Submission and obedience.

[bèlla]

Yes, but your comment seemed to invalidate her testimony. You brushed aside the whole notion of headship, claiming no one knows what goes on behind closed doors.

I explained my intentions in the previous post. If you believe otherwise that's okay.

~Bella

 

[Saint Steven]

I explained my intentions in the previous post. If you believe otherwise that's okay.

~Bella

Following your lead, I guess we will never know.

 

[bèlla]

Following your lead, I guess we will never know.

You must apply wisdom and discrimination in the manner you feel is appropriate. I'm not offended if we differ. What can I do if you don't believe me? I can't twist your arm.

~Bella

 

[Junia]

Why should submission and obedience be controversial? The answer is simple. Man's very nature rebels at the thought of being in submission and in obedience. The fall of man came about because of Adam's disobedience and man has been in revolt against God's authority ever since.

Many people object to the principle of men being head of the household. It's not just women who object, many men also think it wrong. Yet it is plainly God's order. Joyce Meyer has to be one of the most successful Christian women on the planet. She teaches women to submit to their husbands. God has honoured her in that.

Submission is not domination. Husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the church. Preaching a sermon on love then beating up your wife (verbally or physically) is hypocrisy of the highest order. Lord Jesus said that the way we treat believers is the way we are treating Him.

Submission is a safety net. If the husband messes up, God holds him responsible, not the wife. If you want the perfect example of submission and obedience, you know where to look. He is now King of Kings and Lord of Lords, highly exalted with the name above all names.

God requires submission and obedience for very good reasons. One reason is quite simple. It goes against the self-centred egotistical nature that we inherit from Adam.

If we want to make real progress in the Christian life, we should be seeking grace to know God's will, to do God's will and in a manner that is submissive, not sullen and resentful. To obey is indeed better than sacrifice.

Thank you. i dont understnd though why a wife has to stay in the marriage if she is being verbally or physically abused? even if the children are also being abused or witnessing it?? so why can't wife leave? or husband leave if he is the victim?

i just struggle with the idea that divorce is a sin even in extremem cases like this???

PS- glad you also like Joyce Meyer. i love her. found her books very helpful

 

[Junia]

i was told on another thread on CF that we have to endure suffering in a marriage so we have to endure abuse as Jesus would have done. well i was a child growing up in an abusive home, our church forbade divorce. except there were cases where a hausband was molesting his children and THEN it was ok to separate for the children's safety.

but my mum wasnt allowed to leave because the abuse was only physical and verbal?? what kind of oving God holds a double standard like that? i have decide to never marry because it means if i get abused in the marriage in any way, i cannot leave him. also many christian wives are not alowed access to bank account and are sometimes forbade from seeing their family or friends? i am a born again christian but i dont want a christian marriage for this reason. i want to hve some freedom and indeopendence in the marriage and be allowed to work if i want to etc

 

[Junia]

Submission isn't a safety net, because if the husband does the wrong thing, and is abusive in any way, it leaves you with no recourse. You are trapped in that abusive dynamic.

It has been well documented that men who believe they have a God-given authority over women are more likely to commit domestic violence than men who see women as their equals. It's a dangerous doctrine.

God alone is safe to submit to totally. For humans, although we are called to a level of mutual submission, there must always be boundaries and safeguards.

my father was like that. a born again spirit filled christian who sued Bible to justify his cruelty. i only recently came back to God after years of not wanting anything to do with Him, even after being saved back in 2006 until recently i had a hatred of many church teachings. i forgive my dad but God has been harder to forgive.

 

[Junia]

used, not sued, sorry

 

[Junia]

On another thread a member is admonishing others for failing to remain in abusive relationships and enduring the suffering as mandated by God.

There are unhealthy people who are incapable of directing others without causing harm. Acknowledging its existence isn’t wrong.

~Bella

wow. there is another thread today which has gone the same. something in the water maybe?

 

[Junia]

I didn’t attack her. I like her and read her books. But I don’t know her personally. There’s an old adage which says the same. We don’t know how anyone behaves behind closed doors. That’s why the “Sunday Christian” comment is popular.

~Bella

that is a good point. my friends and people in the churches thought the sun shone out of my father's left elbow. to be fair he was gifted in minsitry and very good towards people in the community. he lovinglt kindly helped many wounded people or those who were demonised.... just not so good with children and wives, i guess.

 

[com7fy8]

Submission is a safety net. If the husband messes up, God holds him responsible, not the wife.

But when Eve got Adam to eat the forbidden fruit, both were punished and the serpent was punished.

So, I would say if a Christian lady is submissive to a wrong guy, this means only if she is doing what is acceptable to God.

And their example can help any disobedient man >

"Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear." (1 Peter 3:1-2)

So, in case a husband is wrong somehow, I see here how God is saying He can use the good example of Christian housewives to win any disobedient person. So, I conclude that God is not going to have a Christian lady doing what is wrong.

And > "without a word" > she has the greater power than a child of Satan does, to say the least.

This is because of all which is possible with God who is good. So, this does not mean some bad thing. God's grace in her is almighty, able to spread God's effect to his character to change him to God's love >

"from the power of Satan to God" (in Acts 26:18).

1 Peter 3:4 shows how God's grace is almighty in her. So, even if he does not change but gets worse, still she is benefiting from how the beauty of God's love in her is "incorruptible" > so she is not corrupted by fear and worry and hurry and boredom and loneliness and bitterness and unforgiveness and frustration and the abuse of lusts for pleasure and excitement.

The real abuse is worry which is such a pathological lier and abuser. And stress is very degrading; but God's peace is almighty to keep our "hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (please feed on Philippians 4:6-7)

So, an obedient woman is first concerned about obeying how God is able to have her character become like this. And He gives her personal guiding about how to deal with a disobedient husband. In case he is dangerous, God can guide her about this, of course. Jesus didn't stay around people where they were getting ready to kill Him, in a number of situations.

 

[Junia]

But when Eve got Adam to eat the forbidden fruit, both were punished and the serpent was punished.

So, I would say if a Christian lady is submissive to a wrong guy, this means only if she is doing what is acceptable to God.

And their example can help any disobedient man >

"Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear." (1 Peter 3:1-2)

So, in case a husband is wrong somehow, I see here how God is saying He can use the good example of Christian housewives to win any disobedient person. So, I conclude that God is not going to have a Christian lady doing what is wrong.

And > "without a word" > she has the greater power than a child of Satan does, to say the least.

This is because of all which is possible with God who is good. So, this does not mean some bad thing. God's grace in her is almighty, able to spread God's effect to his character to change him to God's love >

"from the power of Satan to God" (in Acts 26:18).

1 Peter 3:4 shows how God's grace is almighty in her. So, even if he does not change but gets worse, still she is benefiting from how the beauty of God's love in her is "incorruptible" > so she is not corrupted by fear and worry and hurry and boredom and loneliness and bitterness and unforgiveness and frustration and the abuse of lusts for pleasure and excitement.

The real abuse is worry which is such a pathological lier and abuser. And stress is very degrading; but God's peace is almighty to keep our "hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (please feed on Philippians 4:6-7)

So, an obedient woman is first concerned about obeying how God is able to have her character become like this. And He gives her personal guiding about how to deal with a disobedient husband. In case he is dangerous, God can guide her about this, of course. Jesus didn't stay around people where they were getting ready to kill Him, in a number of situations.

So my mother should maybe have been more submissive to my fatehr and he would not have hurt her as much? maybe. i think that unstable people prone to violence should not marry. mental hygine examinations would be good idea- only certain healthy neurotypical people should be allowed to get marriage licence. i would legislate for that. and also sterilisation for people who are prone to violelence, alcohilsm etc

 

[Junia]

But when Eve got Adam to eat the forbidden fruit, both were punished and the serpent was punished.

So, I would say if a Christian lady is submissive to a wrong guy, this means only if she is doing what is acceptable to God.

And their example can help any disobedient man >

"Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear." (1 Peter 3:1-2)

So, in case a husband is wrong somehow, I see here how God is saying He can use the good example of Christian housewives to win any disobedient person. So, I conclude that God is not going to have a Christian lady doing what is wrong.

And > "without a word" > she has the greater power than a child of Satan does, to say the least.

This is because of all which is possible with God who is good. So, this does not mean some bad thing. God's grace in her is almighty, able to spread God's effect to his character to change him to God's love >

"from the power of Satan to God" (in Acts 26:18).

1 Peter 3:4 shows how God's grace is almighty in her. So, even if he does not change but gets worse, still she is benefiting from how the beauty of God's love in her is "incorruptible" > so she is not corrupted by fear and worry and hurry and boredom and loneliness and bitterness and unforgiveness and frustration and the abuse of lusts for pleasure and excitement.

The real abuse is worry which is such a pathological lier and abuser. And stress is very degrading; but God's peace is almighty to keep our "hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (please feed on Philippians 4:6-7)

So, an obedient woman is first concerned about obeying how God is able to have her character become like this. And He gives her personal guiding about how to deal with a disobedient husband. In case he is dangerous, God can guide her about this, of course. Jesus didn't stay around people where they were getting ready to kill Him, in a number of situations.

sometimes th eends have to justify the means. my mother needed money for new clothes so if she wasnt allowed it she would sneak around to get it. same with us kids- if we needed medical treatment (certain kinds were banned in our house due to my fathers faith) we had to sneak around to get it. things like psychotherapy or mental health drugs were forbidden. so we had to disobey him to get what we needed. not all disobedience is sin in a mariage

 

[bèlla]

wow. there is another thread today which has gone the same. something in the water maybe?

That's the one I'm referencing.

~Bella

 

[Junia]

That's the one I'm referencing.

~Bella

i dont think that one wills stay open. they will delete it i expect. usually that is whta happens when people are too open and raw about their own experiences-.

 

[bèlla]

my father was like that. a born again spirit filled christian who sued Bible to justify his cruelty. i only recently came back to God after years of not wanting anything to do with Him, even after being saved back in 2006 until recently i had a hatred of many church teachings. i forgive my dad but God has been harder to forgive.

God illustrates the problem with judging a book by its cover in David's anointing. Samuel's assumptions were incorrect. We treat external displays as facts but God looks at the heart.

As you've noted, their interaction with your father was limited. They didn't encounter the behaviors you experienced at home. But that doesn't mean he didn't show traces of its existence to others. A discriminating person would have seen through the guise.

When I asked the Lord why in the past He sent me to Job.

~Bella

 

[bèlla]

i dont think that one wills stay open. they will delete it i expect. usually that is whta happens when people are too open and raw about their own experiences-.

Threads are closed for many reasons. If the discussion digresses to a point where decorum leaves or the comments are off-topic that usually warrants a warning or closure if the behavior continues.

Your honesty wouldn't be the catalyst for its demise.

~Bella

 

[Junia]

Threads are closed for many reasons. If the discussion digresses to a point where decorum leaves or the comments are off-topic that usually warrants a warning or closure if the behavior continues.

Your honesty wouldn't be the catalyst for its demise.

~Bella

`i think it was not decorous but hten i also think people are vey sensitive these days and tend to take offence very easiy. i di call out some false teachers on there by name, but not sure whether CF is ok wit that or not

 

[bèlla]

`i think it was not decorous but hten i also think people are vey sensitive these days and tend to take offence very easiy. i di call out some false teachers on there by name, but not sure whether CF is ok wit that or not

Offense inhibits transparency. You'll have difficulty sharing if the person is excitable and reacts negatively to your admissions. Healthy discourse includes varying degrees of difference. Few agree on everything.

~Bella

 

[Junia]

Offense inhibits transparency. You'll have difficulty sharing if the person is excitable and reacts negatively to your admissions. Healthy discourse includes varying degrees of difference. Few agree on everything.

~Bella

i am thinking of leaving CF. the views on here are very traditional and old fashioned and the kind of thing i tried to leave behind

 

[Junia]

well, am so done twith this dinosaur way of thinking that a woman must never leave a bad marriage. i advise any abused woman to leave. i dont feel any regret or sin for doing so.....am happy to suport womens rights, domestic violence charities etc proud christian feminsit, me