Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Now it is my turn to be slow.OK I admit that I'm a little slow sometimes and I am terrible remembering names (but I'm smart) lol. Who is Henry?
Well, in my church experience, if someone starts the "Law of Christ" stuff - they mean "Everything but the 10 commandments is moot, no good, and I don't know why we even have this other 3/4ths of the book - it doesn't apply to me and it makes no sense".
Now it is my turn to be slow.
Henry?
I don't know. Matthew, maybe?
Everybody's got a threshold when it comes to having their buttons pushed.
MJ does not segregate Jews and Gentiles or make either group feel shame for how they dress. Main stream MJ accepts both groups as one people and neither forbids or demands a certain Jewish dress code
The Messianic Perspective is somewhat different from most of mainstream Christianity.Marie Lynn said:Hi Pat,
As an observer from the outside would you mind explaining to me what one is being saved from? What is the Messianic perspective of salvation, or would it be the same as the view of salvation within mainstream Christianity?
Thank you
Wow Tish,Do you really think you rant is helpful at ending this feud Tal? Are you prepared to keep going on as usual and also expect them to change and respect you In spite of your mudslinging? I realize you have been enduring a lot of threads being hijacked , but is this the answer?
Avodat said:With respect we've heard that before. I think that, when you literally plead with Mods to do something to solve the problems and you actually go out of your way to come up with a working answer, and what is suggested is a minor matter for them - and it is neither rejected nor accepted or, on one occasion, you are told to tell someone else, I see no point in suggesting anything anymore. It might have been yesterday, but it breeds no confidence in anything actually happening today.
First of all I think there are many changes ongoing in many American churches and I don't approve but, then again, I don't hang out in them. I'm just very aware because many of them are high profile. I'm speaking of the churches that focus solely on the NT. That's just not healthy if one is teaching about God. Who can understand God solely from the NT? It's impossible. This newer teaching style and outlook is where the "Law of Christ" comes from. It's not that it's not Scriptural. It is, but it doesn't mean the same thing from the sole perspective of NT teaching. The New without the Old is cut off from Christianity's foundation. Many are flocking to these churches because it just plain feels better. Prayerfully, God will bring them to a fuller perspective in time. I don't know, He's in control so I continue to pray for the Body as a whole.
I've never been in any Christian church that the 4th commandment is totally negated. The Church has undergone influences that removed it from the Judaic perspective. Many believe that Sunday worship is observing the Sabbath and it's quite possible that God's okay with that because it is the attitude of the heart that Scripture also indicates is very important to Him. God commanded a day of rest for us to share with Him. In Judaism and MJ, and others, that is the seventh day Sabbath according to the Judaic calendar. For others it's Sunday. I leave the judgment of things like this to God. I read the Scriptures and ask for His guidance and wisdom. I'm here in MJ because this is where He has led me and, oh look, there's others here with me! At first I think, this is cool, we're all here because we all believe the same but, uh oh, I find out that's not exactly the case. Okay, I go back to square one. You know, the place where I leave the judgment of things like this to God.
Have faith brother, it takes what it takes. And some things not just on CF but in the secular world seem like such simple things to solve. And they take some time. But we're working on all of this and I believe we will come up with some powerful improvements. Remember, we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. God bless.With respect we've heard that before. I think that, when you literally plead with Mods to do something to solve the problems and you actually go out of your way to come up with a working answer, and what is suggested is a minor matter for them - and it is neither rejected nor accepted or, on one occasion, you are told to tell someone else, I see no point in suggesting anything anymore. It might have been yesterday, but it breeds no confidence in anything actually happening today.
To me in reality Messianic Judaism is Judaism and/or Christianity but biblical Judaism or biblical Christianity.
Is Torah observance mandatory for salvation? No. After salvation, yes, it is as mandatory as a married person keeping the vows they made.
Easy G (G²);60062012 said:If you're speaking of God's Word, then by default you're talking on Torah--as that simply means teaching/Law, something the Lord has given each generation in the scriptures, with what was said in one era differing in certain ways from another. It's why what Christ noted/did in expanding/giving completion to the Torah, as well as what was noted in the New Covenant (according to Hebrews) is also considered Torah as well. What we were given in the NT is different than what was present in the OT, even though aspects of the OT do carry over/are there for our examples as both edifications and warnings (I Corinthians 10, Hebrews 3-4, etc)...and as others noted best in another discussion:
The moral of the story of the video 'it's like we are fighting over a penney'.
.
Got ya. I go with others who also include things such as the Psalms (also referred to as Law as well, both by Christ and others) alongside the Pentateuch..and the Laws given to those who are NT believers as well.Understood. But when I think Torah, and perhaps that is because of my Protestant background, I think the Pentateuch. .
Likewise..When I think of Tenakh or Old Testament, I think of Torah, Nevi'im and Kethuvim.
Apocrypha was a bit more extensive as the Middle books, unless I misunderstood you...but that's another issue which can perhaps be debated in another thread. More on the Tanak and the Apocryph as well as the B'rit Hadashah was shared before in another thread (seen here in #410 ). Additionally, if interested, there's actually an excellent book on the issue of how the Hebrew Bible came to be as it was---and how their view of "books" isn't necessarily the same as how we see it today. It's called Scribal culture and the making of the Hebrew Bible" by K. van der ToornWhen I think of the middle books I think Apocrypha
Feeling ya...and when I think of New Testament, I think B'rit Hadashah. All told, to me, it is God's word...the Scriptures
the majority of Messianic Jews will disagree. Not about the marriage vow but your statement that Torah observance is mandatory after salvation.
What do you think happens to those who do not keep the law?
Er, shouldn't all this debate about Torah be on the 'Anything Torah' thread? Could have sworn that point was made by the mods near the beginning of this thread.
Everyone's at a different spot, some more low key and others living out loud
I understand. In my understanding/experience, we have Messianics across about every field of Jewish observance, and a couple "flavors" of Christianity. Sometimes you walk in a place and know where they stand as far as their services, and sometimes it takes a while to find out. There are some who are pretty pushy about their beliefs without much explanation as to how/why, and there are others that are more "I'm ok, you're ok" - very positive places to be, with some common ground in place. It doesn't mean fights don't happen, but they're usually very well managed.
.
With the Lord all things are possible...but if it doesn't get resolved either quickly or easily, folks can still rejoice that at least we're all still breathing/living lifeI really do think some of this is difference in personality types and some of it due to miscommunication.
I just wish we could work it out quickly.
Can relate, as it's odd whenever I talk to others about some of the beautiful things in the OT and the response is "Oh, that's just OT and Jesus wasn't for that!!!"....only to be surprised to see where he, as a Jewish man, lived it out while also working with Gentiles where they were at. All of it, to me, goes under the Law of Christ since whatever Christ advocated is what is to be Law for us....Well, in my church experience, if someone starts the "Law of Christ" stuff - they mean "Everything but the 10 commandments is moot, no good, and I don't know why we even have this other 3/4ths of the book - it doesn't apply to me and it makes no sense".
Some say that I have a narrow view when I bring that up, but that is the bulk of the Christian outlook on this in the South where I have lived (VA, SC/GA, AL, MS, TX) and also overseas (Spain/Germany). There have been very rare exceptions to that. It doesn't mean there aren't any who disagree, there just aren't many at all where I've been and the thousands of people I've met in my life
Mishkhan was quoting my post, but it doesn't show when you quote him. Actually you should have quoted my post for this question.OK I admit that I'm a little slow sometimes and I am terrible remembering names (but I'm smart) lol. Who is Henry?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?