Strange Fire Conference

[FuegoPentecostes]

Next week will mark the start of John MacArthur's "Strange Fire Conference", where the topic of strange fire found in many charismatic circles will be discussed.

It has been made clear that manifestations such as barking like dogs, uncontrollable laughter, and other newer charismatic practices will be discussed in the conference.

What do others think about the idea of this conference? I for one actually support it. Being Pentecostal can mean so many things, I for one am a very classical Pentecostal. Tounges and all that are great, but I do not in any way support any of these new "manifestations" where people bark like dogs, or whole congregations laugh so hard they literally do not even give a sermon. I like MacArthur's recognition that there are classical Pentecostals that truly love Christ and believe in the Bible, but he asserts the fact that these true Pentecostals need to start to speak out against Charismatics that practice this false worship. I completely agree with this.

Thoughts? Opinions? On the conference or this "strange fire" in general?

 

[Andrea411]

Next week will mark the start of John MacArthur's "Strange Fire Conference", where the topic of strange fire found in many charismatic circles will be discussed.

It has been made clear that manifestations such as barking like dogs, uncontrollable laughter, and other newer charismatic practices will be discussed in the conference.

What do others think about the idea of this conference? I for one actually support it. Being Pentecostal can mean so many things, I for one am a very classical Pentecostal. Tounges and all that are great, but I do not in any way support any of these new "manifestations" where people bark like dogs, or whole congregations laugh so hard they literally do not even give a sermon. I like MacArthur's recognition that there are classical Pentecostals that truly love Christ and believe in the Bible, but he asserts the fact that these true Pentecostals need to start to speak out against Charismatics that practice this false worship. I completely agree with this.

Thoughts? Opinions? On the conference or this "strange fire" in general?

Is John McArthur guilty of focusing on error rather then focusing on the Holy Spirit. Has he ever acknowledged the great movement going on in India, Asia and Africa...most of which is charismatic. Where there is real movement is also where the charlatans will be... those that are dead don't bother J.M. or Satan... they are already in his grasp. J.M. worries about the charismatics, the fastest growing Christian evangelizing movement ever seen in history....
there are 300 million Christians in China today... mostly charismatic. Almost more then the population of the USA but J.McArthur chooses to focus on a few extreme situations that he himself has not even been involved with....
I would not trust this man... every movement of God has had 'people claiming to be on God's side standing firmly against Him... think of the Pharisees...
He is afraid of tongues and gold dust... get over it J.M. God is doing His thing just not your way...

 

[Alithis]

yeah- what andrea has asked .

i have both experienced such things and been in such meetings -
there is ALWAYS tares among the WHEAT .
people seem to be so quick to throw out the baby with the bathwater .

i have been to a meeting where there was one lady laughing in intercession through most of the sermon of deliverance but other then that it was a fairly subdued gathering.. then at the end the speaker began to pray against a number of differing aspects of religious spirits and suddenly many .. and i do mean MANY (40 to 50)people began to cough and sneeze as evil religious spirits were driven out of them in a non dramatic authoritative and orderly fashion . after that a great sense of joy filled the meeting and we sang and danced in the joy and freedom of the lord .

I too have noted that some christian leaders are becoming so concerned that they are beginning to wage a war against some of these movements but that has ALWAYS happened .. I still think it falls into the error of attempting to pull out the tares ..but as the Lord Jesus said -you will pull up the good wheat in the process and do more harm then Good .

 

[jiminpa]

johnmacarthur has books and tickets to sell, and accusing Bible believing Christians sells. What place does a preacher who has actually called the Bible wrong have criticizing believers for doing things that aren't addressed one way or another in the Bible.

It's a good thing the disciples hadn't gone to a "strange fire" conference before tongues of fire fell and they all start looking all drunk and babbling a bunch of gibberish. I have news for johnnymac and joniericksontada and the rest of those smarter than God celebrities. God is NOT going to make an account to them for what He does in His servants. They will make an account for every blasphemy and false witness they pronounce.

 

[Alithis]

and yet we love them - they believe in Jesus and are our brethren in faith -
if they be in error may the lord show them and bring them into unity with the truth of the Spirit of Jesus ..if we be in error may the lord forgive us and bring us into the unity of the truth of the Spirit of the Lord Jesus

 

[Andrea411]

and yet we love them - they believe in Jesus and are our brethren in faith -
if they be in error may the lord show them and bring them into unity with the truth of the Spirit of Jesus ..if we be in error may the lord forgive us and bring us into the unity of the truth of the Spirit of the Lord Jesus

...thank you. I disagree with J.McArthur but he has spread the gospel and discipled believers for 40 years. Never had a scandal or any hint of wrong doing. That said, these churches that have no problems often have nothing going on. It is so much easier to pastor a mainline church where everyone files in and out... does what their told and acts as if they know the Lord then it is to pastor a congregation that is actively trying to "tabernacle with God'. Sometimes there are people who 'act out' bc they need attention - this doesn't happen in more conventional churches. Sometimes people get overwhelmed with the presence of God... I remember crying so much my sweater was soaking wet... now how would that look at J.M's church. They'd think I was losing it. I was losing it... but I was so overwhelmed in the presence of a Holy God.. I could barely stand. I have been to mainline churches and I am stunned...just stunned at the lack of emoted worship... how do you worship with no emotion?? How do people think about Jesus - His grace, the work of the cross, the love of an awesome God and not have any emotion???
I've been disturbed at times with people's behavior... I figure its a challenge to me to be more sensitive to them, patient with others.... discerning. A mature church has people ready to handle situations...
Our culture asks that we keep our religion to ourselves, be still in church - its called reverence. I think the Lord wants us to worship Him in Spirit and in truth... with our whole minds, body, and heart.... and that can be very demonstrative.
J.M. offends me when he speaks out against the manifestations of the Holy Spirit, I have too many friends, who I know love the Lord, walk in faith everyday.... that have had gold dust or gold oil pour down them while in worship.... I've seen the glory cloud in the midst... I know what I've heard and I believe the Lord is sovereign in His way of dealing with us... maybe He is challenging us to dance before Him, in spite of the laughter of others.... like David we dance, sing, and can hardly contain our love for Him... and sometimes we laugh... its wonderful. Just like we would do if Jesus was with us... just imagine.... would you fall down on your knees or cry out...?? just imagine... bc He is with us
God bless, andrea

 

[jiminpa]

...thank you. I disagree with J.McArthur but he has spread the gospel and discipled believers for 40 years. Never had a scandal or any hint of wrong doing. That said, these churches that have no problems often have nothing going on. It is so much easier to pastor a mainline church where everyone files in and out... does what their told and acts as if they know the Lord then it is to pastor a congregation that is actively trying to "tabernacle with God'. Sometimes there are people who 'act out' bc they need attention - this doesn't happen in more conventional churches. Sometimes people get overwhelmed with the presence of God... I remember crying so much my sweater was soaking wet... now how would that look at J.M's church. They'd think I was losing it. I was losing it... but I was so overwhelmed in the presence of a Holy God.. I could barely stand. I have been to mainline churches and I am stunned...just stunned at the lack of emoted worship... how do you worship with no emotion?? How do people think about Jesus - His grace, the work of the cross, the love of an awesome God and not have any emotion???
I've been disturbed at times with people's behavior... I figure its a challenge to me to be more sensitive to them, patient with others.... discerning. A mature church has people ready to handle situations...
Our culture asks that we keep our religion to ourselves, be still in church - its called reverence. I think the Lord wants us to worship Him in Spirit and in truth... with our whole minds, body, and heart.... and that can be very demonstrative.
J.M. offends me when he speaks out against the manifestations of the Holy Spirit, I have too many friends, who I know love the Lord, walk in faith everyday.... that have had gold dust or gold oil pour down them while in worship.... I've seen the glory cloud in the midst... I know what I've heard and I believe the Lord is sovereign in His way of dealing with us... maybe He is challenging us to dance before Him, in spite of the laughter of others.... like David we dance, sing, and can hardly contain our love for Him... and sometimes we laugh... its wonderful. Just like we would do if Jesus was with us... just imagine.... would you fall down on your knees or cry out...?? just imagine... bc He is with us
God bless, andrea

I don't know, calling the Holy Spirit "not God" from the pulpit might be somewhat scandalous. It certainly should be.

Jesus said of the most respected religious leaders of His days on Earth that they'll walk a mile to win one convert and make him more of a son of Hell than they are. It was considered near blasphemy to even suggest scandal associated to them, and yet when the very Word of God stood in front of them they murdered Him. It wasn't that they weren't up to the tips of their heads in evil, it's that they were above confrontation. I see a lot of parallels here. johnnymac is well respected among those willing to dedicate their lives to compromising the Word of God, and he is profiting greatly by calling men of God who are standing on the scriptures, "wolves and charlatans." I see a lot of people calling themselves Charismatics and standing up for johnnymac as he stands against men of God. My question is, who will speak in support of the men of God.

 

[Andrea411]

I don't know, calling the Holy Spirit "not God" from the pulpit might be somewhat scandalous. It certainly should be.

Jesus said of the most respected religious leaders of His days on Earth that they'll walk a mile to win one convert and make him more of a son of Hell than they are. It was considered near blasphemy to even suggest scandal associated to them, and yet when the very Word of God stood in front of them they murdered Him. It wasn't that they weren't up to the tips of their heads in evil, it's that they were above confrontation. I see a lot of parallels here. johnnymac is well respected among those willing to dedicate their lives to compromising the Word of God, and he is profiting greatly by calling men of God who are standing on the scriptures, "wolves and charlatans." I see a lot of people calling themselves Charismatics and standing up for johnnymac as he stands against men of God. My question is, who will speak in support of the men of God.

...........................
I don't listen to JM so I'm not sure of what your talking about today. After 'Charismatic Chaos' and I saw an interview he gave... I shudder to think of the damage cessationists can do. BUT... its never about JM, Benny Hinn, or any other Christian celebrity.... God decides and He uses broken vessels. He is after hearts... not minds. Our minds are not like God's until after our hearts desire Him.... so ...just my opinion... the Lord uses all different and sometimes strange people bc LOL we like to look at accidents.... we gawk at the blood and gore.... in the midst of the Jimmy Swaggart/Bakker debacle in the 80's I had more chances to really talk to unbelievers especially in my own family... it was amazing. These same people would shut me up in a heart beat, would listen as I explained how and why God could use someone like these people to spread His word. Face it - he doesn't need TV... this all started with 12 guys on foot.... since then whenever there is controversy, I use it... its an opening to let the light shine through. Most of JMs followers are already cessationists, so opening up the conversation only allows for more discussion about the manifestations, gifts etc etc. The bible is clear.... these things do not end until that which is perfect comes.... He hasn't returned so the gifts are still operating... they just need believers to accept them and be 'faithing' enough to use them...
on the other hand, some people might be scared of "holy rollers' and would avoid hearing the gospel if they saw people falling out, speaking in tongues and crying... so these people will listen to the gospel from JM.... Jesus is all things to all people. He understands our weaknesses and we need to believe the power is not in us or them... its the Holy Spirit that empowers the word, the gospel gets preached whether its for selfish ambition or out of jealousy and strife... who cares as long as the gospel goes forth
God bless, andrea
Phl 1
12 Now I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel. 13 As a result, it has become clear throughout the whole palace guard and to everyone else that I am in chains for Christ. 14 Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously and fearlessly. 15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, 19 for I know that through your prayers and the help given by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance.

 

[Alithis]

re -

who will speak in support of the men of God.

not themselves -if they be men of god , God speaks for them . they just get on with "HIS" work

 

[Biblicist]

. . . I see a lot of parallels here. johnnymac is well respected among those willing to dedicate their lives to compromising the Word of God, and he is profiting greatly by calling men of God who are standing on the scriptures, "wolves and charlatans." I see a lot of people calling themselves Charismatics and standing up for johnnymac as he stands against men of God. My question is, who will speak in support of the men of God.

The idea of johhnymac running an accountability clinic with regard to the Pentecostal movement is akin to having Todd Bentley speaking on the need for a high level of morality and ethics or having the likes of Benny Hinn talking about ethics in ministry.

I have absolutely no qualms with referring to johhnymac as a purveyor of darkness who has been at the head of those who have endeavoured to keep so many away from the fullness of the Spirit and for that matter the love of God.

PS. If anyone wants to send me a copy of his new book I will be happy to receive it. I will place it at the head of my new out-of-site book shelf which I will refer to as the "Dark Arts" section, along with other cessationist material and populist heretical books.

 

[jiminpa]

re -

not themselves -if they be men of god , God speaks for them . they just get on with "HIS" work

So maybe, then, we revealing ourselves by standing with men and women of God, willing to take God at his word, or by standing with those who have climbed up on their own pedestal, declaring themselves to be teachers, yet finding the scriptures wanting. Some of you claim to be familiar with Charismatic Chaos, then you read were macarthur calls the Bible wrong because he doesn't like what it says.

But even as far as saying that a man of God will let God speak for them, I don't see that of the apostle Paul. He defended himself quite a bit. So did Jesus for that matter, until it was time to remain silent and become The Sacrifice for all.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Love is what really matters!

Do the firey or revivalist, have a history of love or seeking love?
Does the revival claim to outpour love?
Does the revival fire quell love, as seen in action and word spoken and word in print of the revivalist, so much so the main men, and those who testified next to them?
Are the people who barked liked dogs in Wesley's revival or TACF known to be hateful?
Dogs, are they beasts of hate, or pets? Barking when the master draws near? We must see the character of the barker, and even ask, did they bark or were they gasping under the Spirits power?
Is love always logical? Must our refined European manners be satisfied that the Holy Ghost is an English gentlemen? How much logic does one see in the pristine mountains and forests? There actually is some there.
Does love have to be controlling or under human control, tapped? Gal 5:22, love is mentioned first, lastly, self control.

YHWH is love.
Whether Jesus' sacred blood, YHWH, the Holy Spirit, living water, fire, light, gold, anointing, love Rom 5:5, or a grace filled holy angel, the filling the Spirit is one essence, and being, is love in nature and is sacred equally. Like in Corinthians, Peter or Paul, or Apollos... there is one saviour God.

We must hold God sacred. Holy Spirit, YHWH, friend, Saviour, Teacher, LORD, Lord.
If you cannot tell, if it is Him, God, or human spirit, or flesh or unclean spirit, best not draw a conclusion.

God is most high, if one prays to God, asks for love and repentance, forgiveness, strength, will God give you a stone, or a scorpion or allow an unclean spirit to come into you instead? Ask for wisdom, but become a fool? So you actions are unclean or hurt someone?

Did anyone come to church, and laugh, and dislike it, and try to stop, because work the next day was more important? Fr Soulsby in 95 or 96 hand was upon me and prayed, I began to laugh. But he was short on time, and said stop Holy Spirit. I wish I had laughed for at least 35 minutes.

Experiences of Jesus are some of the most important things to anchor us in Christ so we do not become atheists or new agers... Repentance giving a clear conscience. Who else offers that? How worthy is a clear conscience! Jesus blood and no fear and a clean heart of thoughts, how real and worthy is that? A healing that you know is real throughout a science degree. Refreshing living water? Waves of love that leave you in love with God and everything that moves?

God's presence and hidden with a power for men and women, is the a deciding factor in the whole Bible, a constant theme. If a book does not have this, it is not of the Holy Spirit. It is when the Spirit comes upon or into us, that He does His work as upon the deep ocean of Genesis chapter 1. Infusion of justice and mercy, cleanness, love, healing. By the power in His presence to change things for the better. I wonder why other people fast then?

In the whole Bible, I only recall a verse in Solomon's Wisdom of self effort. "Discipline and self correction, lead to life." Moses gave the law, and there was wisdom, just judgement and oral tradition. But we now know the law was less than grace and truth in Christ.

Revival is about grace and truth and love, and the pouring of the grace, His Spirit into hungry people. Reviving the gifts and powers. Then our hearts when He touches us and comes in and even saturates us. With the Bible about His presence and love, and the Holy Spirit pouring in, we grow, the fruit must be tested. And any fringe group errors explained.

Let's keep liking people because of Jesus.

 

[Andrea411]

Next week will mark the start of John MacArthur's "Strange Fire Conference", where the topic of strange fire found in many charismatic circles will be discussed.

It has been made clear that manifestations such as barking like dogs, uncontrollable laughter, and other newer charismatic practices will be discussed in the conference.

What do others think about the idea of this conference? I for one actually support it. Being Pentecostal can mean so many things, I for one am a very classical Pentecostal. Tounges and all that are great, but I do not in any way support any of these new "manifestations" where people bark like dogs, or whole congregations laugh so hard they literally do not even give a sermon. I like MacArthur's recognition that there are classical Pentecostals that truly love Christ and believe in the Bible, but he asserts the fact that these true Pentecostals need to start to speak out against Charismatics that practice this false worship. I completely agree with this.

Thoughts? Opinions? On the conference or this "strange fire" in general?

...somehow I don't see this as a kick start to revival.... wish this man would take his flock and put it to good use.... one of the arguments I would hear on other boards about Charismatic churches is that they were divisive to the body. This was supposed to indicate they were false...LOL... I'm like oh yea, please lets divide who is cold and who is hot.... at least at a charismatic church you kinda have to get a little warm just to hang out... reminds me of Rev. ? where Jesus will spew the lukewarm from His mouth... scary stuff.
I have yet to go to a non-charismatic church that was truly able to allow people to worship.... yes they sing, and their hearts worship... but its like worshipping in a straight jacket. I can do it but if the jacket is just social customs it so sad to lift your hands and praise the Lord and have people look at you like your weird or being a show off. Once I was set free to worship - and it was literally like being released, I can't just sit there on my hands... if the Spirit moves....my heart cries out, every bone in my body just wants to praise Him. IDK about the barking, but I do know people that went to Toronto (Blessing) and still talk about how powerful it was... they brought it back to their own churches and we still have an abundance of independent charismatic churches in this area. Many of those people came back, got ordained and are still very active in the body of Christ. I know these people personally and they are the ones who live the church, its not a Sunday event. I don't care if I go to church on Sunday the real church happens in our homes, where we work and live out our lives
God bless, andrea

 

[mourningdove~]

Next week will mark the start of John MacArthur's "Strange Fire Conference", where the topic of strange fire found in many charismatic circles will be discussed.

It has been made clear that manifestations such as barking like dogs, uncontrollable laughter, and other newer charismatic practices will be discussed in the conference.

What do others think about the idea of this conference? I for one actually support it. Being Pentecostal can mean so many things, I for one am a very classical Pentecostal. Tounges and all that are great, but I do not in any way support any of these new "manifestations" where people bark like dogs, or whole congregations laugh so hard they literally do not even give a sermon. I like MacArthur's recognition that there are classical Pentecostals that truly love Christ and believe in the Bible, but he asserts the fact that these true Pentecostals need to start to speak out against Charismatics that practice this false worship. I completely agree with this.

I agree also.

And I am very much looking forward to 'attending' the conference via the internet.

 

[Biblicist]

I agree also.

And I am very much looking forward to 'attending' the conference via the internet.

For me, that would be like listening in to an atheists conference where the conference was addressing the current state of the Church, who knows...maybe the atheist society might even do a better job than MacArthur.

 

[pilgrim42]

Next week will mark the start of John MacArthur's "Strange Fire Conference", where the topic of strange fire found in many charismatic circles will be discussed.

It has been made clear that manifestations such as barking like dogs, uncontrollable laughter, and other newer charismatic practices will be discussed in the conference.

What do others think about the idea of this conference? I for one actually support it. Being Pentecostal can mean so many things, I for one am a very classical Pentecostal. Tounges and all that are great, but I do not in any way support any of these new "manifestations" where people bark like dogs, or whole congregations laugh so hard they literally do not even give a sermon. I like MacArthur's recognition that there are classical Pentecostals that truly love Christ and believe in the Bible, but he asserts the fact that these true Pentecostals need to start to speak out against Charismatics that practice this false worship. I completely agree with this.

Thoughts? Opinions? On the conference or this "strange fire" in general?

\

I don't know a lot about the Toronto Blessing Movement, but I think overall things done in religious meetings be done decently and in order. If something is done out of the ordinary, such as laughter, I believe it will received by the congregation as a movement of the Spirit, and the godly saints will not be embarrassed by it.

My wife and I have a female friend who received the laughing blessing several years ago. She is not the kind of person that is given to doing embarrassing things. She told me that when the urge came upon her, she was not able to control it. She now goes to a Presbyterian Church, so I'm assuming that the blessing has worn off.

I don't believe the Holy Spirit will allow us to do things that will bring reproach or embarrassment to the cause of Christ. That doesn't mean that we won't do things that are commanded in scripture, or things that may be a little uncomfortable to us.

Ken

 

[mourningdove~]

For those that aren't familiar with what's being discussed,
here is an intro video regarding the Strange Fire conference being held this week:

John MacArthur (strange fire) #1 - YouTube

I don't know what will be said, I don't know that I'll agree with all that is said, but I'll be watching and listening so as to know for myself what actually has been said, rather than to merely accept 'hearsay' as fact.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"What do others think about the idea of this conference?"

I don't "Think about it" at all. The LAST person in the world that I'd bother wasting an Evening on is Mac, and his "I'm all right" and You're all wrong" axe jobs on fellow ministers and congregations.

I've been in the Assemblies of God for half as long as they've existed, seen plenty of foolishness, and what I've found is that "Watchdog"/"Attack Dog" ministries are largely ineffective, and do little or nothing but create strife, and bad attitudes.

But HEY!! Mac will have his little party, make his money, and go on to the next battle seamlessly as usual.

Is there "Strange fire"? sure. Will this "Mac-attack" have any effect on that whatsoever?? Nah.

 

[mourningdove~]

Personally, I think awareness of 'strange fire' may help to pull some potential victims away from it, and also may keep some persons from ever even getting close to the 'fire'.

Additionally, what's discussed may also serve to provide comfort and confirmation of some things to those that have been already been 'burned' thru their involvement with 'strange fire'.

Even if only for those reasons, I do believe some good effect can potentially come from the conference.

 

[Alithis]

i watched the intro clip-

men imposing their own boxed up concept of Gods expectations because we want every one elses boxed up context to fit into our own box..is a waste of precious gospel preaching time and a little arrogant to think we have the only handle on what GODS expectations are.

it (the clip)begins with a posted verse that assumes(and accuses) people who stand praying-"lord please fill me with your Holy Spirit.." of desiring evil.

then it begins with -the LAW.... and there i knew it was only going to bring judgment,condemnation and death to the new law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus... and it did.

attendance will dampen your faith in Gods ability to fulfill his promises ,bring doubt to your walk in the Holy Spirit-who Is Jesus.and encourage you to base your new life in Christ back under the law of sin and death which Jesus set us free from when he paid its death sentence in full.

give this conference a miss.