Stopping abortion

[livingproofGM]

What, exactly, are you doing in your life to ensure that all children born live safe, healthy lives?

What, exactly, are you doing in your life to ensure that the value you so zealously place on life itself extends past conception and pregnancy, past birth and to the end of a person's life?

As soon as you find out about your pregnancy, you look for someone who wants to adopt. You cannot justify murder by saying, "I was sure you would grow up on the streets, so I killed you."

 

[Helo]

Something has struck me recently about the 'pro-life' crowd. We all know they oppose abortion. They don't want it to take place. Fair enough.

But I have to believe that they're not stupid. They must realise that illegalising it will do very little or nothing to actually reduce the number of abortions that happen. After all, abortion has happened, on large scales, always, whether it was legal or not. So they must realise that illegalising it won't stop it. So while illegalising it might make them feel a little better, it won't really help in the battle they are fighting (ie., to stop/limit abortions).

So...what WOULD stop it? I would think the most obvious way to lower the number of abortions would be to increase sex education and availability of cheap contraceptives. Why are those who oppose abortion never for this option?

The only conclusion I can come to is that while they might be against abortion, that's not really the issue. What they oppose is what they see as sexual immorality, and abortion is one consequence of that.

So they don't WANT to make sex safer...because that'll just mean people are more likely to have sex. They want to keep sex 'dangerous' (ie., more likely to have adverse consequences such as disease/unwanted pregnancy) in an effort to persuade people not to have it.

Otherwise, if they really were so concerned about preventing abortions, they'd be handing out free condoms instead of picketing clinics.

And that sucks.

The pro-life movement is as close to futile as handing out KKK pamphlets in Nigeria. Its been around since what? The 80's? And its accomplished virtually nothing.

In my opinion, the picketing of clinics is a way for people to make a fuss and get attention without accomplishing a real goal. Baiscally a way for them to get a pat on the back for throwing a temper tantrum.

If they were serious about the pro-life movement, they would call up doctors or the AMA and say "Hey, your violating the Hippocratic Oath." Or as Skeptic pointed out, hand out condoms and make other forms of birth control more avalible.

I ALWAYS point and laugh at the protesters. It accomplishes NOTHING to do that and I just think protesters, in this particular case, just want some quick and easy attention, they dont give about "the cause".

As soon as you find out about your pregnancy, you look for someone who wants to adopt. You cannot justify murder by saying, "I was sure you would grow up on the streets, so I killed you."

Fantastic, your solution is adding MORE kids to our already over-flowing group homes and social programs?

 

[livingproofGM]

It is precisely the issue. You claimed they had no right; I correct you by pointing out that they DO have a right - the legal right.

Yet again, it is not murder. We have gone over this. Murder is the UNLAWFUL killing....abortion is not unlawful.

Will you answer my questions? The reason it is not illegal is because people seem to believe that a fetus is not a human. What do you believe?

 

[livingproofGM]

In my opinion, the picketing of clinics is a way for people to make a fuss and get attention without accomplishing a real goal. Baiscally a way for them to get a pat on the back for throwing a temper tantrum.

Sometimes the people picket the clinic on my street. The normal stuff like posters of aborted babys and signs. I don't think it's for attention at all. They genually hate the practice and want to inform people.

I ALWAYS point and laugh at the protesters. It accomplishes NOTHING to do that and I just think protesters, in this particular case, just want some quick and easy attention, they dont give about "the cause".

It might accomplish something. Someone might change ones mind about having an abortion.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

As soon as you find out about your pregnancy, you look for someone who wants to adopt. You cannot justify murder by saying, "I was sure you would grow up on the streets, so I killed you."

It seems that your anxiety over this issue has led you to be less than honest. It has been demonstrated conclusively that abortion is not murder; why do you continue to refer to it as such?

Will you answer my questions? The reason it is not illegal is because people seem to believe that a fetus is not a human. What do you believe?

That is YOUR OPINION as to why it is not illegal.

What do I believe as to what? Whether the fetus is human? I don't care, really. If the fetus was fully adult and writing novels I'd be pro-choice.

 

[livingproofGM]

Fantastic, your solution is adding MORE kids to our already over-flowing group homes and social programs?

Yet another excuse for murder....too many darn kids already

 

[livingproofGM]

What do I believe as to what? Whether the fetus is human? I don't care, really. If the fetus was fully adult and writing novels I'd be pro-choice.

No one in this room has proved that abortion is not murder, since they have not proved that the fetus is not human. I think I asked about pro-choice earlier, and what it really meant. Pro-choice means that you are for woman to chose if their kid lives or dies in the womb, right? If I'm not right about that, I asked to be corrected. I'm pro-choice about my breakfast in the morning. I like to pick and chose what I eat. I don't think that the death decision should be left to anyone but God.

 

[gwenmead]

As soon as you find out about your pregnancy, you look for someone who wants to adopt. You cannot justify murder by saying, "I was sure you would grow up on the streets, so I killed you."

I asked specifically, what are you doing to improve the quality of life of already-born children? You, as an individual? Not the generic "you".

I patiently await your answer (and that of anyone else who wishes to respond to my question).

 

[Electric Sceptic]

No one in this room has proved that abortion is not murder, since they have not proved that the fetus is not human.

It has been conclusively proven that abortion is not murder by the dictionary definition YOU cited. Abortion is not unlawful; that makes it not murder.

I think I asked about pro-choice earlier, and what it really meant. Pro-choice means that you are for woman to chose if their kid lives or dies in the womb, right? If I'm not right about that, I asked to be corrected. I'm pro-choice about my breakfast in the morning. I like to pick and chose what I eat. I don't think that the death decision should be left to anyone but God.

Good for you. Others think differently and, fortunately, our laws don't allow you to dictate your choice for everyone.

 

[livingproofGM]

It has been conclusively proven that abortion is not murder by the dictionary definition YOU cited. Abortion is not unlawful; that makes it not murder.

Because society has made it so. A few other definitions of murder are: To kill brutally or inhumanly, and To put an end to; destroy. Just because society says it's legal does not make it NOT murder. It's not illegal because the baby is not viewed as a human.

 

[Helo]

Sometimes the people picket the clinic on my street. The normal stuff like posters of aborted babys and signs. I don't think it's for attention at all. They genually hate the practice and want to inform people.

There are more efficent ways to do it, they just choose not to go those ways. They want attention, pure and simple.

It might accomplish something. Someone might change ones mind about having an abortion.

And yet all pro-lifers screech about is how the abortion rates are going up

 

[Sycophant]

That didn't answer my question. A cancer doesn't kick and move or have hands. Is a baby just a blob?

No. And neither does a human for a significant period of it's gestation. I certainly wouldn't support termination of pregnancies in the third trimester for anything other than very serious medical reasons, but in the first trimester a embryo is pretty much a blob of cells. It is certainly not capable of life outside the mother's body - I wonder if it might strictly be considered a parasite at this stage?

 

[livingproofGM]

No. And neither does a human for a significant period of it's gestation. I certainly wouldn't support termination of pregnancies in the third trimester for anything other than very serious medical reasons, but in the first trimester a embryo is pretty much a blob of cells. It is certainly not capable of life outside the mother's body - I wonder if it might strictly be considered a parasite at this stage?

They're a human at conception, a human at birth.

 

[TeddyKGB]

I said women who have unprotected sex, willingly taking part. If you willingly have unprotected sex, there is a HUGE chance that you will get pregnant, and that's due to your own neglegence. You've left yourself open to the possibitlity,a nd as an adult, you are called to accept it.

Not all pregnant women are adults. We have a number of pregnant girls/young mothers at my school, most of whom come from broken/impoverished homes. There are success stories, but the crime rates in those neighborhoods suggest the successes are depressingly rare.

Is forcing these girls to go through with their pregnancies really the best option? We can say that they should suck it up, make sacrifices and raise their children right, but is that anything but rhetoric?

 

[Sycophant]

They're a human at conception, a human at birth.

Genetically. But they're still just a bunch of cells for a significant period of their gestation.

 

[livingproofGM]

Not all pregnant women are adults. We have a number of pregnant girls/young mothers at my school, most of whom come from broken/impoverished homes. There are success stories, but the crime rates in those neighborhoods suggest the successes are depressingly rare.

Is forcing these girls to go through with their pregnancies really the best option? We can say that they should suck it up, make sacrifices and raise their children right, but is that anything but rhetoric?

What they should do is carry the baby to full term and then put them up for adoption.

 

[TeddyKGB]

They're a human at conception, a human at birth.

Does God agree? One of the more oft-cited studies suggested that up to 78% of all conceptions - humans all by your standard - will spontaneously abort (even the most conservative numbers are still around 40%).

How do you reconcile those two positions?

 

[livingproofGM]

Genetically. But they're still just a bunch of cells for a significant period of their gestation.

No, they are a human life at conception and at birth. Their physical form doesn't matter.

 

[livingproofGM]

Does God agree? One of the more oft-cited studies suggested that up to 78% of all conceptions - humans all by your standard - will spontaneously abort (even the most conservative numbers are still around 40%).

How do you reconcile those two positions?

Do you mean that the woman will miscarry?

 

[Sycophant]

Do you mean that the woman will miscarry?

No, most zygotes never become embryos.

In fact, having unprotected sex (such as with the intention of getting pregnant) will result in zygotes 'dying'. So, if you try to have a baby, you are going to kill at least some 'humans'.