step-by-step

[Marilyn C]

 

[Douggg]

Since the covenant is confirmed for one week or one Deuteronomy 31 Sabbatical cycle, if the next cycle (2029) is the Daniel 9:27 one that is confirmed then why would a reading of the law in 2028 be part of the Daniel 9:27 covenant that is confirmed?

The schmita year (the year of release) is the 7th year of the 7 year cycle. The Jewish sites say that 2028-2029 is the next schmita year.

So to be the 7th year, the schmita year, and also on the feast of tabernacles -

the confirming of the covenant would have to be in the fall of 2028, shortly after Rosh Hashanah, on the feast of tabernacles for 2028

Rosh Hashanah (2028) September 20-22
feast of Tabernachles (2028) October 4-11

_______________________________________________________________________________

Personally, grafted branch, I think an easier way to think of it - is right after the Gog/Magog event, the confirming of the covenant event by the Antichrist will take place.

In Ezekiel 39, the Gog/Magog is in the first 16 verses, which tell about the destruction of Gog's army, following by 7 months of clean-up and burial of the dead bodies of Gog's army. And by 7 years of burning what can be salvaged from Gog's army instead of burning wood.

Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20, Ezekiel is told to prophesy again about a huge event that will involve armies destroyed in Israel. Those verses match up with Revelation 19:17-18, the Armageddon event, which Jesus destroys those armies that will have gathered to make war on him.

The remainder of Ezekiel 39, it is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having returned to this earth, setting his glory among the heathen nations - i.e. which he will rule with a rod of iron, during the 1000 years of his millennial rule. No dictators during that time.

________________________________________________________________________________

So - that makes it simple. Gog/Magog event, immediately followed by the confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant event by the Antichrist, for those 7 years following Gog/Magog.

How all that transpires as far as the Jewish traditions of their calculations - remains to be seen.

But I would say that the Gog/Magog event relationship to the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 is 100% reliable - albeit we can't say for certain what year the Gog/Magog event will take place.

I think we are in the watching stage right now. What do you think ?

 

[Marilyn C]

The schmita year (the year of release) is the 7th year of the 7 year cycle. The Jewish sites say that 2028-2029 is the next schmita year.

So to be the 7th year, the schmita year, and also on the feast of tabernacles -

the confirming of the covenant would have to be in the fall of 2028, shortly after Rosh Hashanah, on the feast of tabernacles for 2028

Rosh Hashanah (2028) September 20-22
feast of Tabernachles (2028) October 4-11

_______________________________________________________________________________

Personally, grafted branch, I think an easier way to think of it - is right after the Gog/Magog event, the confirming of the covenant event by the Antichrist will take place.

In Ezekiel 39, the Gog/Magog is in the first 16 verses, which tell about the destruction of Gog's army, following by 7 months of clean-up and burial of the dead bodies of Gog's army. And by 7 years of burning what can be salvaged from Gog's army instead of burning wood.

Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20, Ezekiel is told to prophesy again about a huge event that will involve armies destroyed in Israel. Those verses match up with Revelation 19:17-18, the Armageddon event, which Jesus destroys those armies that will have gathered to make war on him.

The remainder of Ezekiel 39, it is Jesus Himself speaking in the text having returned to this earth, setting his glory among the heathen nations - i.e. which he will rule with a rod of iron, during the 1000 years of his millennial rule. No dictators during that time.

________________________________________________________________________________

So - that makes it simple. Gog/Magog event, immediately followed by the confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant event by the Antichrist, for those 7 years following Gog/Magog.

How all that transpires as far as the Jewish traditions of their calculations - remains to be seen.

But I would say that the Gog/Magog event relationship to the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 is 100% reliable - albeit we can't say for certain what year the Gog/Magog event will take place.

I think we are in the watching stage right now. What do you think ?

Yes, I too believe we are watching the stage being set right now.

As to when the Peace treaty (covenant) is, I see that we count back from the 15th of Purim, for that is 1,335th day from the A/C. It is Israel`s national celebration of deliverance. (Esther 9: 18 - 21) Thus the fulfillment will be after the 7 years.

Note: Jerusalem celebrates that on the 15th of Adar.

 

[Douggg]

View attachment 331069

Hi Marilyn,

Where are you finding the term Israel's 7 years in the bible ? And why is it not lining up to end with the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 ?

I think you are trying to fit the 1290 days and the 1335 days onto a chart, so that they start on day 1260, for some reason And you are calling the subsequent run-over as Israel's 7 years, correct ?

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The great tribulation and the seven years all end on the day of Jesus's return. There is no run-over of the 1290 days and the 1335 days. Both of those begin 1335 days before the day of Jesus's return.

 

[Douggg]

As to when the Peace treaty (covenant) is, I see that we count back from the 15th of Purim, for that is 1,335th day from the A/C. It is Israel`s national celebration of deliverance. (Esther 9: 18 - 21) Thus the fulfillment will be after the 7 years.

What do you mean "from the A/C" ? Is Israel not delivered the day of Jesus's return ?

I think Purim is a Jewish holiday that they celebrate every year of thwarting Haman's plot to to destroy , kill, and annihilate all Jews, in a single day (https://www.chabad.org/holidays/purim/article_cdo/aid/645309/jewish/What-Is-Purim.htm)

Why count back 1335 days from a holiday based on deliverance from Haman's plot - instead of from the day of Jesus's return ?

The 1335 days begin with the setting up of the abomination of desolation statue image.

 

[grafted branch]

I think we are in the watching stage right now. What do you think ?

Well, we may be in the watching stage but I would try to watch what’s spiritually going on more than current events in the EU or Israel.

Personally I do try to take an honest look at other views like yours from time to time. While I do find faults with all the different views, I’m still leaning toward the preterist view.

I think the covenant in Daniel 9:27 was confirmed by Jesus and that’s a major point where the argument for the different views takes place. I do at times put aside that area of debate to look further into a view such as yours.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The great tribulation and the seven years all end on the day of Jesus's return. There is no run-over of the 1290 days and the 1335 days. Both of those begin 1335 days before the day of Jesus's return.


View attachment 331072

This chart is unbiblical. Nowhere in Scripture that says there will be a period of 1,335 days of "great tribulation" on top of a period of 1,290 days of "tribulation", plus 45 days. Where is scripture for 45 days? That's absurd.

Here is a BIBLICAL chart.

 

[Douggg]

This chart is unbiblical. Nowhere in Scripture that says there will be a period of 1,335 days of "great tribulation" on top of a period of 1,290 days of "tribulation", plus 45 days. Where is scripture for 45 days? That's absurd.

Here is a BIBLICAL chart.

View attachment 331116

On your chart you have the abomination of desolation as being 1290 days from the messiah cutoff. What are you claiming was the abomination of desolation?

Revelation 11:12 says 3 1/2 days - not 3 1/2 years.


The feast of tabernacles is a feast to be observed by the children of Israel according to the Mt. Sinai covenant requirements. It is not something that Christians are required to do.

 

[Douggg]

This chart is unbiblical. Nowhere in Scripture that says there will be a period of 1,335 days of "great tribulation" on top of a period of 1,290 days of "tribulation", plus 45 days. Where is scripture for 45 days? That's absurd.

The 1290 days of tribulation of those days (a phrase from Matthew 24:29) is the first 1290 days of the great tribulation timeframe of 1335 days.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


If you look at the chart, at the end of the tribulation of those days (1290 days), the sign of the Son of Man appears in heaven (sickle in hand on the accompanying illustration, from Revelation 14:14).

The powers of heaven shaken in Matthew 24:29 is the sixth seal event of Revelation 6, which sends terror into the hearts of the evil men of the world. The beast, the false prophet, and Satan in response to the imminent judgment on them, convince the kings of the earth to assemble their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus - Revelation 16:13-15.

The 45 days will be the allotted time they will have to assemble their armies, and also during that period they will take half of Jerusalem as hostages (Zechariah 14:2).

 

[eleos1954]

eleos, how does the pope or anyone else defile the sanctuary (temple) in heaven, in order that God's temple in heaven needs to be cleansed ?

Also there has been no earthly sanctuary (temple) here on earth in Jerusalem during the entire reign of Popes. The last temple was destroyed in 70 ad.

The pope usurps (defiles) the divinity of Christ, (forgiveness of sins, changing of the Lords Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day) ... the pope presents himself is the vicar of Christ (replacement of Christ on earth)

If we study the earthly temple (sanctuary) system, we learn about Jesus work in the heavenly sanctuary.

In the typical service of the earthly sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus.

It's not about an earthly temple (sanctuary) ... it's about the heavenly.

Everything is spiritual and all about Jesus and what He is doing in the heavenly sanctuary.

The earthly sanctuary was a “copy and shadow of the heavenly things” (Hebrews 8:5, NKJV). It was modeled after the heavenly sanctuary, which was shown to Moses, so we could learn about what happens in Heaven.

“For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf” (Hebrews 9:24, ESV).

In the earthly tabernacle, after the lamb was slain, its blood was sprinkled on the wall of the sanctuary. This symbolically transferred the sin from the sinner to the sanctuary.

The sinner was free and forgiven, but their sin was still in the sanctuary.

And just like the earthly service had a yearly Day of Atonement to clean sin out of the sanctuary, the heavenly Sanctuary will also have a time of purification.

The heavenly Sanctuary must also be cleansed.

Looking back at the Day of Atonement rituals in the earthly Sanctuary. Remember, there were two goats involved in the earthly Day of Atonement ritual.

The first goat served the sacrificial death, as a substitute for the sinner, “for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life” (Leviticus 17:11, ESV). This represented Jesus, as He was innocent, and it is His blood that cleanses us.

The second goat, the scapegoat, bore the blame of the sins because it symbolized the ultimate author sin. The wickedness of all Israel’s sin was symbolically transferred to that goat and it was banished and set loose into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:20-22) thus removing the sins from the Israelite camp, Similarly, eventually Satan will be banished during the Millennium.

Just like the yearly Day of Atonement was to cleanse the earthly Sanctuary, the Heavenly sanctuary also needs to be cleansed.

After all the cases have been decided (judgement), Jesus says, “I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12, NKJV).

Soon the words will be spoken, “He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still” (Revelation 22:11, NKJV).

Once Jesus speaks these words, the case of every person will have been decided (final judgement). He’ll have finished His work of intercession in the sanctuary in heaven. The last sin in the sanctuary in heaven has been blotted out. The heavenly sanctuary has been cleansed of sin ... and He will return and take all the saved to heaven for the 1,000 years. (but this is not the full end)

It's all about Jesus and the heavenly sanctuary ..... not an earthly one. He does not dwell in sanctuaries made by man.

We confess our sins .... we are forgiven, He covers our sins with His blood ... our sin remains in the heavenly sanctuary until Jesus returns and at that time we will become one with Him (at-one-ment) atonement. The heavenly sanctuary cleansed for eternity.

Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Here is a simplified "step-by-step" outline of the coming 7 year 70th week.


1. day 1 confirmation of the covenant by "the Antichrist" - 7 years begin.

2. 3 years later - the ToD (transgression of desolation) act by the Antichrist (end of the false messianic age).

3. Hostilities break out and "the revealed man of sin" is assassinated.

4. Returns to life, and becomes "the beast".

5. AoD (abomination of desolation) statue image made of the beast, placed on the temple mount, the great tribulation begins on day 1185 of the 7 years. 1335 days before Jesus returns.

6(66). events of the great tribulation.

7. Jesus returns to end the great tribulation.

No mention of the death of Christ that is said to occur after the 69th week (which places it within the 70th week)? This is just sad.

Daniel 9:
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[Douggg]

In the earthly tabernacle, after the lamb was slain, its blood was sprinkled on the wall of the sanctuary. This symbolically transferred the sin from the sinner to the sanctuary.

The lamb itself was innocent of sin. It's shed blood sprinkled on the wall of the sanctuary cleansed the temple that had come in contact with humans, i.e. the priests.

Metaphorically, Christians are the temple of God, and we are cleansed by the shed blood of Jesus - the Lamb of God. This temporal, metaphorical temple which we dwell, though, will die, destroyed by sin.

The heavenly temple is not going to be destroyed, as sin is not allowed to propagate there. Satan was cast out of the third heaven as soon as iniquity was found in him. Likewise with a third of the angels who joined in with rebellion against God.

I don't disagree with you, though, that the earthly tabernacle and later the temple were patterned after the eternal heavenly temple.

 

[Douggg]

No mention of the death of Christ that is said to occur after the 69th week (which places it within the 70th week)? This is just sad.

Places it at the end of 483 years. Jesus rode into Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah. Four days later he was crucified.

See that period at the end of my first sentence ? That is the 4 days. The period does not continue into the next sentence.

The space between the two sentences is the time of the gentiles.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The 1290 days of tribulation of those days (a phrase from Matthew 24:29) is the first 1290 days of the great tribulation timeframe of 1335 days.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

No the great tribulation FOR the elect in the church will take place after their testimony is finished (end of 1,260th day and before 1,290th day). And the two witnesses will be lying dead for symbolically 3-1/2 days which takes place between 1,260th day and 1,290th day. After this, the judgment of the harlot starts on 1,290th day and last (for one symbolical hour) until the 1,335th day when Christ returns.

So no, the period of 1,290 days is not the time of great tribulation for the Elect because they have already come out of unfaithful congregations where they standing afar off witnessing the fall of the city (church). This is the sign of Christ's coming where the Elect knows that Christ's return is near and has everything to do with the judgment of his unfaithful congregation rather than your belief of the physical war in Israel with a physical temple, blah blah blah.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

This will be on 1,335th day when Christ returns. Not before.

The powers of heaven shaken in Matthew 24:29 is the sixth seal event of Revelation 6, which sends terror into the hearts of the evil men of the world. The beast, the false prophet, and Satan in response to the imminent judgment on them, convince the kings of the earth to assemble their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus - Revelation 16:13-15.

The sixth seal is about the judgment of the CHURCH where the false prophets and christs rule. Where they will tell you that their church have christ in their church but Christ warned not to believe them and stay out. Why? Because Christ is judging them! Read for yourself in Matthew 24. This have everything to do with new testament congregation. Not the city in the Middle East.

Mat 24:23-25
(23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(25) Behold, I have told you before.

The 45 days will be the allotted time they will have to assemble their armies, and also during that period they will take half of Jerusalem as hostages (Zechariah 14:2).

There is no Biblical reference for 45 days so you make it up.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Places it at the end of 483 years.

The word "after" does not mean "at the end of". Please stop this dishonest tactic of redefining words to support your doctrine.

 

[Douggg]

The word "after" does not mean "at the end of". Please stop this dishonest tactic of redefining words to support your doctrine.

The 4 days are 4 days into the undefined gap (2023 years so far) between the 62 weeks (69 weeks total) and the 7 year 70th week. The 70th week has not begun yet.

62 weeks unto messiah, Jesus rode into Jerusalem hailed as the messiah. That's what I show on my chart.

After 62 weeks, 4 days after, the messiah is cutoff. That is what I show on my chart.

The prince who shall come is the little horn person - who becomes the Antichrist and then later becomes the beast.

 

[Douggg]

There is no Biblical reference for 45 days so you make it up.

It is simple math. 1335-1290 = 45

1290 days to the sign of the Son of Man in heaven + 45 days as the kings of the earth gather their armies together at Armageddon = the 1335th day, the day of Jesus's Return.

In Revelation 16:13-16. the kings of the earth gather their armies at Armageddon.

In Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It is simple math. 1335-1290 = 45

1290 days to the sign of the Son of Man in heaven + 45 days as the kings of the earth gather their armies together at Armageddon = the 1335th day, the day of Jesus's Return.

In Revelation 16:13-16. the kings of the earth gather their armies at Armageddon.

In Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

If the Scripture does not say 45 days, it does not say it. You make it up with your silly mathematic gymnastics to fit your flawed chart.

Next!

 

[eleos1954]

The lamb itself was innocent of sin. It's shed blood sprinkled on the wall of the sanctuary cleansed the temple that had come in contact with humans, i.e. the priests.

Metaphorically, Christians are the temple of God, and we are cleansed by the shed blood of Jesus - the Lamb of God. This temporal, metaphorical temple which we dwell, though, will die, destroyed by sin.

The heavenly temple is not going to be destroyed, as sin is not allowed to propagate there. Satan was cast out of the third heaven as soon as iniquity was found in him. Likewise with a third of the angels who joined in with rebellion against God.

I don't disagree with you, though, that the earthly tabernacle and later the temple were patterned after the eternal heavenly temple.

The lamb itself was innocent of sin. Yes, this is why only Jesus can save.

I didn't say the heavenly temple is going to be destroyed ..... all the sins of mankind are stored in it until judgement is complete and Jesus cleanses the entire heavenly temple of sins stored therein .... actual day of atonement ..... we live and have faith in the promises made .... those promises will not actually come to fruition until Jesus returns.

Satan was indeed cast out of heaven ... so sin could not propagate there. There is no sinning going on in heaven .... but the sins of mankind are stored there ... until judgement has taken place and Jesus returns ... THEN we will be one with Him (atonement).... both physically and spiritually .... right now we have a spiritual connection with Him.

"I don't disagree with you, though, that the earthly tabernacle and later the temple were patterned after the eternal heavenly temple"

Good ..... then go read about how the earthly tabernacle was cleansed.

The earthly sanctuary served to illustrate the plan of salvation.

Every day, sinners brought their sacrifices to the sanctuary, where the people were forgiven their confessed sins as the sins were, in a sense, transferred to the sanctuary. As a result, the sanctuary became contaminated. Therefore, a process of purification was needed in order to cleanse the sanctuary from the sins recorded therein. It was called the Day of Atonement and took place once a year (see Leviticus chapter 16).

The confessed sins of those who have accepted Jesus have been “transferred” to the heavenly sanctuary, just as the sins of the repentant Israelites were transferred to the earthly sanctuary.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The 4 days are 4 days into the undefined gap (2023 years so far) between the 62 weeks (69 weeks total) and the 7 year 70th week. The 70th week has not begun yet.

62 weeks unto messiah, Jesus rode into Jerusalem hailed as the messiah. That's what I show on my chart.

After 62 weeks, 4 days after, the messiah is cutoff. That is what I show on my chart.




The prince who shall come is the little horn person - who becomes the Antichrist and then later becomes the beast.

The word "after" does not mean "at the end of". Please stop this dishonest tactic of redefining words to support your doctrine.