Stanford study: Masks useless for Covid

topher694 · Apr 21, 2021

Halbhh said:
Well, currently only people above age 16 can get the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, only, and fortunately the problem with the other 2 vaccines that are paused was detected (see post 170 just above). If someone is pressuring you, I'm sorry to hear that! I planned myself to just wear a mask (to reduce the exposure amount to a low level, which actually matters very greatly if one is exposed!), and wait and wait. I was just cautious, and felt ok wearing a mask, which I had to do for years in various work.
(as it happened my wife is a 2nd tier essential worker that qualified recently, and signed me up, and i felt the Pfizer vaccine had proven safe now, and went ahead, and it's fine. All the elderly in my church where I know whether they are getting the vaccine have gotten it also).

So, just waiting even longer and wearing a mask in all recommended situations (indoors with non-household members basically, or outdoors when less than 6 feet) is a way to be very cautious.

Thank you for your genuine & considerate response.

One of my kids is 17, so there's that. Plus if all 3 of my kids are allergic, they must have got if from their parents, right? So there is some level of risk for my wife and I as well. I'm not one to criticize the choices of others, if they want to go forward with it more power to them. I personally just wish it would be ok for some of us to take more time, watch, wait and see what happens without it being an issue. I'd like nothing better than for the vaccine to work perfectly without issue, I just can't take that chance right now.

Larniavc · Apr 21, 2021

expos4ever said:
Just checked it myself. Aldebaran's link sends us to the Renegade Tribune:

Renegade is an American white nationalist, conspiracy theorist and anti-Semitic media platform, based in Deltona, Florida. Founded by Kyle Hunt, the project consists of two main outlets; Renegade Broadcasting, an internet radio network founded in October 2012 and Renegade Tribune, founded in 2013. The project broke off from an older media network Oracle Broadcasting. As of August 2018, Renegade Tribune had a global Alexa ranking of 77,269.[3]

Renegade has promoted Holocaust denial, and has portrayed the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler's NSDAP in a positive light,[4] claiming that Germans, not Jews, were the victims of the Second World War.[5][6] In 2014 founder Kyle Hunt promoted "the White Man March", advocating that White people across the world spontaneously protest in public with signs bearing phrases related to the white genocide conspiracy theory.

Crikey. One wonders how that would ever come up in an adaptive search algorithm.

topher694 · Apr 21, 2021

sesquiterpene said:
Just because you are angry at what someone else said, it's no reason to misrepresent what sfs is saying. And it looks like you later agreed that the person you are angry at might have been right - are you sure that that's not why you so angry?

sfs said the exact same thing as that person, and others. I pointed out that what he is doing is pressuring people, like me, and his (and yours) response was basically... "nope, is not" which is misrepresenting & undermining what *I* was saying.

topher694 · Apr 21, 2021

sesquiterpene said:
Just because you are angry at what someone else said, it's no reason to misrepresent what sfs is saying. And it looks like you later agreed that the person you are angry at might have been right - are you sure that that's not why you so angry?

I did not "later agree that the person may have been right" I demonstrated that these tactics and this rhetoric DOES PRESSURE PEOPLE WITH ALLERGIES.

expos4ever · Apr 21, 2021

renniks said:
Just confirms what I've said all along.

Well, there are problems with this article. From another poster:

It's not a study. It wasn't done by Stanford University. It's not peer reviewed.

Three falsehoods in 12 words. Aiming for some kind of record?

expos4ever · Apr 21, 2021

topher694 said:
So you are calling me a liar? That's your response to your own poor behavior. "I'm not wrong, he's a liar". Wow, you are the poster child for compassion for others aren't you? Did you even read post 171?

I stand by my statement - where, and please be specific, did I ever post anything that a reasonable person would construe to be pressure on people with vaccine allergies to take the shot?

If you cannot provide such evidence - and you certainly will not be able to - then how is it that you did not fabricate your accusation out of thin, wispy air?

sesquiterpene · Apr 21, 2021

topher694 said:
Thank you for your genuine & considerate response.

One of my kids is 17, so there's that. Plus if all 3 of my kids are allergic, they must have got if from their parents, right? So there is some level of risk for my wife and I as well. I'm not one to criticize the choices of others, if they want to go forward with it more power to them. I personally just wish it would be ok for some of us to take more time, watch, wait and see what happens without it being an issue. I'd like nothing better than for the vaccine to work perfectly without issue, I just can't take that chance right now.

The CDC actually is recommending that people with allergies get the vaccines - only people with known allergies specifically to vaccine ingredients, or people who have allergic reactions to their first dose, are recommended not to get the vaccine. Here's their recommendation for the Pfizer shot:

Who Should NOT Get Vaccinated

If you have had a severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) or an immediate allergic reaction, even if it was not severe:

to any ingredient in an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine (such as polyethylene glycol), you should not get an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine.*

or after getting the first dose of the vaccine, you should not get a second dose of either of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines.

An allergic reaction is considered severe when a person needs to be treated with epinephrine or EpiPen© or if they must go to the hospital. Learn about common side effects of COVID-19 vaccines and when to call a doctor.

An immediate allergic reaction means a reaction within 4 hours of getting vaccinated, including symptoms such as hives, swelling, or wheezing (respiratory distress).

Much ado about nothing.

topher694 · Apr 21, 2021

expos4ever said:
I stand by my statement - where, and please be specific, did I ever post anything that a reasonable person would construe to be pressure on people with vaccine allergies to take the shot?

If you cannot provide such evidence - and you certainly will not be able to - then how is it that you did not fabricate your accusation out of thin, wispy air?

I gave you first hand testimony. That IS evidence.

topher694 · Apr 21, 2021

sesquiterpene said:
The CDC actually is recommending that people with allergies get the vaccines - only people with known allergies specifically to vaccine ingredients, or people who have allergic reactions to their first dose, are recommended not to get the vaccine. Here's their recommendation for the Pfizer shot:Much ado about nothing.

oh, so I should ignore my doctor and listen to you now, since you posted a link on the internet... cool, I'm getting in line now!

sesquiterpene · Apr 21, 2021

topher694 said:
oh, so I should ignore my doctor and listen to you now, since you posted a link on the internet... cool, I'm getting in line now!

The link I gave was to the CDC recommendations. Yes, you should listen to CDC advice.

topher694 · Apr 21, 2021

sesquiterpene said:
The link I gave was to the CDC recommendations. Yes, you should listen to CDC advice.

Over my doctor?

expos4ever · Apr 21, 2021

One theme we see in the resistors is basically this: Why is it so bad if I want to wait and see what happens?

This sounds reasonable but a case can be made that the situation we are in does not afford us such luxury - if I am in airplane plummeting earthward, this is not the setting in which I should question the reliability of the parachute offered to me.

Hammster · Apr 21, 2021

As a reminder:

Please do not give professional, legal, financial, medical, or other counseling. Do not direct, imply, or suggest that others should disregard doctors' orders regarding medical diagnosis and/or treatment.

sesquiterpene · Apr 21, 2021

delete

Astroqualia · Apr 21, 2021

High Fidelity said:
Next time you have surgery, why don't you ask the surgeon and surgical staff to leave their masks off.

Facial hair, boogers, and actual dripping spit down via gravity into an open wound is entirely different than particulates that even when aerosolized, can go right between the fibers of the mask.

dqhall · Apr 21, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Did you hear about the peer-reviewed study done by Stanford University that demonstrates beyond a reasonable doubt that face masks have absolutely zero chance of preventing the spread of Covid-19? No? It was posted on the the National Center for Biotechnological Information government website. The NCBI is a branch of the National Institute for Health, so one would think such a study would be widely reported by mainstream media and embraced by the “science-loving” folks in Big Tech.

The author of the study is biased. China totally eliminated a viral epidemic in a few weeks using face masks, PPP in the hospitals, distancing and quarantine. Ignorant Americans who believe in none of these things and refuse free vaccinations are part of the problem and economic downturn.

whatbogsends · Apr 21, 2021

expos4ever said:
One theme we see in the resistors is basically this: Why is it so bad if I want to wait and see what happens?

This sounds reasonable but a case can be made that the situation we are in does not afford us such luxury - if I am in airplane plummeting earthward, this is not the setting in which I should question the reliability of the parachute offered to me.

I'm not in an airplane plummeting earthward.

I'm living cautiously, applying the social distancing and masking recommendations which help limit spread and thereby keep me safe.

Rushing to take a vaccine where we don't know the long term effects isn't the equivalent of a parachute preventing me from plummeting to my death. I continue to be healthy and safe, and, for the good of my family, i'm doing what i can to ensure that i will remain healthy - not just in the short term with regard to Covid, but for the long term.

Were i in a position in which my job put me in direct contact with even a moderate number of people, my calculus would change.

People advocating that "everyone NEEDS to take the vaccine" are focusing on short term impacts of the pandemic, and completely ignoring any potential long term side effects that this new type of vaccine might produce. It's not as if undiscovered, undisclosed or misrepresented side effects are something new with regard to products put forth by pharmaceutical companies.

whatbogsends · Apr 21, 2021

Of course, the actual topic of this thread is masks, not vaccines.

The "study" cited in the OP is nonsense, and the risk of mask wearing is virtually non-existent. While i think most outdoor mask mandates aren't particularly sensible because outdoor transmission is extremely limited when moderate social distancing is being practiced, overall, masks are a simple tool that can help limit the spread and thereby reduce the severity of the pandemic.

As another poster pointed, out, masks also reduce the viral load that you get when you are exposed, so while it may not prevent you from getting Covid, it can help reduce the severity of infection due to a lower initial viral load.

dqhall · Apr 21, 2021

topher694 said:
My children are allergic to the traditional flu shots and tamiflu. Anaphylactic allergic. I am SO utterly sick of this type of nonsense. I thought when the vaccine got here people would get it and calm down. Now all I see is severely ramped up pressure for everyone to get in line and do their duty otherwise they "don't care for their neighbor" or "may well kill someone". I am NOT going to play games with my kids lives and I am so sick of others pressuring me to do so. Where is the compassion for them? I shouldn't have to explain their medical history every time I talk to someone. This compassion card is nothing but complete utter virtue signaling hogwash. You want to play games with your family's lives go for it, but leave mine and others alone.

The second Moderna vaccination made me half sick. Three days later I was feeling no pain. Not bad compared to being in an ICU, on a ventilator, then surviving after running up $350,000 in hospital bills with no intention of paying.

Larniavc · Apr 21, 2021

topher694 said:
Over my doctor?

Some doctors happily advise people to take alternative pseudoscience treatment options.

Doctors can be just as wedded to their pet beliefs in spite of what research and evidence suggests.

I got rid of one of my old GPS when he advised acupuncture. Magic has no place in medicine.

Stanford study: Masks useless for Covid

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