Starlight Problem

[Job 33:6]

If earth didn't exist how would time be determined? UNKNOWN

The way we measure time on earth (years/light years) is dependent on on the planet ... is the universe in regard to time dependent on the earth? No. It is relative to us because that is where we are ... but outside of that ?????

relative
considered in relation or in proportion to something else.

That "something else" that is being used is planet earth ... and why should we apply that to the universe? That don't even make sense ... unless one is to believe planet earth was the first thing in the universe.

Differing ideas about it from physicists .... that being the case ... time in regard to the universe is indeed UNKNOWN and even questioned by them if time actually exists ... or is it just a construct of our minds,

https://www.sci.news/physics/timelessness-10738.html

Time does not really exist without our mind and way of thinking to differentiate between past , present and the future.

That is why Einstein and others says time is an illusion.

It's really is quite perplexing.

Actually, a light year is based on the time it takes for earth to orbit the sun in today's time, 365 days, and based on a constant speed of light. Even if planet earth disappeared in thin air, light would still travel at it's constant and would travel a set distance per time.

Imagine light is like a comet, travelling at a set rate of distance over time, X distance / 365 x 24 hours. Even if earth disappeared, that comet would still travel X distance per hour.

Just because a comet travels outside of Earth's orbit, say in the kaiper belt, that doesn't somehow mean that the comet has an unpredictable trajectory.

Just because Saturn is beyond Earth's atmosphere, that doesn't somehow mean that Saturn doesn't have a predictable timed rate in which it spins or orbits the sun. Earth could disappear today and Saturn would still spin and orbit the sun at a set rate.

The moon also is beyond Earth's atmosphere. But just because the moon is beyond Earth and is outside and apart from earth, that doesn't mean that we somehow can't predict the timing of things like eclipses or full moons.

You can't just say "time is an illusion beyond Earth's atmosphere, therefore Saturn may actually orbit the sun 1000 times per second" because time is all in our imaginations. That's just not a rational argument because independent of time, there are still physical processes that occur at set rates beyond Earth's atmosphere. Hence why we can land space ships on the moon and on Mars, because we still have an understanding of the rate at which events occur beyond earth.

And those rates don't just disappear once you leave Earth's atmosphere.

 

[eleos1954]

Actually, a light year is based on the time it takes for earth to orbit the sun in today's time, 365 days, and based on a constant speed of light. Even if planet earth disappeared in thin air, light would still travel at it's constant and would travel a set distance per time.

Imagine light is like a comet, travelling at a set rate of distance over time, X distance / 365 x 24 hours. Even if earth disappeared, that comet would still travel X distance per hour.

Just because a comet travels outside of Earth's orbit, say in the kaiper belt, that doesn't somehow mean that the comet has an unpredictable trajectory.

Just because Saturn is beyond Earth's atmosphere, that doesn't somehow mean that Saturn doesn't have a predictable timed rate in which it spins or orbits the sun. Earth could disappear today and Saturn would still spin and orbit the sun at a set rate.

The moon also is beyond Earth's atmosphere. But just because the moon is beyond Earth and is outside and apart from earth, that doesn't mean that we somehow can't predict the timing of things like eclipses or full moons.

You can't just say "time is an illusion beyond Earth's atmosphere, therefore Saturn may actually orbit the sun 1000 times per second" because time is all in our imaginations. That's just not a rational argument because independent of time, there are still physical processes that occur at set rates beyond Earth's atmosphere. Hence why we can land space ships on the moon and on Mars, because we still have an understanding of the rate at which events occur beyond earth.

And those rates don't just disappear once you leave Earth's atmosphere.

You are still using earth as a time reference.

A year is the time it takes for the earth to revolve around the sun once. A calendar year is 365 days. A solar or tropical year is 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, and 46 seconds. This year is used for most astronomical calculations.

Time works by measuring periods between the past, present and future. Does the universe have a mind to establish and understand this? No.

Does the past, present and future exist without planet earth?

Think about this a little bit (remove planet earth) .... if earth did not exist how would time be calculated in the universe? could it even be calculated... does it even exist? That's what science is questioning.

Remove planet earth and give me your calculations.

 

[Job 33:6]

You are still using earth as a time reference.

A year is the time it takes for the earth to revolve around the sun once. A calendar year is 365 days. A solar or tropical year is 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, and 46 seconds. This year is used for most astronomical calculations.

Time works by measuring periods between the past, present and future. Does the universe have a mind to establish and understand this? No.

Does the past, present and future exist without planet earth?

Think about this a little bit (remove planet earth) .... if earth did not exist how would time be calculated in the universe? could it even be calculated... does it even exist? That's what science is questioning.

Remove planet earth and give me your calculations.

There's nothing wrong with using an earth year
as a time reference. Other planets have their own years, or quantities of time in which they orbit the sun. But we still measure those with the same units of time as we measure anything else. It's called "conversion" when we change units while still conducting measurements.

And Yes, past, present and future does exist without earth. That's why we can land a drone on Mars and it still matches our predicted times, despite having left earth. Time doesn't stand still for objects that move independently of earth.

If mankind landed on the moon, there would still be seconds, minutes, hours, etc. You don't need earth for such measurements. Events still unfold at set rates beyond Earth's atmosphere and completely independent of earth. That's why astronauts landed on the moon, and later came back to earth. They didn't freeze in time the moment they left Earth's atmosphere because things still function with past, present and future events, regardless of if they're on earth or not.

 

[eleos1954]

There's nothing wrong with using an earth year
as a time reference. Other planets have their own years, or quantities of time in which they orbit the sun. But we still measure those with the same units of time as we measure anything else. It's called "conversion" when we change units while still conducting measurements.

And Yes, past, present and future does exist without earth. That's why we can land a drone on Mars and it still matches our predicted times, despite having left earth. Time doesn't stand still for objects that move independently of earth.

If mankind landed on the moon, there would still be seconds, minutes, hours, etc. You don't need earth for such measurements. Events still unfold at set rates beyond Earth's atmosphere and completely independent of earth. That's why astronauts landed on the moon, and later came back to earth. They didn't freeze in time the moment they left Earth's atmosphere because things still function with past, present and future events, regardless of if they're on earth or not.

why should the age of the universe be dependent on the orbit of the earth?

Way back when .... everything was "evolving" .... how was time (if it exists) calculated ... if planet earth didn't exist .... then there is no way of calculating years .... if planet earth didn't exist then there was no mind to relate to past,present,future.

Without planet earth .... as far as we humans are concerned in regard to time .... it (earth) is our frame of reference .... without planet earth and the minds of humans there is no frame of reference.

ok ... so there are no humans ... so there is not a mind to observe past, present or future time does not exist.

Time (using earth) is the way we humans measure time .... without humans does time exist? No .... because there isn't a mind to perceive it .... that is why Einstein and others say it is an illusion.

I understand how we humans measure time ... you don't need to keep referencing it.

The issue is applying that system of measurement to the universe.

What I'm asking you to do .... think outside of the earth time box. If earth doesn't exist .... what time is it?, how is it measured/calculated? Totally UNKNOWN

Applying earth time way of measurement to the universe is a HUGE assumption.

There is not a universal time which can be applied ... there is only earth time, as far as man is concerned and must be applied to earth only.

The universe is not dependent on the earth (obviously) and how we measure time.

Seems like it is beyond your comprehension.

 

[Job 33:6]

why should the age of the universe be dependent on the orbit of the earth?

Way back when .... everything was "evolving" .... how was time (if it exists) calculated ... if planet earth didn't exist .... then there is no way of calculating years .... if planet earth didn't exist then there was no mind to relate to past,present,future.

Without planet earth .... as far as we humans are concerned in regard to time .... it (earth) is our frame of reference .... without planet earth and the minds of humans there is no frame of reference.

ok ... so there are no humans ... so there is not a mind to observe past, present or future time does not exist.

Time (using earth) is the way we humans measure time .... without humans does time exist? No .... because there isn't a mind to perceive it .... that is why Einstein and others say it is an illusion.

I understand how we humans measure time ... you don't need to keep referencing it.

The issue is applying that system of measurement to the universe.

What I'm asking you to do .... think outside of the earth time box. If earth doesn't exist .... what time is it?, how is it measured/calculated? Totally UNKNOWN

Applying earth time way of measurement to the universe is a HUGE assumption.

There is not a universal time which can be applied ... there is only earth time, as far as man is concerned and must be applied to earth only.

The universe is not dependent on the earth (obviously) and how we measure time.

Seems like it is beyond your comprehension.

The age of the universe is not dependent on the orbit of the Earth. I'm not sure why you think that.

Your argument is like saying that if there were no earth then the sun wouldn't be hot because there would be no calculation to measure temperature because people wouldn't be around.

This is just absurd.

You said "If earth doesn't exist .... what time is it?, how is it measured/calculated? Totally UNKNOWN"

When in space, you measure time the same way you do here on earth. When people travel to the moon, they still have the ability to calculate time, and they do, that's how they keep their work schedules. Same with robots on Mars.

Do you think that astronauts on the moon somehow lose the ability to calculate time just because they aren't on earth anymore? Of course not. And they could fly to a distant galaxy and still have a timed daily routine there as well. Calculations of time do not depend on earth at all.

"If earth doesn't exist .... what time is it?" time is not an "o-clock" value. Time is a calculated value of kinematics.

That's why other planets have days. A day on Saturn is 10 hours. This has nothing to do with earth. It's a measure of time that exists based on motion. And it doesn't matter if earth is a factor or not, you can still have a 10-hour Saturn day, with or without earth existing. And you could theoretically bring a watch with you to Saturn and could wake up on a Saturn morning, go to bed on a Saturn night, and you could say that morning is at hour 3 or 3-oclock, and evening is at hour 6 or 6-oclock. And you could easily have a timed schedule even without earth. You wouldn't need earth to determine what time it was. In this case, you could say what time it was based on the sun and Saturn's rotation.

On earth, We determine what time it is based on Earth's rotation. But seconds and minutes and hours, these concepts have no dependence on the existence of Earth.

 

[eleos1954]

The age of the universe is not dependent on the orbit of the Earth. I'm not sure why you think that.

Your argument is like saying that if there were no earth then the sun wouldn't be hot because there would be no calculation to measure temperature because people wouldn't be around.

This is just absurd.

You said "If earth doesn't exist .... what time is it?, how is it measured/calculated? Totally UNKNOWN"

When in space, you measure time the same way you do here on earth. When people travel to the moon, they still have the ability to calculate time, and they do, that's how they keep their work schedules. Same with robots on Mars.

Do you think that astronauts on the moon somehow lose the ability to calculate time just because they aren't on earth anymore? Of course not. And they could fly to a distant galaxy and still have a timed daily routine there as well. Calculations of time do not depend on earth at all.

"If earth doesn't exist .... what time is it?" time is not an "o-clock" value. Time is a calculated value of kinematics.

That's why other planets have days. A day on Saturn is 10 hours. This has nothing to do with earth. It's a measure of time that exists based on motion. And it doesn't matter if earth is a factor or not, you can still have a 10-hour Saturn day, with or without earth existing. And you could theoretically bring a watch with you to Saturn and could wake up on a Saturn morning, go to bed on a Saturn night, and you could say that morning is at hour 3 or 3-oclock, and evening is at hour 6 or 6-oclock. And you could easily have a timed schedule even without earth. You wouldn't need earth to determine what time it was. In this case, you could say what time it was based on the sun and Saturn's rotation.

and all this above is using earth time calculations.

On earth, We determine what time it is based on Earth's rotation. But seconds and minutes and hours, these concepts have no dependence on the existence of Earth.

You keep using planet earth to determine time ... if planet earth did not exist then how would a year, day, month etc. be calculated ... if planet earth does not exist ... there are no days, months, years, minutes seconds etc. There is no way to calculate time without planet earth ... of which you keep doing.

What time is it on Saturn without using earth time calculations. Take earth totally out of the equation .... how is time measured? It's immeasurable.

A year is the time it takes for the earth to revolve around the sun once. A calendar year is 365 days. Do not use this in your calculation ... because planet earth does not exist. So the earth is not revolving around the sun .... because earth don't exist.

How many "years" has Saturn been in existence? Again DO NOT use planet for doing any calculations.

Give me a calculation of time without using the existence of plant earth. It's impossible to do my friend.

 

[BPPLEE]

.

 

[Job 33:6]

You keep using planet earth to determine time ... if planet earth did not exist then how would a year, day, month etc. be calculated ... if planet earth does not exist ... there are no days, months, years, minutes seconds etc. There is no way to calculate time without planet earth ... of which you keep doing.

What time is it on Saturn without using earth time calculations. Take earth totally out of the equation .... how is time measured? It's immeasurable.

A year is the time it takes for the earth to revolve around the sun once. A calendar year is 365 days. Do not use this in your calculation ... because planet earth does not exist. So the earth is not revolving around the sun .... because earth don't exist.

How many "years" has Saturn been in existence? Again DO NOT use planet for doing any calculations.

Give me a calculation of time without using the existence of plant earth. It's impossible to do my friend.

You're making an irrational leap. A day on earth is considered 24 hours, but a day on Saturn is 10 hours. See, an hour does not change with or without Earth's presence. A second remains as it is, whether on earth or on the moon or on Saturn, with or without any of these celestial bodies.

Like I said, people on the moon had clocks and watches to track time. They did so independent of Earth's rotation. The same could be done on Mars.

People who will theoretically travel to Mars in the next 20 years or so, it's not like they won't be able to tell time just because earth is no longer visible to them.

What time is it on Saturn? Time is a relative concept. You could call it "day-time" on Saturn when the sun is up, and "night time" on Saturn when the sun is down. And regardless of daytime or nighttime, you could still count seconds or minutes or hours.

You're not understanding the simple reality that a day, or 24 hours, can just be converted to Saturn's day, 10 hours. A year for Saturn is about 29 earth years. Saturn is also about 4.5 billion earth years old.

A year is not defined by how long it takes earth to revolve around the sun, rather a year is how long any celestial body of our solar system takes to revolve around the sun. That's why a year is different for different planets.

the age of Saturn in Saturn years is therefore roughly 4.5 billion / 29 years old, or roughly 155 million Saturn years old.

See, even without earth, Saturn still has an age and time in which it has been around. And we can convert that 155 million back into earth years if we want to. But regardless, whether it's 4.5 billion earth years old, or 155 million Saturn years old, either way it's far too old for YEC beliefs to account for.

 

[BPPLEE]

You're making an irrational leap. A day on earth is considered 24 hours, but a day on Saturn is 10 hours. See, an hour does not change with or without Earth's presence. A second remains as it is, whether on earth or on the moon or on Saturn, with or without any of these celestial bodies.

Like I said, people on the moon had clocks and watches to track time. They did so independent of Earth's rotation. The same could be done on Mars.

People who will theoretically travel to Mars in the next 20 years or so, it's not like they won't be able to tell time just because earth is no longer visible to them.

What time is it on Saturn? Time is a relative concept. You could call it "day-time" on Saturn when the sun is up, and "night time" on Saturn when the sun is down. And regardless of daytime or nighttime, you could still count seconds or minutes or hours.

Where did the concept of an hour come from? Is it not 1/24 of a day on earth?

 

[Job 33:6]

Where did the concept of an hour come from? Is it not 1/24 of a day on earth?

Well that's just it, time, such as hours, is a human construct that really exists independent of anything. Just like numbers. The number 2 for example isn't an actual thing, it's just a construct we use to describe things.

In reality, Earth's day has actually changed over time. The earth's rotation is slowing down for example. An earth day used to be something like 22 hours long in the Paleozoic. And so if a day truly were 24 hours, it could only be a human construct used to describe other things that exist.

And that's why if earth disappeared from existence, we would still have time. Assuming we still lived ourselves. For example, if we all migrated to Mars and earth disappeared, we would still have seconds and hours. We might start living according to Mars days instead of earth days.

But either way, we wouldn't just become utterly confused and incapable of counting seconds, even if earth didn't exist.

Just like my example above. Saturn has a day that is 10 hours long. If we all lived on Saturn, we wouldn't somehow lose the ability to count seconds and hours just because we decided to leave earth.

I guess we could redefine an hour if we wanted to. Say, we could call a Saturn day = 24 Saturn hours. And so a Saturn hour would be 0.42 earth hours, or roughly 25 earth minutes. If we really wanted to. We could easily convert or redefine things if we wanted to.

But regardless, the point is that we don't need earth to tell time. The only thing we need to tell time is the motion of physical objects in relation to one another. And that's what Einstein actually means when he says that time is an illusion. He's not saying that it can't be calculated beyond earth. He's just saying that it's a human construct used to estimate the rate of motion between two objects.

And I actually did take a couple courses on calculus based physics, which includes studies on Einstein's relativity, time dilation and theory of electromagnetism as well. Along with kinematic equations in which we learned to calculate time based on the motion of multiple objects. And I've also read books on Einstein's theories as well. And ultimately earth just isn't needed for these types of calculations. Earth is not needed to calculate time.

 

[BPPLEE]

Well that's just it, time, such as hours, is a human construct that really exists independent of anything. Just like numbers. The number 2 for example isn't an actual thing, it's just a construct we use to describe things.

In reality, Earth's day has actually changed over time. The earth's rotation is slowing down for example. And so if a day truly were 24 hours, it could only be a human construct used to describe other things that exist.

And that's why if earth disappeared from existence, we would still have time. Assuming we still lived ourselves. For example, if we all migrated to Mars and earth disappeared, we would still have seconds and hours. We might start living according to Mars days instead of earth days.

But either way, we wouldn't just become utterly confused and incapable of counting seconds, even if earth didn't exist.

Just like my example above. Saturn has a day that is 10 hours long. If we all lived on Saturn, we wouldn't somehow lose the ability to count seconds and hours just because we decided to leave earth.

I guess we could redefine an hour if we wanted to. Say, we could call a Saturn hour = 60 Saturn minutes. And so a Saturn minute would be 0.42 earth minutes. If we really wanted to.

But regardless, the point is that we don't need earth to tell time. The only thing we need to tell time is the motion of physical objects in relation to one another. And that's what Einstein actually means when he says that time is an illusion. He's not saying that it can't be calculated beyond earth. He's just saying that it's a human construct used to estimate the rate of motion between two objects.

If the earth is slowing down wouldn't that make the day longer?
The Earth Had Its Shortest Day in Recorded History | Smart News| Smithsonian Magazine:

 

[FaithT]

This conversation is all fine and good but I started the thread, especially directed to YECs. My question to them is this: If the earth is 6,000 to 10,000 years old how can we see starlight that’s many, many light years away?

 

[Job 33:6]

If the earth is slowing down wouldn't that make the day longer?
The Earth Had Its Shortest Day in Recorded History | Smart News| Smithsonian Magazine:

Sure. If we, people, chose to make it longer. That measurement of time.

We wouldn't have to choose that though, we could leave the earth day stuck at 24 hours if we wanted to. And let's say it took 25 hours for earth to rotate. We could just call it 1 day and 1 hour. Rather than stretching days out to make it 25 hours.

 

[BPPLEE]

This conversation is all fine and good but I started the thread, especially directed to YECs. My question to them is this: If the earth is 6,000 to 10,000 years old how can we see starlight that’s many, many light years away?

This is what YECs say. Not saying that I agree
Distant Starlight
Stretching the Heavens: The Nature of Cosmic Reality: – By Chuck Missler – Koinonia House

 

[Job 33:6]

Sure. If we, people, chose to make it longer. That measurement of time.

We wouldn't have to choose that though, we could leave the earth day stuck at 24 hours if we wanted to. And let's say it took 25 hours for earth to rotate. We could just call it 1 day and 1 hour. Rather than stretching days out to make it 25 hours.

And with the above response, even if earth disappeared, we would still have the intellect to define a day however we wanted to. We could make up a new unit of time right now. We could call it a gibbledegoop, and a gibbledegoop = 26 earth hours. So if you've been awake for 26 hours, then you've been awake for 1 gibbledegoop. Congratulations.

And earth isn't needed to define a gibbledegoop. Even if earth never existed at all, and we all lived on Saturn, where a Saturn day is 10 hours long. I could say that a gibbledegoop is roughly 2.6 Saturn days.

Earth just isn't needed to calculate these kinds of concepts of time.

 

[Job 33:6]

And with the above response, even if earth disappeared, we would still have the intellect to define a day however we wanted to. We could make up a new unit of time right now. We could call it a gibbledegoop, and a gibbledegoop = 26 earth hours. So if you've been awake for 26 hours, then you've been awake for 1 gibbledegoop. Congratulations.

And earth isn't needed to define a gibbledegoop. Even if earth never existed at all, and we all lived on Saturn, where a Saturn day is 10 hours long. I could say that a gibbledegoop is roughly 2.6 Saturn days.

Earth just isn't needed to calculate these kinds of concepts of time.

One more post.

I could create a gibbledegoop to be whatever I want it to be. Every time Saturn makes a full rotation, I could call that a gibbledegoop. So if you lived on Saturn and the sun rose and the sun set, and the sun rose again, I could say "hey, that was 1 gibbledegoop". You've been on Saturn for 1 gibbledegoop of time or you were born 1000 gibbledegoops ago in time.

No earth is necessary to create these time constructs or to calculate time. The only thing that is needed is physical motion between two objects.

And that's why the starlight problem wouldn't go away if earth just disappeared. Because physical objects would still be in motion and their ages would still exist. Mars wouldn't just become 0 years old the moment earth disappeared. Mars would still be billions of years old because that's how long it has been in motion. Even before people ever invented the concept of a year. Mars was there. Then we invented the concept of a year, and then with that said "hey, mars has been in motion for X years". And if we stopped talking in hours and began only talking in gibbledegoops, and we all moved to Saturn and the earth disappeared, the starlight problem would still be in an issue. We would just use different units of time to describe the problem.

 

[Job 33:6]

This conversation is all fine and good but I started the thread, especially directed to YECs. My question to them is this: If the earth is 6,000 to 10,000 years old how can we see starlight that’s many, many light years away?

Most YECs suggest that perhaps light travelled faster than the speed of light, then for some reason just slowed down once it reached earth. It's more of an ad hoc argument where there isn't any evidence for this. It's just believed because it's necessary to be believed.

Just like with the tadpole galaxy which has a tail 280,000 light years long. The galaxy itself must have travelled dozens of times faster than the speed of light, or God simply must have created the galaxy to look as if it had travelled a long distance, though it in reality had not [rather God created it instantaneously in it's present form with the appearance as if it had been travelling in the past, though in actuality it was simply created as it is today, just as Adam was created a mature adult as if he had lived a long time though he was created instantaneously as is] But the latter would imply a deceptive God. Imagine a situation where we travel back in time and we meet Adam. And let's say Adam has a scar as if he had run into another object. We might say "Adam, where did you get that scar if you were created 5 minutes ago?" And Adam might say "well God just made me with it, as if I had experienced something, though in reality I was made to look this way, as is, and had not actually run into another object".

It's a very strange line of thought that YECs live with, and it permeates every field of science. Think of things like paleontology where there are fossil tracks in the earth. Here YECs are forced to acknowledge the passage of time, so then they convert to speeding things up rather than the omphalos paradox.

And that's about the sum of it. You won't get much more out of the conversation aside from people arguing that time isn't a real thing and therefore nobody knows anything about anything.

It's the exact same argument used for rates of evolution, rates of the speed of light, rates of plate tectonics motion, rates of stratigraphic deposition, rates of radiometric decay, rates of molecular clocks etc etc etc.

 

[eleos1954]

You're making an irrational leap. A day on earth is considered 24 hours, but a day on Saturn is 10 hours. See, an hour does not change with or without Earth's presence. A second remains as it is, whether on earth or on the moon or on Saturn, with or without any of these celestial bodies.

Like I said, people on the moon had clocks and watches to track time. They did so independent of Earth's rotation. The same could be done on Mars.

People who will theoretically travel to Mars in the next 20 years or so, it's not like they won't be able to tell time just because earth is no longer visible to them.

What time is it on Saturn? Time is a relative concept. You could call it "day-time" on Saturn when the sun is up, and "night time" on Saturn when the sun is down. And regardless of daytime or nighttime, you could still count seconds or minutes or hours.

You're not understanding the simple reality that a day, or 24 hours, can just be converted to Saturn's day, 10 hours. A year for Saturn is about 29 earth years. Saturn is also about 4.5 billion earth years old.

A year is not defined by how long it takes earth to revolve around the sun, rather a year is how long any celestial body of our solar system takes to revolve around the sun. That's why a year is different for different planets.

the age of Saturn in Saturn years is therefore roughly 4.5 billion / 29 years old, or roughly 155 million Saturn years old.

See, even without earth, Saturn still has an age and time in which it has been around. And we can convert that 155 million back into earth years if we want to. But regardless, whether it's 4.5 billion earth years old, or 155 million Saturn years old, either way it's far too old for YEC beliefs to account for.

You're making an irrational leap. A day on earth is considered 24 hours, but a day on Saturn is 10 hours. See, an hour does not change with or without Earth's presence. A second remains as it is, whether on earth or on the moon or on Saturn, with or without any of these celestial bodies.

No I'm not .... you are .... You are basing time as calculated from planet earth, if planet earth does not exist .... then how is time calculated? UNKNOWN Without planet earth there isn't a year, day, hours, seconds etc. Why?

Why you are unable to get this is beyond me. Yes ... a day on EARTH is calculated as 24 hours .... if earth does not exist .... then how is time calculated?

I understand how we calculate time ... so please quit bringing it up ....

What is time based on?

It is based on the Earth's rate of rotation measured relative to the “fixed stars”, as opposed to solar time which reckons the passage of time based on the Sun's position in the sky.

ok so time is based on the EARTH'S rotation .... if EARTH does not exist .... then what is it based on? UNKNOWN

 

[Job 33:6]

No I'm not .... you are .... You are basing time as calculated from planet earth, if planet earth does not exist .... then how is time calculated? UNKNOWN Without planet earth there isn't a year, day, hours, seconds etc. Why?

Why you are unable to get this is beyond me. Yes ... a day on EARTH is calculated as 24 hours .... if earth does not exist .... then how is time calculated?

I understand how we calculate time ... so please quit bringing it up ....

What is time based on?

It is based on the Earth's rate of rotation measured relative to the “fixed stars”, as opposed to solar time which reckons the passage of time based on the Sun's position in the sky.

ok so time is based on the EARTH'S rotation .... if EARTH does not exist .... then what is it based on? UNKNOWN

I've already addressed this. If not on earth, say, if you lived on Saturn, you could calculate times based on the rotation of Saturn. A day on Saturn would be the amount of time on which Saturn makes one full rotation.

And with that said, there would still be a "day" even if earth didn't exist.

Lol what is this?
"As opposed to solar time which reckons the passage of time based on the Sun's position in the sky."

So you admit that time exists independently of earth and can be based on the motion and position of the sun now?

Which is to say that if earth didn't exist, someone on Saturn could use the sun to calculate time?

Why yes, I would agree with this. Which is why I'm saying that time does not depend on the existence of Earth.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There’s an old thread about this so rather than add to it, I wanted to start another, this one especially directed to YECs. If the earth is 6,000 to 10,000 years old how can we see starlight that’s many, many light years away?

In the creation account it says that God created the lights to be signs of the seasons. Many cultures tracked the movement of the stars for this purpose so God would’ve had to create the light already reaching the earth it the stars were intended for this purpose.

“Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:14-19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬