State of Israel

[Inkfingers]

Considering what the scripture teaches the Nation of Israel is where the bulk of Last Days events take place , you can't have the collective nations that surround Israel and attack Israel if Israel does not exist

Jesus returns to save Israel from total destruction , that can't happen if Israel does not exit

Israel is where 2 Thess 2 takes place , I am not going to itemize everything that will come to pass
but Israel IS center stage for the Last Days

I am not doubting that Israel has a role.

I'm questioning whether the secular State of Israel is the Israel of prophecy, or a counterfeit.

 

[Douggg]

Didn't I already told you that I used to teach your doctrine before, remember? I disagree with your prophecy interpretation concerning Israel, little horn, 7 years, etc.

No you did not teach what I am saying. You did not teach the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years is based upon Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

You did not teach for the person to become the Antichrist, he must be anointed the King of Israel (illegitimate).

What you may have taught was broadly-speaking a futurist view of bible prophecy.

 

[seventysevens]

I am not doubting that Israel has a role.

I'm questioning whether the secular State of Israel is the Israel of prophecy, or a counterfeit.

Do you have scripture that says Israel will not be secular ?

 

[Inkfingers]

Do you have scripture that says Israel will not be secular ?

When has Israel ever been secular before?

If a tiger were reborn it would have stripes. If it did not have stripes, you'd be well placed to ask how it's a tiger.

 

[TribulationSigns]

No you did not teach what I am saying. You did not teach the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years is based upon Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

You did not teach for the person to become the Antichrist, he must be anointed the King of Israel (illegitimate).

What you may have taught was broadly-speaking a futurist view of bible prophecy.

Whatever. You did not even know my teaching before I came here. Anyhow, your position as I see it remains refuted.

 

[seventysevens]

When has Israel ever been secular before?

If a tiger were reborn it would have stripes. If it did not have stripes, you'd be well placed to ask how it's a tiger.

lol
scripture never said that Israel would be a Holy nation when it is re-established , that is just your assumption - so it be a bit unrealistic for prophecy to fulfill your assumptions

 

[Inkfingers]

lol
scripture never said that Israel would be a Holy nation when it is re-established , that is just your assumption - so it be a bit unrealistic for prophecy to fulfill your assumptions

When has it ever NOT been a holy nation?

How can you say it comes back if that which happens is different to what came before?

And it would only be holy with Christ.

If I paint a table pink and call it a pig...would it be a pig?

 

[seventysevens]

When has it ever NOT been a holy nation?

How can you say it comes back if that which happens is different to what came before?

And it would only be holy with Christ.

If I paint a table pink and call it a pig...would it be a pig?

lol -like I been saying to you - you are making assumptions - yea there is a scripture that calls Israel a holy nation , but ........wait for it ........
Israel crucified Christ ! ....how holy is that ?
Gods word say---->

20 Out in the open wisdom calls aloud,
she raises her voice in the public square;
21 on top of the wall she cries out,
at the city gate she makes her speech:

22 “How long will you who are simple love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?

23 Repent at my rebuke!
Then I will pour out my thoughts to you,
I will make known to you my teachings.

24 But since you refuse to listen when I call
and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,

25 since you disregard all my advice
and do not accept my rebuke,

26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—

27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.

28 “Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me,

29 since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the Lord.

30 Since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,

31 they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.

32 For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them;

33 but whoever listens to me will live in safety
and be at ease, without fear of harm.”

 

[shilohsfoal]

I am not doubting that Israel has a role.

I'm questioning whether the secular State of Israel is the Israel of prophecy, or a counterfeit.

The Israeli goverment or should I say about 6 people decided to call thier new goverment and its country "Israel".
Since then the members of that goverment and thier leaders have called themselves Israel.
Though it calls itself Israel,I call it the little horn.
I do believe some of the occupants out of that little country will be able to overcome that goverment,its lies,and its corruption and will inherit that country as well as much of the land surrounding it and they willbe called Israel .

Exodus 4:22 Then tell Pharaoh that this is what the LORD says: 'Israel is My firstborn son,

 

[bjdea1]

Are you saying that based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was not taken "first" to the Jews for a period of about 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles?

The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

............................................

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.


Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

...................................................................

Did the angel Gabriel come to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would bring in the New Covenant already promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel forgot to even mention the New Covenant?

Hebrews 10:16-18
.

I still disagree however I will keep an open mind regarding your points. I currently still believe that Daniel 9:27 is talking about the Anti-Christ for reasons I stated in a previous post, but I can see that what you say is an alternate view worth further investigation, so I'll be looking into the matter more.

God Bless

 

[bjdea1]

I am not doubting that Israel has a role.

I'm questioning whether the secular State of Israel is the Israel of prophecy, or a counterfeit.

That's what I believe. I believe that the modern state of Israel we see today is indeed a counterfeit Israel.

They are going to build their 3rd temple soon - and if you think about how Jesus Christ would view this 3rd temple that too makes the matter clear. The 3rd temple will be a great offence to Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross. The 3rd temple they will build is actually going to be built for the Anti-Christ, so the modern day state of Israel is actually setting up Jerusalem for the Anti-Christ and his kingdom, they are not setting things up for Jesus Christ.

 

[BABerean2]

I believe that the modern state of Israel we see today is indeed a counterfeit Israel.

You are correct.

.

 

[Traveling teacher]

there is always a remnant in most every nation including Israel
romans 11:1-5

dont know if i would call very many nations on earth christian as a whole
but there are nations that Jesus and the gospel is growing....

maybe comunist china or a few africa nations could be Christian

 

[seventysevens]

That's what I believe. I believe that the modern state of Israel we see today is indeed a counterfeit Israel.

They are going to build their 3rd temple soon - and if you think about how Jesus Christ would view this 3rd temple that too makes the matter clear. The 3rd temple will be a great offence to Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross. The 3rd temple they will build is actually going to be built for the Anti-Christ, so the modern day state of Israel is actually setting up Jerusalem for the Anti-Christ and his kingdom, they are not setting things up for Jesus Christ.

While you are correct in some of what you say , it is not being a counterfeit Israel when you consider the entire bible account . There will be a blessed Israel where Jesus will reign from on the same location that the present Israel is located , it is understanding what the prophecies say that needs to be understood

Just as Jesus knew he would be crucified before he came to earth , to be crucified is why he came to earth , as that is the only way that all of humankind would be able to spend eternity with HIM .
Jesus knows everything , there is nothing he does not know before it happens , Jesus had been telling his disciples all along that the prophetic scriptures Must be fulfilled , just as he referred to when he healed the soldiers ear in the garden, and also he knew beforehand that Judas would betray Him for 30 pieces of silver .

Jesus spoke of that at the last supper and when Jesus pointed out who Jesus was in the night
The orthodox Jews are partially blinded now just as they were in Jesus time on earth . They have longed to have their nation again and resume the old ways of their ancient history . They love YHWH Almighty God, but are blinded and do not understand that the Great I AM is actually Jesus so they are looking for their messiah to come being blinded to the fact that Jesus is the messiah , just as the messianic Jews understand this and have accepted Jesus as Lord of all.

The temple that will be built will be in honor to worship YHWH God and they will resume their old traditions being blinded to who Jesus actually is .
But they are not building the temple for the Anti- Christ , they are building it for YHWH as they do not believe in an Anti-Christ because they are expecting their messiah to come and because they have not yet repented of their sins , they will be blinded by the false messiah/Anti-Christ and accept the strong delusion - Just as in the scripture I posted previously where God is saying --

24 But since you refuse to listen when I call
and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,

25 since you disregard all my advice
and do not accept my rebuke,

26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—

27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.

28 “Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me,

29 since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the Lord.

30 Since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,

31 they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.

they will accept the false messiah and calamity will fall upon them because they spurned what the Lord said to do and repent

It is all a part of the fulfillment of prophecy

As a Christian we can see what will happen and and some thinking in a carnal manner may call it counterfeit but that is not a correct word for it as when a person choose to counterfeit anything , they are knowingly intently creating a counterfeit - as in counterfeit money , the counterfeiter knows it is a fake trying to pass it off as genuine.

Israel has no intent to pass off anything fake as genuine - they sincerely believe deeply that they are being genuine - which is how they will fall for the strong delusion thee Anti-Christ delivers as it is being sent by God to cause them to believe the lie/ strong delusion ......because they refuse to repent and refuse to listen to the LORD

Some will repent and those that do will , their lives will be spared , those who refuse to listen to the LORD and repent will die , just like any gentile that refuses to repent will die

 

[TribulationSigns]

I still disagree however I will keep an open mind regarding your points. I currently still believe that Daniel 9:27 is talking about the Anti-Christ for reasons I stated in a previous post, but I can see that what you say is an alternate view worth further investigation, so I'll be looking into the matter more.

Not according to the CONTEXT.

Daniel's Seventy Weeks

 

[Douggg]

When has it ever NOT been a holy nation?

How can you say it comes back if that which happens is different to what came before?

And it would only be holy with Christ.

If I paint a table pink and call it a pig...would it be a pig?

I haven't been following the conversation, okay? But I think if you packaged "holy" as meaning a nation set apart for God for God's special purpose, then Israel over there right now is holy in that respect, although many of them of Israel don't act it.

I think though, if seventysevens package his statements to say Israel is not a perfectly righteous nation right now, I think he would have a point.

 

[Inkfingers]

I haven't been following the conversation, okay? But I think if you packaged "holy" as meaning a nation set apart for God for God's special purpose, then is holy in that respect, although many of them of Israel don't act it.

I think though, if seventysevens package his statements to say Israel is not a perfectly righteous nation right now, I think he would have a point.

I think it is down to how much of modern "Israel" is in apostasy. Biblical Israel, even when denying the Messiah when He walked the Earth, would never have given the Temple Mount back to the Muslims or allowed Gay Pride parades in Jaffa. Now it is a secular (some might say Godless) place that turns its back on both the Old and New covenants in favour of a Babel (ie: an attempt by man to make paradise by his own power and in his own image).

 

[Douggg]

I think it is down to how much of modern "Israel" is in apostasy. Biblical Israel, even when denying the Messiah when He walked the Earth, would never have given the Temple Mount back to the Muslims or allowed Gay Pride parades in Jaffa. Now it is a secular (some might say Godless) place that turns its back on both the Old and New covenants in favour of a Babel (ie: an attempt by man to make paradise by his own power and in his own image).

You are citing the fringe element in the homosexual demonstrations. And when the Jews captured the temple mount, the leading rabbi of Israel wanted to blow it up - and the military commander told him not to proceed any further or else he would be arrested.

Everything fits within bible prophecy. It was not time for the Jews to remove the dome and build their temple again.

Israel is in a state of unbelief that Jesus is the messiah. But Israel believes that God of their ancestors is their source of reliance and belief.

They are wearing those kippah's at the temple mount for a reason. And the Haredi Jews in Israel are on the extreme religious side of the scale. There's a mixed bag of secular and religious Jews in Israel.

 

[Inkfingers]

You are citing the fringe element in the homosexual demonstrations.

Am I? Tel Aviv is (in)famous for its liberal attitude. Look at the celebration of Israel's Eurovision winners freakshow (giving the world the first Trans Eurovision winner)

And when the Jews captured the temple mount, the leading rabbi of Israel wanted to blow it up - and the military commander told him not to proceed any further or else he would be arrested.

Stopped by the State...

They are wearing those kippah's at the temple mount for a reason.

How much of that is cultural rather than religious though?

 

[BABerean2]

There will be a blessed Israel where Jesus will reign from on the same location that the present Israel is located , it is understanding what the prophecies say that needs to be understood

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

.