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Strong delusion

B

Bible2

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Time Watcher said in post 94:

Lone

You are on to the "lie" that will prevail .... is is the Muslim religion in the cross hairs

Note that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Islam in its past and current form, insofar as Islam affirms that Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 4:171), whereas the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Islam affirms that Christ is in the flesh, whereas the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Islam affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, whereas the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Islam (mistakenly) affirms that no man can be God, whereas the Antichrist will say that he's God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Islam forbids the worship of any images (Koran 21:52, Koran 6:74), whereas the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15). And Islam rejects Lucifer (Satan) as being evil, whereas the Antichrist will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Islam in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-7), the Antichrist and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be a secretly-apostate pope), could at first pretend to wholly support Islam in its current form (as well as Christianity), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.
 
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dfw69

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The Antichrist will have a False Prophet who will work amazing miracles by which people will be deceived (Revelation 13:12-14, Revelation 19:20, cf. Matthew 24:24). And God will send strong delusion on unrepentant people so that they will believe "the" lie (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12; in the original Greek there's a "the" before "lie"), which could be the antichrist lie that has been around since the first century AD (2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a), and which in the future will deceive the world into worshipping both Lucifer (Satan) the dragon and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the man of sin (2 Thessalonians 2:3-9), as God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). The antichrist lie denies that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and/or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), and/or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7), which denial is one of the key doctrines of Gnosticism.

(See post 76)

"The lie" can also refer to the idol build that comes to life that men will obey. The lie is a golem in the future temple. Scripture refers to idols as lies
 
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"The final war that takes place known as Armageddon is many nations gathering and surrounding Jerusalem and not one particular Islamic nation"


Suggest that you go to the OT and read of the nations "round about" Israel

These are defind as all Middle Eastern ... there are a number of them .... and they are all primarily Islamic today

The visions of the prophets all focus upon the Middle East proper [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; Daniel 11:36-45; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14

Other nations outside of the Middle East are simply not mentioned as being directly involved

The only exceptions I find are the "great" city of MBG [western] and those of the far east and far north .... all of these will fall to the little horn .... and so will Egypt to the south

There have been several wars between Israel and the adjacent Muslim states since Israel returned in 1948 .... but none are in the scope of the visions of the prophets .... because the 70th week decreed for Israel has not yet begun

Israel will be invaded and occupied by the little horn at the middle of the 70th week .... and the war in the visions is the battle of Armageddon

Anything prior to and outside of the coming 70th week of any significant events are not included in any vision

There are some today who would attempt to insert a coming war between Israel and the Muslim states round about .... but there is no visionary support for it

Bill Salus and David Reagen have been adding a war different from Armageddon that they say will occur prior to the 70th week ..... this is their speculation only ... there is no biblical support

And the outcome of their added war where Israel is seen as the victor wiping out Islam and then greatly expanding the nation's territory to the Euphrates is simply not true

There is no prophetic vision that makes this prediction and you will not find it

These two rapture ready preachers tell of Israel's victory and expansion which will follow the war of Armageddon, which is not a pre-70th week war as they think ..... then and only then will Israel experience Lord's coming millennial kingdom

These two dispensational interpreters should not be creating a pre-70th week war that is not in scripture .... and they are doing it to sensationalize and to sell books .... this should never be done

Not only that, but they place dispensational interpretations at risk and feed those of other persuasions with excuse
 
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shturt678

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Do you believe Jesus is your savior ?
Do you believe he died for your sins?
That he traded his life for yours?
That he was gods son and he gave his status to you?
That he took the law away from condemning you?
That he only commands you obey his new comandments to love one another?
To love god and love everybody?
To judge not to condemn not?
Is Jesus your lamb sacrifice for all sin?
Is Jesus your only hope of glory and nothing else?

If all this is yours then you will go to heaven for this is the only true faith that saves

All who believe in him are saved for god gave his only begotten son and whoever believes in him is saved.

Thank you again. Believe Jesus as my Savior through the former spiritual baptismal rebirth, ie, absolutely not! - results in "another Jesus" as one's Savior unknowingly (IICor.11:4). As my Savior through a valid water baptismal rebirth, ie, absolutely!

Remember the demons even believe, make-believers believe, deceived-believers believe, and even genuine-believers believe, ie, take your pick regarding Matt.7:22, 23?

Hey, we can agree to disagree and all the works that I bring forward could be fallacious in which case not only will you be in heaven, but in the upper glories, ie, I'm shooting for the top level of hell due to the time I was born into.

Just ol' old Jack that can't shoot straight anymore, ie, never could.
 
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shturt678

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"The lie" can also refer to the idol build that comes to life that men will obey. The lie is a golem in the future temple. Scripture refers to idols as lies

Not "Temple" in the future, but "Sanctuary" today, ie, IIThess.2:4; Rev.13:14b. Just have to look within now, not outside in some future lying time.

Just ol' old Jack trying to undo what it thinks it really is, only what it pretends to be illusion. Seems I'm confronting 'don't confuse me with spiritual realities, my mind is made up?' I have an excuse with my sometimers and allstimers
 
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dfw69

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Not "Temple" in the future, but "Sanctuary" today, ie, IIThess.2:4; Rev.13:14b. Just have to look within now, not outside in some future lying time.

Just ol' old Jack trying to undo what it thinks it really is, only what it pretends to be illusion. Seems I'm confronting 'don't confuse me with spiritual realities, my mind is made up?' I have an excuse with my sometimers and allstimers

Ezekiel's temple in chapters 40-48 is yet to be built
 
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Godssontoo

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Yes, the strong delusion is after the man of sin claims to be God, sitting in the seat of God, God has him killed. That is in Ezekiel 28:1-10.

Then, the slain man of sin, finding himself in hell is mocked by them there, Isaiah 14. Then God in his disdain for him, because he will be a Jew who destroys his land and his people in Isaiah 14, cast him out of the grave - bringing him back to life. That is the strong delusion.

Those who reject the gospel of Salvation, and bought into the man of sin's claim to be God, will be deluded by the Antichrist's coming back to life. It will serve to reinforce their belief his claim of being God. "the" lie is the Antichrist's claim to being God.

Doug

The Antichrist aka Satan will never come back to life once he is cast into the lake of fire , you cite Ezekiel 28:1-10 but if you continue reading to verse 28:19 it tells us that God brings a fire from with in Satan and he will come to ashes ne'er to be anymore .

Isaiah 15 refers to Satan being brought out of the pit he was placed in Revelation 20:1-3 . Satan is released at the end of the millenium for the final battle and then the white throne judgement where all who are not found in the book of life are thrown in the lake of fire to be completely blotted out of existence, the only thing that will remain of them is the smoke of there torment which will rise forever.
 
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shturt678

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but the 2Thes2 temple is those of us in Christ

but the 2Thess2 sanctuary is those of us in Christ. where the Holy Spirit has been horribly replaced unknowingly. I wonder replaced with who or what?

Just ol' old Jack, ie, always enjoy your responses, ie, thank you.
 
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dfw69

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I don't have to wait until the American Hiroshima to be convinced that Islam is Babylon the Great. There's no religion on the planet capable of fulfilling all the evils of end-time bible prophecy other than Islam.

the coming final false messiah will rule 10 kingdoms that consist of many nations and languages who will gather to seek to destroy Israel . It's not one Nation of Islamic people but many nations....

Do you believe many nations will side with Islam to gather and destroy Israel? I don't see it happening
 
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dfw69

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Sanctuary Ezek.37:28 = / = Temple, ie, big difference.

Just ol' Amil. Jack, where Sanctuary is being built today in men's hearts sort of thing.

And that temple must be built by a false messiah to convince the Jews that he is the promise messiah. For Jesus said Israel will receive another who comes in his own name and they shall receive him ... Logic says that in order to believe one is the promised messiah then he will have to fulfill Messianic prophecies. This he will do to deceive
 
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n2thelight

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2Th 2:7-12 NKJV For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. (8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (9) The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, (10) and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.(11) And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, (12) that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what this strong delusion will be?


The strong delussion is,believing satan is Christ......
 
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shturt678

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The strong delussion is,believing satan is Christ......

'The Antichrist reveals himself as the Antichrist by this pagan act of seating himself in the true God's own sanctuary, ie, Satan is in hell awaiting to be loosed, or is he personally loosed already?

Just a side note. We need to forget about the poor "Jews," ie, God destroyed them as a nation long ago. They either trust in the promise now, becoming Jewish Christians, or will be getting very warm for them forever.

just ol' old Jack trying to stay :cool: forever
 
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B

Bible2

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shturt678 said in post 112:

Not "Temple" in the future, but "Sanctuary" today, ie, IIThess.2:4; Rev.13:14b.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:4, like in Revelation 11:1-2, the original Greek word (naos, G3485) translated as "temple" is the same word used for an actual physical temple in Matthew 23:16, Matthew 23:17, Matthew 23:21, Matthew 23:35, Matthew 27:5, Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 1:9, Luke 1:21, Luke 1:22, Luke 23:45, and John 2:20.

The Antichrist will fulfill 2 Thessalonians 2:4 after he by force takes control of a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stops the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of it, and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15).

The Antichrist could then make quite a show of his sitting himself in the temple and declaring himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31). And he could make a television and internet broadcast of it which will be seen live by the world (so that the "ye" in Matthew 24:15 could include people all around the world). He could first be shown entering the temple's most holy place in magnificent golden robes. He could then step up to the Ark of the Covenant (which could have been discovered, and placed in the temple by the Jews), and lift the Mercy Seat off of the Ark, showing the Ark to be empty. He could then look into the camera and say: "Where is YHWH? He is not here! He is a distant fraud! His power on this earth is as hollow as this empty Ark!" (The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH: Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36.)

Then the Antichrist could raise the Mercy Seat high above his head only to suddenly smash it down violently to the ground, breaking it into pieces. The piped-in sound of crowds roaring with approval could then be heard in the background. Then the Antichrist could place his hands on the Ark and stare into the camera: "WE can do better than this". He could then knock over the Ark and stamp it with his foot, bashing in its side. Two of the Antichrist's followers in robes could then quickly come in and clear away the rubble of the Mercy Seat and the Ark, while 4 more men in robes carry into the temple's most holy place a magnificent golden throne and place it right where the Ark had been before. All the men could then bow down and motion with their arms for the Antichrist to sit on the throne. He could then grandly take his seat upon it.

Glorious symphonic music could then swell as the sound of crowds roaring with approval increases. Then the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20) (who could be an apostate pope) could enter the temple's most holy place and approach the Antichrist carrying a majestic golden crown encrusted with large diamonds and all kinds of precious stones. The Antichrist could take the crown from the pope's hands, and as the Antichrist is placing the crown on his own head, a camera could zoom in on his face as he says: "I AM THAT I AM. I AM YOUR GOD. Worship me, all ye nations of the earth!"

(cf. Revelation 13:8, Daniel 11:36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4)

shturt678 said in post 112:

Not "Temple" in the future, but "Sanctuary" today, ie, IIThess.2:4; Rev.13:14b.

Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 require that there will be a 3rd Jewish temple in the earthly Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple will coexist with the church like the 2nd temple did (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17) and like the temple building in heaven does (Revelation 11:19). The 3rd temple could be built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount by the ultra-Orthodox Jews after they (or great earthquakes) clear the site by destroying the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. Shortly after they build the temple, the Antichrist could attack and defeat them and a false Messiah leading them (Daniel 11:22).

Then the Antichrist could "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false "Messiah" (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23a), permitting them to keep the temple, and to continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of it, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. The ultra-Orthodox Jews could grudgingly agree to this, if the only other option is for them to lose the temple entirely. They could then build a high wall between the temple and the mosque, in order to keep the temple from being defiled.

But then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 9:27b, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

At the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the Antichrist (Daniel 11:45) and the world's armies will pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21). And at the 2nd coming there will be tremendous earth changes in the vicinity of Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4-5). These events could result in all of Jerusalem's structures, including the 3rd temple and the Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall), being broken down so that not one stone will be left on another (Luke 19:44, Matthew 24:2). Then the returned Jesus (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) will rebuild Jerusalem and make it the capital of the world (Zechariah 14:8-19, Micah 4:1-4). He will also build a 4th temple there (Zechariah 14:20-21, Zechariah 6:12-13). It will serve a similar function for the church during the future millennium (of Revelation 20:4-6) as the 2nd temple served for the church in the first century AD (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17) and as the temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19) serves for those in heaven (Revelation 7:15).

~

One reason that the 3rd Jewish temple hasn't been built yet is the Israeli government is protecting the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest buildings in Islam, right after those in Mecca and Medina), knowing that if the ultra-Orthodox Jews were to destroy these buildings in order to clear the Temple Mount for a 3rd Jewish temple, this could mean the end of the state of Israel. For enraged Muslim armies and militias could attack Israel en masse in an all-out jihad and defeat it completely. While the ultra-Orthodox Jews are no doubt aware of this danger, they believe that the 3rd temple must nonetheless be built exactly where the prior temples stood: right over the Rock of Sacrifice (the Rock of the Dome of the Rock) on which Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac. And the ultra-Orthodox Jews could be brought to the point where they will even desire to see the end of the current, secular state of Israel, believing that only in its demise will God make it possible for them to establish a new, perfectly ultra-Orthodox, theocratic state of Israel.

Something that could bring the ultra-Orthodox Jews to this point would be them getting squeezed out of their settlements in Samaria and Judaea (also called the West Bank), and in East Jerusalem, as part of a peace deal handing these areas over to a Palestinian state. For the ultra-Orthodox Jews (rightly) see Samaria, Judaea, and Jerusalem as the historically most important and holy parts of the land promised by God to Israel since the time of Abraham (Exodus 32:13). So when they start to get squeezed out of these areas, in a rage they could suddenly mass in their tens of thousands, armed with machine guns (which they're allowed to have for self-defense against the Palestinians). And led by 3 huge bulldozers, they could march as a great army to the Old City of Jerusalem, and go up onto the Temple Mount and destroy the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (or simply clear way their rubble, if they've already been destroyed by great earthquakes by that time).

Besides getting squeezed out of their settlements, something else that could tip the scales toward this happening would be the rising up of a miracle-working, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false "Messiah" (cf. Matthew 24:24), who could tell the ultra-Orthodox Jews something like:

"God says that now is the time for us to take back religious control of the Holy Temple Mount, and rid it of all the detestable shrines which the Muslims have placed upon it. We are to sanctify it in the name of our God, so that we might rebuild His Holy Temple there. Listen, my brethren, fear not the Muslims' reaction when we retake religious control of the Holy Temple Mount. For God Himself is with us. He will protect us perfectly. Have I not shown you His mighty Power working through Me? Fear not any men, but fear only our Mighty God, who now commands us to rebuild His Holy Temple at the place He determined from the time of our Father Abraham. Our God gave us back the Holy Temple Mount way back in 1967 C.E. But what have we done with it over all the time since then? Nothing! How can this be? How can we have allowed some merely-secular, so-called 'Israeli' government invented by sinful men to keep us, God's holy people, from even setting foot back on the Temple Mount? Let us rise up, my brethren! Let us all rise up, in the name of our God, and let us do mighty exploits to the Glory of His Holy Name!"

Something else that could help tip the scales regarding the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel becoming violent is their finding out the location of the Ark of the Covenant, which could be buried under an ancient ruined fort in the desert east of Jerusalem. The Copper Scroll could contain the clues as to where the Ark is buried in the fort (e.g. "under the third step"). The Ark could have been located there already with ground-penetrating radar by some non-religious treasure hunters, but the Israeli government could be holding up a digging permit to retrieve the Ark because the government is afraid that the ultra-Orthodox Jews could see the discovery of the Ark as (in their words) "an unmistakable sign from God that now is the time for us to rebuild His Holy Temple". So the Israeli government has a motive to keep the location of the buried Ark top secret.
 
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Bible2

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zeke37 said in post 114:

but the 2Thes2 temple is those of us in Christ

While the church as a whole is a figurative temple building (Ephesians 2:21), it isn't the only temple of God. For it coexists with the literal temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and with the temple of Jesus' individual human body (John 2:21), and with the temple of every Christian's individual human body (1 Corinthians 6:19). And if the church-as-a-whole temple can currently coexist with all these other temples of God, it will be able to coexist with the future, 3rd-earthly-literal temple building which Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 show will exist in Jerusalem during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. This 3rd temple building will be accepted by God as a valid temple, just as the 2nd temple building was accepted by God as a valid temple, even at the time of Jesus' first coming (Matthew 23:21) and even at the time of the early church (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17).

For the ultra-Orthodox Jews will build the 3rd temple, and they will offer animal sacrifices in front of it, under the auspices of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which remains holy before God (Romans 7:12). That's why God still keeps an ark of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in his temple building in heaven (Revelation 11:19), and why it was possible for the apostle Paul one time to involve himself with the 2nd temple's Old Covenant Mosaic law practices without him committing sin (Acts 21:20-26; 1 Corinthians 9:20). This isn't to say that the Jesus-denying motives of the ultra-Orthodox Jews will be holy before God, but that the Old-Covenant-Mosaic-law 3rd temple in itself and its animal sacrifices in themselves will be holy before God because the Old Covenant Mosaic law in itself remains holy before God (Romans 7:12), even though its letter is no longer meant to be practiced by people (Romans 7:6) because the New Covenant has been inaugurated by Jesus and his once-for-all-time sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Hebrews 10:1-23, Matthew 26:28).
 
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zeke37

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That's an assumption it does not say that in thes.

the same writer, Paul, aready told us 3 or 4 times, that we r the temple of God

now u want me to believe that Paul, the same write,
used the same term temple of God to refer to a future building?
lol.
even tho he says that God does not dwell in man made buildings?


remember this is PAUL, calling something the temple of God.
And we already know his views on the temple of God definition

iow, this is not Paul saying that the son of perdition will sit in a place that others call the temple of God.
PAUL called it the temple of God, so we know it is not a man made building

The strong delussion is,believing satan is Christ......
absolutely correct.

Satan will be cast here, defacto, and pretend to be Jesus returned.
he will set up "his" kingdom.

if u(anyone) believe his lies abut being Jesus,
then he sits in you (the temple of God), claiming to be God, showing that he is God


who among "us" will be patient and faithful through the test?
who will wait till the end?
who will be deceived/seduced/take the mark of the beast?
 
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