Staff/Members discussion [report-free]

[RobNJ]

So, you coming back on staff?

Ummm.. Twice was enough.. Especially with the agita factor rising exponentially with the job

Signed
Former Admin

 

[Dorothea]

Well, I've reported that disgraceful thread and its disgraceful title for which imo, should have been shut down before it even started. We'll see if anything comes of it. All I know is that kind of complete lack of charity and respect would have been gone so fast on other religion forums I have been part of.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I remember when CF was offline for a LOOONG time, and finally only the staff could get in. I commented in the staff forum "What if the rapture was actually true & all the staff had been 'left behind'"

LOL!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Well, I've reported that disgraceful thread and its disgraceful title for which imo, should have been shut down before it even started. We'll see if anything comes of it. All I know is that kind of complete lack of charity and respect would have been gone so fast on other religion forums I have been part of.

Personally, I think we've reached an impasse there.

The last reply to me was to dodge the obvious and insult me. I'm trying really hard to wrap my mind around if the OP really believes what he is saying. But the switch to insults is a good indication he seems to be just running out of tracks. He seems to be at the same point with others as well.

I don't ever (or very rarely) report either. Perhaps I should more, but I usually reserve it for outright attacks, pornographic content, and such as that.

 

[topcare]

Well, I've reported that disgraceful thread and its disgraceful title for which imo, should have been shut down before it even started. We'll see if anything comes of it. All I know is that kind of complete lack of charity and respect would have been gone so fast on other religion forums I have been part of.

I did too earlier, hopefully it will help.

 

[pdudgeon]

Good question, and NamelessHero is correct, mods do not necessarily go through forums looking for violations.
However, TallGuy is also correct, we do scroll through some threads.

Let me go back in history a bit.

For the last, oh like 8 years, our moderating system was dependent upon reports. You report we look into it.

In 2014 we decided to start turning this ship around and gradually involve our Supervisors (select Supervisors) in proactive moderation.
We call them Category Supervisors.
TallGuy has GT he is responsible for.

It takes time to turn a ship around.

We have some more tools already in place (and we are going through some training) where the Cat Supers would proactively keep eyes and ears on every forum.

I expect by the middle of 2015 we would become a fully proactive moderating team.

Once our Supervisors and their help (we are working on a team of eyes and ears) see a problem, they would not necessarily just report.
They would mentor right in threads and take full control of such threads and do what needs to be done.

The short answer is ... we are working on it.

Thanks,
Ed

Thank you for this, and please pass my thanks along as well to the entire staff.

It came to me tonight that when our brothers and sisters in Christ criticize us for the ways that we show our devotion to God and to His Saints, that more than anything else it shows a lack of understanding on their part about how both love and devotion can move in a human heart.
And sometimes when heart issues are at stake, people will strike out from a lack of knowledge, or fear, or from misplaced righteousness as though to avenge a percieved wrong against another.

Christ, while He was on earth, was the object of such attacks and He warned us plainly that what He had been subject to we would also suffer in like ways, because we believed in Him.

The only long term answer to this is education of course, which is why i am greatful to see that our staff here will be pro-actively educating right on the sceen.
Education like medicine has to be accepted to do any good, but having it "topically applied" on the spot of discomfort will be a great help in the long run.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Gurney's continued advice that goes unheeded: STAY AWAY FROM GT, ALL ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS. IT'S MORE TROUBLE THAN IT'S WORTH!

Occasionally, and I emphasize OCCASIONALLY, gurney has somesmall kernels of wisdom. Take this advice: stay out!

 

[Edial]

 

[James Is Back]

You know GT isn't for everyone. You have to have an open mind and a strong faith to venture in there. I joke to others that GT should have a warning like this:

"Warning You Are Entering GT Proceed With Caution"

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

GT could stand for "Great Torment" to some people, others a fun time. For me it is definitely "great torment," so I'd caution people. Sometimes we Orthodox need to not focus on converting everybody, but edifying our own souls before spiritual combat and apologetics. Right now I need to nurse my own soul and grow a bit in Christ's Church before I engage hardcore folks like you meet in there.

For me, I've been pummeled and beat up and reported and knocked around in OBOB, and I have some wonderful Catholic friends in there. But there are lots of super liberal folks in there and modernists and they hate ole Gurney. So I pick and choose which threads I want to post on in there. I look at it like being a stranger in a strange land (nod to Heinlein). GT is a stranger in a strange parallel universe!

 

[Anhelyna]

OBOB should be my home forum , but it's not - my home is TAW and even I pick and choose very very carefully the threads to which I will post on OBOB - and they are few in number. I've been reported in OBOB and I've received some wonderful insults at times too.

As for GT/GH - well I take my hat off to our folk who will post there. The usual posters/inhabitants in GT know exactly how to word their posts to be as unpleasant as possible to us and yet be un-reportable. That takes skill and they have it in spades

 

[Dorothea]

Personally, I think we've reached an impasse there.

The last reply to me was to dodge the obvious and insult me. I'm trying really hard to wrap my mind around if the OP really believes what he is saying. But the switch to insults is a good indication he seems to be just running out of tracks. He seems to be at the same point with others as well.

I don't ever (or very rarely) report either. Perhaps I should more, but I usually reserve it for outright attacks, pornographic content, and such as that.

There's pornographic content in CF? :o

It's just my opinion, but if I were a Mod, I wouldn't allow such threads to exist in the forum. It's disrespectful and insulting. Allowing these types of mudslinging posts between Christians sends a terrible message to lurkers, if you ask me.

I did too earlier, hopefully it will help.

That's good. Well, nothing will happen today, but maybe later on. I don't post in GT anymore, but hopefully those who do will see it closed or gone in the next few days.

 

[Thekla]

OBOB should be my home forum , but it's not - my home is TAW and even I pick and choose very very carefully the threads to which I will post on OBOB - and they are few in number. I've been reported in OBOB and I've received some wonderful insults at times too.

As for GT/GH - well I take my hat off to our folk who will post there. The usual posters/inhabitants in GT know exactly how to word their posts to be as unpleasant as possible to us and yet be un-reportable. That takes skill and they have it in spades

 

[Thekla]

nope. a flame, is a flame, is a flame. (or unless it's followed by 'because, etc, etc, etc.')

(but rules are subject to change, so what might be a flame one day might not be a flame the next day.)

that's my impression ...

 

[Thekla]

Good question, and NamelessHero is correct, mods do not necessarily go through forums looking for violations.
However, TallGuy is also correct, we do scroll through some threads.

Let me go back in history a bit.

For the last, oh like 8 years, our moderating system was dependent upon reports. You report we look into it.

In 2014 we decided to start turning this ship around and gradually involve our Supervisors (select Supervisors) in proactive moderation.
We call them Category Supervisors.
TallGuy has GT he is responsible for.

It takes time to turn a ship around.

We have some more tools already in place (and we are going through some training) where the Cat Supers would proactively keep eyes and ears on every forum.

I expect by the middle of 2015 we would become a fully proactive moderating team.

Once our Supervisors and their help (we are working on a team of eyes and ears) see a problem, they would not necessarily just report.
They would mentor right in threads and take full control of such threads and do what needs to be done.

The short answer is ... we are working on it.

Thanks,
Ed

Thanks !

Actually, I think stamping out the flames before a raging fire develops is helpful.

 

[~Anastasia~]

There's pornographic content in CF? :o

Not as a rule, no. But I have seen people create accounts, go in with the guise of asking for help, and in their descriptions of the problem, write downright pornographic content. I reported it immediately, and the thread and poster usually disappear right away. I'm probably not the only person to report, so maybe it gets quick attention.

It's just my opinion, but if I were a Mod, I wouldn't allow such threads to exist in the forum. It's disrespectful and insulting. Allowing these types of mudslinging posts between Christians sends a terrible message to lurkers, if you ask me.

I agree that it forms a bad witness, but I guess there has to be a decision of how much you control people's behavior. The odd thing is that I would think that those who post in charity would score points for their credibility. But it seems some folks are impressed by the sarcastic "zing" and like a boxing match, whoever scores the most points, wins.

That's good. Well, nothing will happen today, but maybe later on. I don't post in GT anymore, but hopefully those who do will see it closed or gone in the next few days.

It closed for review last night.

 

[Dorothea]

Actually, I think stamping out the flames before a raging fire develops is helpful.

I agree. Letting people slam each other in subtle insults for pages on end is not in the spirit of showing charity and love as Christians, imo, and to allow it to go on for pages isn't showing concern for this - at least the impression I get.

I agree that it forms a bad witness, but I guess there has to be a decision of how much you control people's behavior. The odd thing is that I would think that those who post in charity would score points for their credibility. But it seems some folks are impressed by the sarcastic "zing" and like a boxing match, whoever scores the most points, wins.

Yes, that is the impression I get. Who gets the last "zing" in. Well, that's not really great discussion but who's ego can be inflated the most, which then those who confess their sins, must take to Confession with them in the days following.

It closed for review last night.

Ok

 

[James Is Back]

Guys on reporting don't be afraid to report someone. If it looks like a rule vio then by all means report it and we will take it from there. We need to take action against a rule violator and make sure they are dealt with before it gets out of control. For example is someone is flaming someone else report it before there are 20 posts of a back and forth flame fest. This makes our job easier and lets us deal with the situation before is escalates into something much bigger.

We can only do so much. We need the members of CF to help us deal with bad situations and that means reporting people who are breaking the rules.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Guys on reporting don't be afraid to report someone. If it looks like a rule vio then by all means report it and we will take it from there. We need to take action against a rule violator and make sure they are dealt with before it gets out of control. For example is someone is flaming someone else report it before there are 20 posts of a back and forth flame fest. This makes our job easier and lets us deal with the situation before is escalates into something much bigger.

We can only do so much. We need the members of CF to help us deal with bad situations and that means reporting people who are breaking the rules.

The trouble is ... Sometimes you see someone who you are pretty sure is just being snarky and insulting (which means I just judged their motives - something from a spiritual standpoint I don't like to do). But then "being a jerk" isn't actionable from a moderation standpoint, is it? I always try to put myself in the other person's position and assume motives as pure as possible, and examine their words as charitably as possible. Many posters are quite skillful, it appears, in saying things that on the surface will be taken as a jab or insult (if one is "opposed" to them, it's much more likely), yet from their own position there is usually an interpretation that is much more innocent.

Spiritually, it's not good or right (IMO) for me to be judging the motives of others. Of course, most posters have a position which they make obvious enough, so their words do most likely mean what they seem to mean. But I don't like to set myself as judge. And on top of that, I imagine that if there is any possible other way to take their words, the mods might give them the benefit of the doubt. Which means I wasted the mod's time, put myself in a position of not only judging but having acted on my judgment of another's motives, and no good came of it all anyway.

I probably overthink things. But that's probably a good part of the explanation for why I rarely report. I usually try to only do so if I think actual harm is likely to come to someone from the post, which would seem to outweigh the rest.

 

[rusmeister]

Welcome.

I understand what you are saying and thank you for this.
Let me just respond to some points in general as well as to what CFs concerns are.

Let me start from the end.
You made a strong and unusual to many statement that Orthodox Church "wrote" the Bible instead of compiling that what was already accepted and read in local churches.
But that us your opinion and it is a great topic of discussion.

You also used a distinction of "historic Islam" as compared to "moderate Islam" in order to show a degree of violence on each side.
This is what I am also asking. Let people not broad stroke moderate Muslims as violent. Islam covers all shades of Muslims.

You also shared your concerns about the church getting apostate.
The church IS getting apostate and WILL get more apostate in time before the 2nd Coming of Christ.
It is expected and we are told how to address this.
Patience, do not get politically involved, keep yourself pure, love each other.
And we WILL be chased down to worshiping in basements while Christmas becomes a "Holiday" where the stores celebrate all the money they make.

I have my own views on how to combat all this, but this thread is a not a place for it.

Political correctness within TAW and CF.
PC is not being promoted nor encouraged at CF.

Straight talk is best talk, as long as you do not intend to personally insult an individual you have never met and as long as your statements accurately reflect the facts.

Do we have a freedom of opinion here? No.
You cannot call someone an idiot just because it is your opinion.

Can you discuss any topic?
Yes, as long as you are not abusing on-line people you have never met.

Are we expected to use a mind-numbing philosophical posting style where no one understands what the heck the other one said?
No, this will kill a forum faster than a heresy.

What I am presenting here is how to adjust the posting style by expressing oneself as clearly and accurately as you can to individuals we know nothing about.

Address the post not the poster has been a pretty good rule of posting netiquette.

Thanks,
Ed

Rewriting a post here. The Russian holidays kick in as the Western ones are winding down, and I have been run down to near total exhaustion. Then, while writing, I inadvertently closed the window.

I think we've been saying the same thing in that I've been talking about addressing the ideas, not the person and you say the post and not the poster, which I take to mean the same thing. No problem there.

Style, though, is subjective, and can vary greatly. If there is an actual link between cabbages and kings, it may take a lot of talking around things to get to the point. Many of the theological, philosophical, social, economic and other ideas are of sufficient complexity that they require exposition that exceeds the attention span of laboratory rats, and now of many humans, and that may be seen as style. (If anyone senses that I have GK Chesterton in mind, they are right. Amd as an example of appreciating and admiring one's philosophical foes, there is hardly a better teacher than GKC, the very model of non-abuse).

My concerns remain, though. The chief one is underscored by your reference to the Church. We don't agree on what that is, and as such, are doomed to talk past each other. This is a constant hindrance to mutual understanding. When you say "we are told how to address this" I take it you are referring to Scripture "telling" us, without a specific common authority to interpret it. Thus, we can never be sure there is an "us". Sometimes and on some things, we are sure there is not. That said, I still recognize that we do share vital things in common, as well, and suffering persecution is liable to be one of those things. Nevertheless, there will always be a problem with any moderation of things where the moderated may not recognize the authority to be moderated; specifically, if we think we have a religious mandate to condemn Islam, which specifically denies that Christ came in the flesh, then we're going to do it, the moderators will quash us because they think we are attacking individuals, or saying that all Muslims are evil scumbags, or whatever, and we will leave, one by one or en masse.

So that's the other concern: that the generalizations will be forbidden because relatively tiny minorities exist that are exceptions, even if they are the exception that proves the rule. Indeed, the very fact that we have to speak of "moderate" Muslims implies that they are not in fact representative of the majority. And the generalization is true in space and time, the vital difference that common interpretation of the source of Muslim teaching, above all, the Koran, blesses the Muslim ideas and practices that we condemn as evil and "extreme", whereas the common interpretations of Christian teaching forbid them, the spreading of the Faith by force or deception, the very existence of taquiyya (and yes, I know how they are now trying to get us to think of it), devshirme and jihad.

So an insistence that the generalizations be disallowed because a minority in the West disavows them (to our faces, at least) is effectively support of Islam. I, for one, am certainly ready to concede both what the Muslim in right about in his faith and teachings, and even that there are honest and sincere Muslims who think that the common interpretations of the Koran are wrong. I have no trouble imagining good in people. But what is true about the thing as a whole is not changed or denied by the exceptions to the rule.