that their wife hates sex, or for women who tell me that they" give their husband some" whenever they (the wives) feel like it, usually three times per month or some other such starvation diet. That tells me that they are actually refusing to submit, and that they prefer to dominate, and more often than not, that they have a great deal of unresolved resentment and strife in their marriage.

My wife handles the books for her company, and is very good at it. While I am certainly capable of managing our finances, I would be an idiot to demand that she relinquish the checkbook simply because "I'm the man". GOD gave her to me as a partner and helpmate, and if she's better at something involving the two of us, then I like to think I'm smart enought to let her do it! She always asks before making major purchases or sending off bills, discussing options and letting me know wherever we could be doing better, and I like that very much! It tells me that she has our best interests at heart, as I do, and isn't just running things to suit herself. I like to cook when I can, and seem to understand spices and recipes a little better that she does, so why would I demand that she cook, just because she's the woman? We compliment each other very well, and I'm glad that GOD decided to put us together.
 
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