Struggling With Sin

[Gideons300]

What do you mean by this?
Are you saying temptation is sin?

I am saying this. As a man thinketh in his heart, so IS he.

Do we believe we are new creatures and that the sin that once dominated us no longer has any power over us, or do we believe we are still the same in the inside, at our core? Temptation is not sin. So how do we block it from becoming sin? We can either try to defeat it from the outside of the cup inward, or we can take our stand that we are NOT in the flesh any longer, reckon it dead, not dying, and believe that we owe it nothing.

In the first scenario, our heart is accepting that the temptation is indeed us, our heart, and that our nature really is not new at all, OR we can stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us (past tense) free.

The real question is this. What does our heart long for? Do we want to debate temptation versus sin, or do we long to stop sinning in every area of our lives? One is the path of religion, one is the path that leads deeper into our Father and His will for us.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[cuja1]

So here is the question we need to ask ourselves. Do we see this working in older saints, ones that have been Christians for twenty, thirty, or even forty or more years? Do we see them finally being able to walk in holiness and righteousness, and able to obey no matter how tempted they are? Do they now want to, and walk in full obedience?

God says that He will not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist. So, if that never translates into actual victory for His children, do we not see that something is amiss?

Look, we can either say, "Well God must not want me holy yet because He has given me no desire for it" and get quite comfortable living in Romans 7, or we can implore our God "Oh, Lord, you said you would cause me to walk in obedience, and that it is your will for me to know how to walk in holiness and righteousness. But God, I have not walked in such a place and long to be delivered from my old nature that refuses to bow the knee to you in all things. Change me, Lord! Deliver me from the wretched old nature I cannot seem to escape."

It is our choice. Which one pleases God? Which one will illicit a response from Him? We are to seek Him AND His righteousness with all of our hearts. To try to say that God must not care because He has not made me want victory is putting our guilt onto God instead, saying in essence "It is your fault."

It is not God's fault. He said he has already given us everything we need pertaining to life and godliness. It is called the armor of God. It is time we put it on.

Blessings,

Gideon

Maybe it is a journey, maybe we aren't able to conquer all our sins at one time.
Even Paul said he wasn't perfect yet

Philippians 3:12
12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

Who is perfect? There's something else going on here because you say everyone has everything they need to be perfect (if I understand you correctly) and yet no one, not even Paul has attained it. How should we understand that?

 

[cuja1]

I am saying this. As a man thinketh in his heart, so IS he.

Do we believe we are new creatures and that the sin that once dominated us no longer has any power over us, or do we believe we are still the same in the inside, at our core? Temptation is not sin. So how do we block it from becoming sin? We can either try to defeat it from the outside of the cup inward, or we can take our stand that we are NOT in the flesh any longer, reckon it dead, not dying, and believe that we owe it nothing.

In the first scenario, our heart is accepting that the temptation is indeed us, our heart, and that our nature really is not new at all, OR we can stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us (past tense) free.

The real question is this. What does our heart long for? Do we want to debate temptation versus sin, or do we long to stop sinning in every area of our lives? One is the path of religion, one is the path that leads deeper into our Father and His will for us.

Blessings,

Gideon

I don't think that thoughts are sins and the verse from Proverbs 23:7 doesn't prove it to be so:
7For as he thinks within himself, so he is. He says to you, "Eat and drink!" But his heart is not with you.

It's one thing to have a thought, it's another thing to dwell on it.
I believe that many evil thoughts come from the devil and all we can do is accept or reject them.
I believe that thoughts are temptations, dwelling on the thoughts is when they become sins. That is what we have control over.

 

[Gideons300]

Well I am glad you asked. The best way to deal with temptation is to try to remove that temptation. To go somewhere else, think about something else, do something else, ect.

Maybe a new thread so you can discuss sin?

Sister, I realize fully that you do not agree with where I am coming from. But this post was made by a brother asking for advice on how to not let his temptation become sin. So tell me, what do you advise him? Stay away from gay bars? Surround yourself with women only? Stay indoors?

This is why I am so burdened by the state of the church in these critical last days. We have nothing to tell a drug addict, or homosexual, or someone bound by pornography as to how to overcome. No battle plan. No armor. No weapons. At least none that work. But God is awakening us to the HOW of holiness. Some will awake and hunger for it, and some will not. We are all in the valley of decision, and a choice will be made, one way or another.

Blessings,

Gids

 

[cuja1]

Sister, I realize fully that you do not agree with where I am coming from. But this post was made by a brother asking for advice on how to not let his temptation become sin. So tell me, what do you advise him? Stay away from gay bars? Surround yourself with women only? Stay indoors?

This is why I am so burdened by the state of the church in these critical last days. We have nothing to tell a drug addict, or homosexual, or someone bound by pornography as to how to overcome. No battle plan. No armor. No weapons. At least none that work. But God is awakening us to the HOW of holiness. Some will awake and hunger for it, and some will not. We are all in the valley of decision, and a choice will be made, one way or another.

Blessings,

Gids

What worries me is that some people want to tell people with homosexual temptations that it is a sin to be tempted. What practical advice would you give them? Just because you haven't been tempted by something doesn't mean other people aren't. The Bible says practicing homosexuality is a sin, not being tempted to do so.

This guy is actively fighting his temptations and he doesn't need people telling him that he's wrong for having the temptation. He should be applauded for getting as far as he has.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Sister, I realize fully that you do not agree with where I am coming from. But this post was made by a brother asking for advice on how to not let his temptation become sin. So tell me, what do you advise him? Stay away from gay bars? Surround yourself with women only? Stay indoors?

This is why I am so burdened by the state of the church in these critical last days. We have nothing to tell a drug addict, or homosexual, or someone bound by pornography as to how to overcome. No battle plan. No armor. No weapons. At least none that work. But God is awakening us to the HOW of holiness. Some will awake and hunger for it, and some will not. We are all in the valley of decision, and a choice will be made, one way or another.

Blessings,

Gids

I've been following the thread and it seems that you are confusing the OP since what you write about sin, makes no sense in the context of temptation.

Since this thread is about temptation, again maybe a new thread on 'sin'.

 

[Gideons300]

I don't think that thoughts are sins and the verse from Proverbs 23:7 doesn't prove it to be so:
7For as he thinks within himself, so he is. He says to you, "Eat and drink!" But his heart is not with you.

It's one thing to have a thought, it's another thing to dwell on it.
I believe that many evil thoughts come from the devil and all we can do is accept or reject them.
I believe that thoughts are temptations, dwelling on the thoughts is when they become sins. That is what we have control over.

I agree with what you are saying. Now, however, that begs a question. How do you tell a man with homosexual tendancies, or a desire to look at porn, to not dwell on it? If we had a answer, would not there be a bunch of victorious believers, who have left lust, addictions, worldliness, jealousy, anger all behind?

Our defense in the present day church is to simply to not engage the enemy... to somehow hide from being tempted so that we do not "dwell on it". That is not a life of overcoming, but a life of avoiding battle altogether. But God has better for us, where we truly can overcome the world, the flesh and the devil..... not by avoidance..... but by faith!

Blessings,

Gids

 

[ToBeLoved]

What worries me is that some people want to tell people with homosexual temptations that it is a sin to be tempted. What practical advice would you give them? Just because you haven't been tempted by something doesn't mean other people aren't. The Bible says practicing homosexuality is a sin, not being tempted to do so.

This guy is actively fighting his temptations and he doesn't need people telling him that he's wrong for having the temptation. He should be applauded for getting as far as he has.

Yes, you are right. We are to 'lift' each other up, not tear each other down.

The other thing people do not need when struggling with temptation is for those who do not experience that temptation to minimize it.

Stay strong in Christ!

 

[ToBeLoved]

I agree with what you are saying. Now, however, that begs a question. How do you tell a man with homosexual tendancies, or a desire to look at porn, to not dwell on it? If we had a answer, would not there be a bunch of victorious believers, who have left lust, addictions, worldliness, jealousy, anger all behind?

Our defense in the present day church is to simply to not engage the enemy... to somehow hide from being tempted so that we do not "dwell on it". That is not a life of overcoming, but a life of avoiding battle altogether. But God has better for us, where we truly can overcome the world, the flesh and the devil..... not by avoidance..... but by faith!

Blessings,

Gids

As the Word says, where our heart is our mind will follow. When our hearts are fixed on Jesus Christ and the things of above, we are overcomers. Just because someone falls occasionally does not make them any less of an overcomer in Christ.

We are much more than any sin or temptation.

Are we strong in Christ or not?

 

[ToBeLoved]

dup

 

[cuja1]

I agree with what you are saying. Now, however, that begs a question. How do you tell a man with homosexual tendancies, or a desire to look at porn, to not dwell on it? If we had a answer, would not there be a bunch of victorious believers, who have left lust, addictions, worldliness, jealousy, anger all behind?

Our defense in the present day church is to simply to not engage the enemy... to somehow hide from being tempted so that we do not "dwell on it". That is not a life of overcoming, but a life of avoiding battle altogether. But God has better for us, where we truly can overcome the world, the flesh and the devil..... not by avoidance..... but by faith!

Blessings,

Gids

Here's a little personal info, maybe too much info but I'll tell you anyway. I saw a counselor about 3 months ago for 2 months. I have been hating my job and miserable. It has been leading to severe depression. Her advice continued to be, stop being negative about your job. I finally got frustrated and said "I don't know how". Finally she gave me some techniques on focusing on other things; ways to divert my attention to things that were not negative. It was great advice, but it didn't work.

Unfortunately I'm the type of person that has to figure things out on my own. I'm very unteachable. Fortunately, I am figuring out some of my own methods for dealing with this. I have to believe that it is God showing me the way, slowly but surely.

It seems like you want everyone to be brave fearless warriors for God right now, and there is probably nothing wrong with that. But maybe, and I am only offering this as a possibility, maybe God has other plans.

Maybe His plans are for us to slowly deal with the problems that confront us now. Each one of us has our own individual issues and defects, and maybe God isn't demanding that we all be like Daniel in the lions den, or Peter, or Paul, right now. Maybe He's lovingly and gently showing us the way. Maybe that's how God works, and as long as we are moving in the right direction, God is happy with that.

 

[Gideons300]

What worries me is that some people want to tell people with homosexual temptations that it is a sin to be tempted. What practical advice would you give them? Just because you haven't been tempted by something doesn't mean other people aren't. The Bible says practicing homosexuality is a sin, not being tempted to do so.

This guy is actively fighting his temptations and he doesn't need people telling him that he's wrong for having the temptation. He should be applauded for getting as far as he has.

It should be clear, I hope, that I am not one of those people. And as to the OP, I do indeed applaud him. He wants to be different. God will move mountains to get such a man the help he cries out for.

The problem is, with our more socially acceptable sins, what we consider "little sins", we rarely see the same hunger to be free of our flesh and how it manifests itself in our lives. If we have a propensity for being a gossip, or are jealous, or petty, would we too be applauded for our desire to be free or our sinful tendencies? Or, have we now become content with 'positional' holiness, caring not a wit if it ever really manifests itself in our lives?

Somehow, I fear we think because we see our own sins as small ones, that we must be closer to being free than the man who struggles with major sins....those the Bible calls 'sins that go before us'. But such thinking is error. One does not grow from being fleshly to being an overcomer. Forty years is not long enough, not even close.

We are all called to put off the old fleshly nature by a radical act of faith alone, and hold up our shields of faith that we are new creatures, and that sin that once ruled over us, rules us no more. This is the good fight of faith we are called to. This is what God is awakening us to in these last days.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[cuja1]

Yes, you are right. We are to 'lift' each other up, not tear each other down.

The other thing people do not need when struggling with temptation is for those who do not experience that temptation to minimize it.

Stay strong in Christ!

Thanks ToBeLoved

 

[cuja1]

It should be clear, I hope, that I am not one of those people. And as to the OP, I do indeed applaud him. He wants to be different. God will move mountains to get such a man the help he cries out for.

The problem is, with our more socially acceptable sins, what we consider "little sins", we rarely see the same hunger to be free of our flesh and how it manifests itself in our lives. If we have a propensity for being a gossip, or are jealous, or petty, would we too be applauded for our desire to be free or our sinful tendencies? Or, have we now become content with 'positional' holiness, caring not a wit if it ever really manifests itself in our lives?

Somehow, I fear we think because we see our own sins as small ones, that we must be closer to being free than the man who struggles with major sins....those the Bible calls 'sins that go before us'. But such thinking is error. One does not grow from being fleshly to being an overcomer. Forty years is not long enough, not even close.

We are all called to put off the old fleshly nature by a radical act of faith alone, and hold up our shields of faith that we are new creatures, and that sin that once ruled over us, rules us no more. This is the good fight of faith we are called to. This is what God is awakening us to in these last days.

Blessings,

Gideon

I agree

 

[Gideons300]

I've been following the thread and it seems that you are confusing the OP since what you write about sin, makes no sense in the context of temptation.

Since this thread is about temptation, again maybe a new thread on 'sin'.

So let me ask you plainly. What is your advice to the OP as to how not to let the temptation lead to disobedience? That is what he was asking for. The church has plenty of 'theoretical" advice on how to do so, but when asked if it really works in our lives as believers, can we stare to bound back in their eyes and say with a straight face "Yes, this is how you stop letting temptation ever become more... guaranteed. I know because it works in my life."

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Svt4Him]

So for clarity, how then does someone bring every thought into the obedience of Christ? Is it even possible? If the darkness is still in us, ruling us at times, wanting to sin, and we accept that it is a part of us still, and not now satan whom we need to resist, steadfast in the faith that we bow owe the flesh nothing, how do we ever truly 'make our tree good'? Is there a way to purify our hearts by faith? Can we actually be caused to walk obediently? Because if a part of us as new creatures still wants to sin, then real holiness, and possessing our vessels in sanctification and honor, is nothing but an unattainable goal.

Blessings,

Gids

We are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.

If you stick to the first one and ignore the other two, you lose your fear of God. We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, seems to me that that answers your question right there. How do we bring our thoughts into obedience? Well we can renew our mind and seek God. That seems to be the "being saved" part. We don't always walk in the Spirit, we are flesh, and we try, like Paul, to buffet our body to win the race (will be saved).

 

[cuja1]

So let me ask you plainly. What is your advice to the OP as to how not to let the temptation lead to disobedience? That is what he was asking for. The church has plenty of 'theoretical" advice on how to do so, but when asked if it really works in our lives as believers, can we stare to bound back in their eyes and say with a straight face "Yes, this is how you stop letting temptation ever become more... guaranteed. I know because it works in my life."

Blessings,

Gideon

My advice would be continue to resist the temptation, and look for ways that God is providing to lead a more wholesome and satisfying life. Look for anything that will help. I think for each individual it is different as God made everyone unique. It may take years for him to find his answer. Continue to pray as it is with God's power that we are able to overcome. Don't let set backs discourage you and give it time.

 

[Gideons300]

We are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.

If you stick to the first one and ignore the other two, you lose your fear of God. We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, seems to me that that answers your question right there. How do we bring our thoughts into obedience? Well we can renew our mind and seek God. That seems to be the "being saved" part. We don't always walk in the Spirit, we are flesh, and we try, like Paul, to buffet our body to win the race (will be saved).

So my question is, do we see this principle working in the church? Are the elder Christians less and less worldly, more holy, more victorious over self and sin? It all sounds nice in theory, but how long does one wait to see things that once dominated him under his feet where they belong?

Do we understand that multitudes have left the body of Christ because no one is telling them HOW to walk as overcomers? Somehow, it is just supposed to happen. When it doesn't, and after many fruitless years they are still wandering in the wilderness, not enjoying life as an overcomer in the promised land, they simply drift away. Our logic? We say they must not have ever been called to begin with.

In these last days, we are going to find more and more saints who are tired of defeat and compromise and a flesh that refuses to bow the knee to God, worn out of being healed only slightly, saying 'peace peace' when they are not walking in it. More and more, saints are wanting something that works when satan comes tempting, not tired clichés that keep us hanging on by the fingernails, promising g much but never delivering the goods, the power to say no to the enemy.

We are not to walk on the highway TO holiness, but the highway OF holiness. But until we want it more than our daily bread, I fear all will remain just as it is, and based upon what is coming at us on the horizon, what we have is simply not going to be enough.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[ToBeLoved]

We are not to walk on the highway TO holiness, but the highway OF holiness. But until we want it more than our daily bread, I fear all will remain just as it is, and based upon what is coming at us on the horizon, what we have is simply not going to be enough.

Blessings,
Gideon

The fact of the matter is, that being washed in the blood of Jesus Christ, we are enough. If Jesus says that He is our advocate and NO ONE can remove us from His right hand, then I'll have to say that you are wrong and do not know God's Word.

Please state verses to support your 'God's children are not enough' theory?

 

[Gideons300]

My advice would be continue to resist the temptation, and look for ways that God is providing to lead a more wholesome and satisfying life. Look for anything that will help. I think for each individual it is different as God made everyone unique. It may take years for him to find his answer. Continue to pray as it is with God's power that we are able to overcome. Don't let set backs discourage you and give it time.

So lets say the sin being dealt with is more hazardous to ones health. Suppose one is a heroin addict. Their sin is not a long gentle sash of silk tied to their foot, but a rusty iron ball on a three link chain cutting into their ankle. Is this the best advice we have for such a man? Shall we tell them to come worship with us, and sure, we will have them over for supper, all the while knowing they are prisoners of their sin?

What we do not see is that just because we have more socially acceptable sins, genteel ones, and the silken 'chain' is long and allows us much freedom in our cell, we are still as bound as the heroin addict if we are still in the flesh. And therein lies the root of our error. We are told that if we are in Christ, we are no longer in the flesh, and owe it nothing, and it is THAT faith that holds fast to that truth that will make us overcomers. But who has truly believed that report? We do not believe real holiness is even possible in this life, and so we say that raising the standard is 'discouraging' to struggling believers. I say that as a body, we have so lowered the expectations of what God will do inside us, causing us to walk as overcomers, that we are already discouraged. Our boat is already filled with water. Thus any movement that threatens the status quo is viewed as discouraging and dangerous. We do not yet see that the ground we are resting on, content but without godliness infused into our nature, is sinking sand. It may look secure now, but the shaking is coming. We need to leave our leaking boat and walk out on the water to our master who bids us come.

Blessings,

Gideon