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Stem Cell Research

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th1bill

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... Recently I have been confronted with a group of people that I find to be very distressing. Although they do not see themselves as such, they are very immoral. Their beliefs cut a wide path accross society and they are gaining momentum at an incredible rate. Some of the people will object that I am placing them into one group but the truth is that we are all in the same group to some extent. We are, everyone of us, sinners. Some of us are in repentence, daily, and are doing our best to please God and on the other end of the spectrum are the God haters.
... Some will be offended that I have lumped them in with that "Bible thumping" bunch of Christians and others will protest that they are under God's grace and therefore, not at all like the bunch that harvests T-cells from the infants they just murdered. The truth of the matter is that God sees everyone of us in the same light as explained in Isa. 64:6.
... When you read this passage you will do well to remember what I have heard from a number of studied men, The rag spoken of here that resembles our righteousness is the rag used by a woman during her menstrual cycle before anything had been invented for this purpose. Without the imputed righteousness of the Christ, that is how filthy God sees us to be.
... And you wonder what in the world does that have to do with Stem Cell research. There are many in the church today that have arrived at different levels of acceptance of the harvesting of Infantile Stem Cells. Some are even Elders in the Church Government. Some almost justify and others do justify the abortions performed today to harvest those stem cells.
... Each of these people have gone through a process of being turned away from the Word of God and most of them have completed this cycle without even thinking about it. The very popular battle cry from the Abortion Clinics is that there is such promise in this research and Christians, without caution and mental exercise have begun to echo that call to battle.
... What is the truth then? Let's begin with the beggining and that is that God is omnipotent. Because He is God has the ability to bless anything He chooses to Bless and to condemn to failure anything He chooses nit ti bless.
... I have read, recently that therde are fifty or better success stories in the Stem Cell Research field and that one of them is in the trreatment of Diabetes. So what am I harping on the research about? None of the sucesses are the result of research completed on people using crops harvested from slaughtered infants. If we examine the situation closly, we find that this research does not lack for funding.
... The much hated Free Market is a truly wonderful thing to watch. Rich, money smart people are most often called greedy and while I remain away from that camp, in observing them I have noticed something about them that is important. If a thing, anything is discovered, they begin, right away, to acess it's value and it's potential value. If an item, such as Adult stem cell research, has value or contains the prospect o gaining value, they begin to invest their millions in the project because they see some sort of profit in the endeavor. If the case is one that has failed to show potential, such as Infantile Stem Cell Research, some will invest early on but when the endevor looses all promise of success, they withdraw and cut their losses.
... If we are ever to succed in the fielld of science we must discard emotion and operate solely on the basis of fact. The fact is that there has been no sucess from the murdering and the harvesting of babies and all we accomplish by doing so is to condemn ourselve into Hell.
 

LiturgyInDMinor

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the sad part is that people who tout fetal stemcell research don't realize that there have been absolutely positively NO results of benefit from the science of it. NONE, nada...ZERO results to benefit anything.
On the other hand, ADULT stem cell research has yielded quite a few results of positive potential benefit. I have no problem with adult stem cell research.

People are blind fools at times IMHO.
Just my 5 cents on this issue.
 
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StreetPreacher82

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You both make valid points. Honestly, if they want those cells so bad... why no rally for the donation of more cord blood? You can get those same cells from something that is going to be thrown away. Amazes me sometimes. Its almost as if the whole stem cell debate is brought forth just to keep the abortion rate up.
 
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Phileoeklogos

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It would be hard to even dream of the world being this messed up, if we didn't see it every day, evil used to hide in the dark, but now it parades down main street at high noon with cheering crowds, put on the whole armor of God and stand because I don't think we've seen the worst yet............
 
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StreetPreacher82

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It would be hard to even dream of the world being this messed up, if we didn't see it every day, evil used to hide in the dark, but now it parades down main street at high noon with cheering crowds, put on the whole armor of God and stand because I don't think we've seen the worst yet............

To some extent, you are right. However, Rome during the time of Christ is much worse than you might imagine. I don't think we are there yet. It may seem so because of the media and fast transition and movement of thoughts. However, we are moving in that direction.
 
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Phileoeklogos

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To some extent, you are right. However, Rome during the time of Christ is much worse than you might imagine. I don't think we are there yet. It may seem so because of the media and fast transition and movement of thoughts. However, we are moving in that direction.


I'm quite aware of how debauched Rome was, and would have to say we've already passed them by, I remember what pre 1973 America was like, evil was present, but it hid in the dark, but now it's celebrated and called good. We were never really a Christian nation but we did enjoy the benefit of a christian influenced society, that time has passed and we are seeing the effect, we've hugged up to politicians and have gotten nowhere, it's time to put away all the foolish devices and preach the Gospel, we all might have the same ministry as Jeremiah or Noah, but it's what we should have been doing all along............
 
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sealacamp

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There are many in the church today that have arrived at different levels of acceptance of the harvesting of Infantile Stem Cells.
I know what you are talking about here bill. There is no such thing as "harvested stem cells from infants" This is nothing less than murder for the sake of physical and financial gain. It is absolutely disgusting and those wonderful loving people of the left perpetuate it in the most insane way. As for people claiming Christ while endorsing such insanity have you not read, I am sure you have, where Jesus told the story of the farmer and his enemy? The reply was to let the wheat grow with the tares and to separate them at the harvest. Such is the case with this tares with wheat.

Only God truly knows our hearts and only He can decide where any of us stand in relation to Him. Yet Jesus has called us to judge the fruit that we bear and the fruit of others as well. He even went so far as to say that "by their fruit you shall know them." So we may not truly know what anyone's internal condition is but we can see what is produced.

However, Rome during the time of Christ is much worse than you might imagine. I don't think we are there yet.

Better or worse would be relevant in this case. You see it is more like different when it comes to murdered babies. In ancient times if a baby was not wanted they were thrown off a cliff, into the sea, or left in the woods for the wild animals. However I don't see any difference between what was done then and what is being done now so there is no justification for either.

Sealacamp
 
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StreetPreacher82

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Better or worse would be relevant in this case. You see it is more like different when it comes to murdered babies. In ancient times if a baby was not wanted they were thrown off a cliff, into the sea, or left in the woods for the wild animals. However I don't see any difference between what was done then and what is being done now so there is no justification for either.

Sealacamp

There was never an attempt at justification. My point is that the times aren't much worse now than they were then. Are we in a renewed dark period? Absolutely. I just disagree with the idea that we are 'worse now than ever'. We cannot judge that. Either way, you are right in that it does not matter.

The issue at hand, though, are the stem cells... not so much the signs of the times.
 
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sealacamp

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The issue at hand, though, are the stem cells... not so much the signs of the times.

That is the second part of a two part issue. That issue is the murder of the innocent for the sake of convenience. Anyone who propagates murder, makes money off of it, or participates in any way with these murdered human beings is just as guilty of the murder as if they had done it them selves. The point being they should be left to the murderers not put up for experimentation. Isn't it bad enough they they have been murdered? Should people be allowed to experiment with those that have been murdered for any reason? How is this any different than what the Nazis did to the Jews they murdered in WWII?

Sealacamp
 
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StreetPreacher82

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That is the second part of a two part issue. That issue is the murder of the innocent for the sake of convenience. Anyone who propagates murder, makes money off of it, or participates in any way with these murdered human beings is just as guilty of the murder as if they had done it them selves. The point being they should be left to the murderers not put up for experimentation. Isn't it bad enough they they have been murdered? Should people be allowed to experiment with those that have been murdered for any reason? How is this any different than what the Nazis did to the Jews they murdered in WWII?

Sealacamp

Absolutely not. Never condoned it. And it is no different. I would never deny that.
 
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eliems

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I was under the impression that most of these stem cells were to be taken from embryos in fertility clinics which were otherwise to be destroyed.

My question is: Shouldn't we be focusing on the practice of growing human embryos most of which are going to be destroyed?

To me, the question is one of life. Is there an eternal human spirit formed when the egg is fertilized? Will Heaven be populated with millions upon millions of souls who never got the chance to live out their lives?

I don't know the answer to this and so I feel that none of us have the right to "grow", "plant", or destroy human embryos and fetus once they embark on the journey, (at conception).

Stem cells from Cord Blood or from Skin cells or mature donors is fine and good and from what I hear is a better source anyway. Getting them from the unborn is an abomination!
 
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