Stopping abortion

[Spinrad]

I believe that studies have shown that teaching abstinence doesn't work.

"Studies" sounds suspiciously similar to science...

 

[StromRider]

"Studies" sounds suspiciously similar to science...

Science?!? Oh the horror

Better to let some person whose education consists of studying an old collection of fables and stories to do the thinking for you

 

[FadingWhispers3]

Too true. Then again, prolife was never strictly prolife to begin with, but always a passenger in someone else's car. The only dangerous knowledge is incomplete knowledge. Certain folk would like to believe abstaining solves everything. But even dogmatists must bow to reality sometimes. Or am I being too generous?

 

[levi501]

Absurd...like devoting your life to mythological beings?

Silly... it's not absurd if enough people believe... or say they do.

 

[Lycaenidae]

Lol

Nah….I just think that your ideal is absurd and I thought I would have some fun by sounding absurd myself, but I bet that you already knew that. Your nit-picking my spelling errors is just proof that I was successful at my evil ploy.

However, I see teaching kids how to have sex just as absurd as some of the things that I jokingly suggested. I would prefer that we teach them about not having sex until they are married and remind them that killing babies is not cool.

You don't have to teach kids how to have sex. They figure that part out on their own. Beetles have sex; it doesn't take a brain. What does take a brain is preventing disease transmission and pregnancy.

 

[Lycaenidae]

Something has struck me recently about the 'pro-life' crowd. We all know they oppose abortion. They don't want it to take place. Fair enough.

But I have to believe that they're not stupid. They must realise that illegalising it will do very little or nothing to actually reduce the number of abortions that happen. After all, abortion has happened, on large scales, always, whether it was legal or not. So they must realise that illegalising it won't stop it. So while illegalising it might make them feel a little better, it won't really help in the battle they are fighting (ie., to stop/limit abortions).

So...what WOULD stop it? I would think the most obvious way to lower the number of abortions would be to increase sex education and availability of cheap contraceptives. Why are those who oppose abortion never for this option?

The only conclusion I can come to is that while they might be against abortion, that's not really the issue. What they oppose is what they see as sexual immorality, and abortion is one consequence of that.

So they don't WANT to make sex safer...because that'll just mean people are more likely to have sex. They want to keep sex 'dangerous' (ie., more likely to have adverse consequences such as disease/unwanted pregnancy) in an effort to persuade people not to have it.

Otherwise, if they really were so concerned about preventing abortions, they'd be handing out free condoms instead of picketing clinics.

And that sucks.

These folks aren't really interested in preventing disease transmission or unwanted children. This is evidenced by how little they care for the children once they are born and how little they have done to help people living with diseases like HIV (especially homosexuals). What they are concerned about is punishing people for things they deem immoral. If you remove disease and pregnancy as necessary consequences of sex, you remove the punishment. And these people apparently need the threat of punishment to force them into leading a moral life.

 

[The-Doctor]

I dont think making abortians illegal will stop them from happening, it didn't before it was made legal.

 

[Spherical Time]

I dont think making abortians illegal will stop them from happening, it didn't before it was made legal.

It also ended up killing a lot of poor desperate women.

Making abortions illegal is something of a class issue as well: Rich women will be able to fly to a country where abortion is legal to have their procedures done. For everyone else it'll come down to a coat hanger.

 

[Spinrad]

The MIC wants to be in control of how their peasants reproduce, and they have duped the fundamentalists into thinking it's about something it isn't. Is what I think.

 

[loriersea]

Otherwise, if they really were so concerned about preventing abortions, they'd be handing out free condoms instead of picketing clinics.

I agree. But, I think it's more of a "see no evil" kind of thing. As long as abortion isn't legal--as long as it goes on in back alleys and they can pretend it's not happening--then it's okay.

 

[Bevlina]

Staff Review.

 

[Bevlina]

You may continue.

 

[Bevlina]

*Mod Hat On*


This thread has been closed for a cleanup. Please continue without thread hijacking, and without trolling posts. The rules are there for a purpose so I encourage everyone to follow them to avoid further issues.

Thankyou.

*Mod Hat Off.

 

[Exhausted]

Alright, then. I believe the distribution of condoms and sexual education would be benificial to our nation's youth.

 

[Maxwell511]

Alright, then. I believe the distribution of condoms and sexual education would be benificial to our nation's youth.

For free btw especially just for the health reasons. I am actually pro-life even though it seems I'm the only atheist that is.

 

[Sycophant]

However, I see teaching kids how to have sex just as absurd as some of the things that I jokingly suggested. I would prefer that we teach them about not having sex until they are married and remind them that killing babies is not cool.

Evidently the people who are currently seeking abortions figured out the sex thing. What they didn't figure out was the not getting pregnant thing. So, what part of the education do you think was missing?

Were they told all about the effects anf outcomes of sex, the method with which to make it safer, and the ways in which to employ those methods?

Or were they told to not have sex, that condoms and the pill were useless and remember, don't have sex?

Or maybe, even better, they were told nothing?

Or best of all, maybe they were told any of these things, but were unable to obtain any birth control because they were too expensive, difficult or embarassing to obtain, or required a prescription which needed a parent's consent.

People have sex, no matter what you tell them. Most studies seem to say that the percentage who do so doesn't change a whole lot regardless of what they are taught. THEY WILL HAVE SEX.

When they do have sex (and they will, remember PEOPLE HAVE SEX) they should know about the real risks and the measures available to counter those. Because otherwise they will have sex anyway, because PEOPLE HAVE SEX.

If you want to reduce abortions, then reduce unintentional pregnancies. To do this either make people stop having sex (telling them "don't have sex" has proven ineffective, because PEOPLE HAVE SEX) or increase their awareness of safer sex, and make those method readily availble to them.

 

[troglodyte]

you mean eliminating the embarassment to American education that is Abstainence Only Education?... thank you.

I believe that abortion is an option that should be given to those who need it. As much as its undesireable to have to resort to it, it is usually in the mother's best interests if she wants an abortion. I am not in any way condoning irresponsible sex though, and limits should be set on it. none of that partial birth stuff, that's just horrible...

 

[knightlight72]

Why can't the woman have the child, and then give it to someone who wants the child?

 

[Spinrad]

Why can't the woman have the child, and then give it to someone who wants the child?

She


CAN!

Why don't those who want some kids take care of the kids that already EXIST!?

 

[Silent Bob]

Why can't the woman have the child, and then give it to someone who wants the child?

I thought this was a prefered option to abortion till I mentioned it to two of my friends a guy and a woman. Oh boy they hit the roof.

It can be an option in places like Toronto or NY where the idea of a tightly knit community has all but become extinct but in small towns the stigma for the child can be pretty bad.

In my familly there has been a case where two people adopted but then everybody around them must walk on egg shells making sure the child never finds out the truth. I also had a friend who was adopted and found out later the truth and that really f*ed her up good.

Also let us not forget the woman's feelings about this, it is difficult to feel a human being grow inside you for 9 months and then give it away like it is an old coat.

In many cases especially when looking from the outside people think adoption is a viable option but it IS a difficult choice and for many women a choice they will not consider.

There are many ways in which the prolife people can help and that is NOT by trying to make abortion illegal or make people face their punishment.

My suggestions:

1) Help single mothers and make keeping the baby a more attractive choice. Offer moral, financial, practical support. Help end the stigma and provide better opportunities.

2) Educate children on the proper ways to keep safe and responsible. Teach condom use, pill use and other methods and THEN also say that abstinence and sensible behaviour are the best methods but if they choose to "play" they should know better than to mess their lives up and the lives of others.