State of Grace

[Emmer]

Hello!

I've been a lurker here lately, just checking everything out and I decided to become a member.

I've been a protestant all my life (mainly Presbyterian) but recently I've been seriously thinking about possibly converting to Catholicism; it's something I've felt is weighing on my heart deeply.

I'm familiar with the belief about being (or not being) in a state of grace. However, I just read an article on Beliefnet.com with the actress Patricia Heaton and I thought she brought up a point about it that I couldn't answer myself, so I thought I would bring it up here where you all know much, much more about it than I do. Here is what she said:

"I think that the main difficulty for me, when Catholicism was this idea that was really deeply planted, was that you exist either in a state of grace or out of a state of grace, and God forbid you should get hit by a bus when you're out of a state of grace, because it's all over for you. And, I think that set up a horrible thing in me, that my salvation was not secure. I think that would be the main problem I had with the Catholic Church. I don't even know that that's [still] taught, but that was so ingrained in me. And that unless you went to confession, that you would still be out of a state of grace. You had to go to confession, get back in a state of grace."

How exactly does this work? Say that I've sinned since the last time I've gone to confession and I suddenly die...does that put me out of a state of grace and therefore give me no chance of going to heaven? Again, I'm sorry I'm ignorant on this subject; it's probably a fairly easy answer. I would just like to know your thoughts on it.

 

[rocklife]

our salvation is in Jesus most importantly. If we continue in Him, His Spirit prayerfully every day, a freak accident won't be any cause for alarm of losing salvation.

I believe the bible, especially New Testament will do you a lot of good. Prayerfully, the bible will really help give you a clear picture what the christian life is, even better than many church leaders will.

 

[Adstar]

Hello!

I've been a lurker here lately, just checking everything out and I decided to become a member.

I've been a protestant all my life (mainly Presbyterian) but recently I've been seriously thinking about possibly converting to Catholicism; it's something I've felt is weighing on my heart deeply.

I'm familiar with the belief about being (or not being) in a state of grace. However, I just read an article on Beliefnet.com with the actress Patricia Heaton and I thought she brought up a point about it that I couldn't answer myself, so I thought I would bring it up here where you all know much, much more about it than I do. Here is what she said:

"I think that the main difficulty for me, when Catholicism was this idea that was really deeply planted, was that you exist either in a state of grace or out of a state of grace, and God forbid you should get hit by a bus when you're out of a state of grace, because it's all over for you. And, I think that set up a horrible thing in me, that my salvation was not secure. I think that would be the main problem I had with the Catholic Church. I don't even know that that's [still] taught, but that was so ingrained in me. And that unless you went to confession, that you would still be out of a state of grace. You had to go to confession, get back in a state of grace."

How exactly does this work? Say that I've sinned since the last time I've gone to confession and I suddenly die...does that put me out of a state of grace and therefore give me no chance of going to heaven? Again, I'm sorry I'm ignorant on this subject; it's probably a fairly easy answer. I would just like to know your thoughts on it.

Have you read the Bible? Have you read the Words of Jesus and the letters of the apostles?

You really need to read and understand before you make such decisions. Take your salvation very seriously. If you Read the Words of Jesus and you find something that does not align itself to it then reject it.

We are saved by our acceptance of the grace of God through the Messiah Jesus. We have grace because we believe Jesus. Anything that teaches different is to be rejected.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Dondi]

What God is most concerned is, do you have a relationship with Him? If you do, what kind of relationship do you have?

It's one thing to be fearful of your sins and be preoccupied with whether or not you will go to heaven. But if you are only thinking in those terms you missed the whole point.

God isn't out to sell fire insurance.

What sin does is effect the relationship with God and with others in our lives. It even affects us. Sin keeps us from loving others.

If sin is breaking a commandment, consider what Jesus said about the Greatest Commandment:

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." - Matt. 22:36-40

This sums up the whole Law. If we don't have a love for God and others, then it is pointless to worry about our sins. For the basis of the Law is to show us how far we come in fulfilling it.

Jesus also said:

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." - John 14:21

God is teaching us how to love like Jesus loved. His plan is to conform us into the image of His Son. If we aren't willing to get with the program, then anything we do is vain anyway.

God's grace through the sacrificial Blood of Jesus Christ is there because of our lack. It is almost secondary to what God is trying to do with us and in us. Grace is available for us, but it is there so that we can obey Him in Love for Him, not because we have the fear of hell abiding in us (hell is really about separation from God and those who love Him). He doesn't want us to love Him out of fear. But rather because we want to obey Him and please Him in our lives.

Salvation is therefore a means to an end. To wit, to develop a relationship with God and learn to love others as ourselves. that's what God really wants.

I would suggest you begin a relationship with God through obedience and let the grace of God abound where your sin abounds. God loves you and will work with you. His Spirit will give you the Power to overcome the things in your life that will keep you from loving others properly.

 

[Emmer]

Thanks for your replies.

I have read the Bible, I understand the idea of gaining salvation through accepting Christ as one's savior and I subscribe to that belief. However, I was just asking about this particular term here of which I'm not entirely familiar with being that I am a Protestant, not a Catholic.

I guess in so many words here you all are telling me that even if one were to die suddenly after committing a sin and having not repented from it, God would look at the heart and obedience of that person, not just what that person had done in the last moments of his/her life.

 

[Dondi]

God is our Father. He is a far better parent than any of us could be:

"If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" - Luke 11:11-13


Do you really think that after the promise of salvation that He would just let you fall into hell for a mistake that you made just prior your death? Is He not more merciful than that? Is not the Blood of Christ sufficent to cover all sins?

 

[Emmer]

God is our Father. He is a far better parent than any of us could be:

"If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" - Luke 11:11-13


Do you really think that after the promise of salvation that He would just let you fall into hell for a mistake that you made just prior your death? Is He not more merciful than that? Is not the Blood of Christ sufficent to cover all sins?

Dondi, I personally believe God would still save us, but I was trying to get clarification on the Catholic view of this. It would seem unjust for a loving God who has a faithful servant die suddenly after committing a sin to send him/her hell. However, I know that in the Catholic view, if a mortal or deadly sin has been committed, it is best to confess as soon as possible to receive forgiveness. It makes me wonder that if the Catholic belief of being under mortal sin without confession or repentance is a possible danger to one's salvation, what do they believe the outcome would be in a sudden death situation?

 

[Key]

Hello!

I've been a lurker here lately, just checking everything out and I decided to become a member.

I've been a protestant all my life (mainly Presbyterian) but recently I've been seriously thinking about possibly converting to Catholicism; it's something I've felt is weighing on my heart deeply.

I'm familiar with the belief about being (or not being) in a state of grace. However, I just read an article on Beliefnet.com with the actress Patricia Heaton and I thought she brought up a point about it that I couldn't answer myself, so I thought I would bring it up here where you all know much, much more about it than I do. Here is what she said:

"I think that the main difficulty for me, when Catholicism was this idea that was really deeply planted, was that you exist either in a state of grace or out of a state of grace, and God forbid you should get hit by a bus when you're out of a state of grace, because it's all over for you. And, I think that set up a horrible thing in me, that my salvation was not secure. I think that would be the main problem I had with the Catholic Church. I don't even know that that's [still] taught, but that was so ingrained in me. And that unless you went to confession, that you would still be out of a state of grace. You had to go to confession, get back in a state of grace."

How exactly does this work? Say that I've sinned since the last time I've gone to confession and I suddenly die...does that put me out of a state of grace and therefore give me no chance of going to heaven? Again, I'm sorry I'm ignorant on this subject; it's probably a fairly easy answer. I would just like to know your thoughts on it.

Well I really believe that a Catholic should answer this question, as I am not one, I do not know for sure.

But I do know there is some deal with purgatory, but I am really not able to answer this question for you.

I hope one comes on to answer this question.

God Bless

Key

 

[Emmer]

Yes, Key, I think it would be best if a Catholic (or someone with a extensive knowledge in Catholic beliefs) answered this question since it is pertaining to a term most Protestants don't deal with usually. Thank you for your comment, though.

 

[glo1]

Dondi, I personally believe God would still save us, but I was trying to get clarification on the Catholic view of this. It would seem unjust for a loving God who has a faithful servant die suddenly after committing a sin to send him/her hell. However, I know that in the Catholic view, if a mortal or deadly sin has been committed, it is best to confess as soon as possible to receive forgiveness. It makes me wonder that if the Catholic belief of being under mortal sin without confession or repentance is a possible danger to one's salvation, what do they believe the outcome would be in a sudden death situation?

Why don't you try the Catholic forum in the denomination section? (One Bread One Body)

As a non-Catholic myself (which doesn't help you in your quest, I know) I would say that you can repent your sin anywhere without needing a priest - it is just between you and God.
God knows your heart ...

glo

 

[Emmer]

Why don't you try the Catholic forum in the denomination section? (One Bread One Body)

As a non-Catholic myself (which doesn't help you in your quest, I know) I would say that you can repent your sin anywhere without needing a priest - it is just between you and God.
God knows your heart ...

glo

I thought about putting it there but I didn't know if it was available for questions or just comments and conversation. I thought this was where all questions should go pertaining to all Christian faiths- Catholic, Protestant, etc. I don't know if I can move it?...

 

[malckiah]

Hello friend, i want to help you with all my heart! i am going to answer your question by helping you to understand Grace and confession. 1. Catholics believe in good works to get into Heaven... well, think of it like this.... lets take Bill Gates for instance, he is probably the richest man alive, yet in all his earnings he couldnt even purchase one continent! How much less could anyone buy their way into Heaven? Heaven is so great that no amount of "good deeds" could ever even come close to getting you in.
The Bible teaches that we are saved by Grace, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
If someone could do enough good deeds to get into Heaven...then basically that is saying that God would owe them. Search in your heart and you know God doesnt owe anyone anything. It is only by His loving undeserved grace that we can get into Heaven...by His sacrifice for our sins on the cross He paid for your sins in full! He said "It is Finished" and it is! If you truly accept Jesus into your life with all your heart... then you are reborn and God's Grace is with you from then on! It never leaves you! When you are reborn God then from then on see's you through Jesus and you are forgiven!
There are alot of things in the Catholic faith that are not biblical. my advice is to learn The Bible and follow it. Do not be swayed by any "religion" that goes outside what God has said in His Word. God Bless You! amen.

 

[foxsta]

Yeah, I think this should be moved to OBOB before it gets too cluttered with anti-catholicism posts like in GT

 

[Zeena]

Thanks for your replies.

I have read the Bible, I understand the idea of gaining salvation through accepting Christ as one's savior and I subscribe to that belief. However, I was just asking about this particular term here of which I'm not entirely familiar with being that I am a Protestant, not a Catholic.

I guess in so many words here you all are telling me that even if one were to die suddenly after committing a sin and having not repented from it, God would look at the heart and obedience of that person, not just what that person had done in the last moments of his/her life.

I notice you are sporting a Christian symbol now!

Gratz!

&

Praise God!

First off, since accepting what Jesus did for you in dying on that cross, what happened was that He took our sinful nature into Himself!

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

He 'became sin for us' in that He took on Himself our sinful human natures! And not just ours, but the sin of the whole world, and nailed that sinful nature to the cross!

Since accepting His death as the just proitiation for your sin you also died with Him!

Colossians 3:3
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Colossians 2:20
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

2 Timothy 2:11
It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

So that you can Live in Newness of Life by His Holy Spirit! For He has since given you a NEW heart, and a NEW Spirit, even God Himself in the person of Christ Jesus!

He doesn't look at our old, unregenerate heart, for it has passed away!
And He goes on to say 'Behold, I make ALL THINGS NEW'
For He has given us a NEW one!!!

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

When God looks at you now He see's Jesus!

Gratz once again!
And welcome to the family og God my sister!