Strong Nuclear Force

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by Morat
As physical laws don't differentially reproduce, and aren't alive, I don't think anyone would consider the idea of them "evolving", at least in the Theory of Evolution sense. Nor does "evolved" in the more general sense (change over time) make sense, as the force in question has been around (although perhaps it was once unified) in it's current form since the Big Bang.

Well, being an evolutionist, how do you think they originated? Developed and changed overtime? Were present since before the BB? Only appeared a while ago?

You can't understand Evolution all that well if you're trying to apply it to cosmology and particle physics. Do you do heart surgery according to martial arts principles?

I don't do heart surgery.   But evolution does involve cosmology. I've heard people say, even, that the elements we have today originally were all hydrogen.

 

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by alexgb00

Sorry, Seebs, i didn't see your reply before i posted #11. But does science explain the origin of physical laws? Anybody know?

It doesn't try to.

It's a question of scope. If I'm studying an alleged murder, I don't need to solve the question of "how are guns made" or "who invented the revolver" to solve crimes - I just need to know the general properties of guns.

The Catholic Church learned this lesson. Once upon a time, they were pretty hostile to people who claimed that the earth orbited the sun. This has hurt the faith a lot; now, the Catholic Church carefully disclaims a teaching on scientific matters, observing that these are not part of the scope of Christian teaching. The Church, for instance, does not care whether you believe that life arose through evolution, as long as you believe that God creates a soul specially for each person.

Insofar as I care about scientific results, I'm quite happy to accept "we don't know how or why this happens" as a result some of the time.

 

[Morat]

They are jumping on you because you are using the term "evolved." Evolution deals with life-forms...however, since according to evolutionists, we are formed from star-dust...perhaps you could use evolution to discuss the formation of laws. It just isnt usually done.

 Only if you like your strawmen extra-crispy. Evolution deals with life-forms. Anything that is not a life form is not covered by evolution. That includes abiogenesis, stellar formation (which, I know, is often called "Stellar Evolution". This apparantly causes some people no end of confusion) , and the Big Bang.

 

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by alexgb00

Well, being an evolutionist, how do you think they originated? Developed and changed overtime? Were present since before the BB? Only appeared a while ago?

Speaking as one of the "evolutionists", I have very close to no opinion. I suspect these physical laws have been here as long as our universe has. I don't know if there have been other universes with other laws, or even are right now other universes with other laws.

I tend to assume that, somewhere back there, we get down to "and this is just how things are", whether that's because of chance, or inevitability, or because God did it.

 

[Morat]

Dude, you throw insults around like a baseball.  I thought you would have thicker skin that to be all whiney about my "blatant" insult. 

 

  tu quoue has never been a valid response, Souljah. Besides, don't you guys have a "turn the other cheek" philosophy?

  Nor have I ever said anything to you more derogatory than comments about your ignorance in certain fields.

  I certainly never called you a tool. I wonder if the Admins will choose to mention that violation.

Which way do you want it?  Speak nice, and be spoken nicely to...or be a tool and get treated like one.  Pick and stick to it.

   Another insult! How charming, Souljah. How Christian of you.

 

[alexgb00]

Guys, evolution doesn't mean animals changing. It is the principle of gradual change over time. The English language is an example of evolution that actually took place and is visible and evident. I'm not wrong in using "evolved" in refference to physics.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

LOL, you insulted me many times...I ran out of cheeks. When I complained about it, you said I was whiney. So, again, pick your poison.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

And again, I didn't know you were so thin-skinned. I assumed someone that dishes it out can take it. If not, sorry for insulting you...I was speaking openly.

 

[Morat]

Well, being an evolutionist, how do you think they originated?

 How should I know? I'm not a cosmologist, and even they view that stuff as cutting edge.

  I can explain the view theories I do understand enough of to pass on at a laymen's level, and I will cheerfully admit the tentativeness of them, especially given that they're missing several important pieces.

Developed and changed overtime? Were present since before the BB? Only appeared a while ago?

   The fundamental forces? They've been present since the Big Bang. They were unified at the moment of, and split apart during the first few minutes as energy densities dropped. That much is pretty well known.

I don't do heart surgery. <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif" border=0>&nbsp; But evolution <I>does</I> involve cosmology. I've heard people say, even, that the elements we have today originally were all hydrogen.

&nbsp; No, evolution does not involve cosmology. Feel free to find me a single biology textbook, or paper in say...Journal of Evolutionary Biology that discusses cosmology. Or heck, find me any research on cosmology by biologists, or biology by cosmologists.

&nbsp;

 

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by Morat
tu quoue has never been a valid response, Souljah. Besides, don't you guys have a "turn the other cheek" philosophy?

Nor have I ever said anything to you more derogatory than comments about your ignorance in certain fields.

I certainly never called you a tool. I wonder if the Admins will choose to mention that violation.

Another insult! How charming, Souljah. How Christian of you.

Let's all be nice, men. Let's talk like homo sapiens, not your distant ancestors.

PS -- Morat, turning the other cheek don't mean not standing up for other Christians.

 

[Morat]

&nbsp; Souljah, please quote me insulting you. Try to restrict yourself to something close to as blantant as your opening remarks to me in this thread: "Morat, don't be a tool".

&nbsp;&nbsp; I'll wait.

&nbsp;

 

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by s0uljah
LOL, you insulted me many times...I ran out of cheeks

&nbsp;&nbsp; That's a good one, man!

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Go read your own posts, the tone of them is completely derrogatory. I complained, and you said I was whining.

Besides, if you read, I didn't say you ARE a tool.&nbsp; I said, "don't be one," since I know you are capable of being a good person.

And there have been times when I said good post to you...

 

[alexgb00]

Originally posted by Morat
&nbsp; Souljah, please quote me insulting you. Try to restrict yourself to something close to as blantant as your opening remarks to me in this thread: "Morat, don't be a tool".

Friends! This thread is about the strong nuclear force, not insulting each other.

 

[Morat]

PS -- Morat, turning the other cheek don't mean not standing up for other Christians.

&nbsp; Blatant insults don't cut it here. They're against forum rules. We tolerate it from Nick, because it's about all he does, but I expect more from most people. Souljah included.

&nbsp; I have been harsh with Souljah, I have been irritated with Souljah, and I have even been blunt with Souljah. To date, I have not levied anything even close to that sort of accusation at him. If I have, I'll certainly apologize for them. The worst I can think of offhand is an accusation of willfull ignorance.

&nbsp;

 

[Morat]

Souljah: If you can't back it up, don't make the claim.

&nbsp;

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Morat-

I took offense to your treatment of alex. You seemed to be treating him like an idiot because he used "evolution" to talk about natural laws. You made a comment about martial arts and heart surgery, as if he was a little kid or something.

If you say that wasn't your intention and you were actually confused, then I retract my "insults" and apologize to you.

 

[Stormy]

I dont know about that, but have you read "The Science of God" alex? It mentions a lot of interesting things for you, like Hebrew numerology and possible secrets of other dimensions, etc.

Thanks sOuljah I am going to have to look for it. Other dimensions are true.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Stormy


Thanks sOuljah I am going to have to look for it. Other dimensions are true.

Wasup sista?

Yes, he talks about the possibility that "Yahweh," God's original Hebrew name, contains secret information that there are 26 dimensions, based on Hebrew numerology.

 

[Stormy]

They've been ramping up accelerators darn-near constantly the last few years, trying to close in on the Higgs.

Morat: Now why didn't you tell her that the nick-name for Higgs is the God particle?