St. Paul Demonstrating Sola Scriptura In Scripture

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A More Jewish Version of St. Paul

Today’s idea: St. Paul, the apostle long considered the progenitor of anti-Semitism, never left the Jewish faith, a new generation of scholars argues.


Paul by el Greco
Religion | Funny, some might say archly, he didn’t act Jewish.

But just as historians have uncovered a more Jewish version of Jesus in recent decades, a new crop of “Pauline revisionists” have “discovered a more Jewish Paul, a product of the same place and time,” writes Judith Shulevitz in Tablet. She counts among the revisionists the historian Garry Wills and Pamela Eisenbaum, a New Testament scholar and author of a new book, “Paul Was Not a Christian.”

A More Jewish Version of St. Paul - NYTimes.com

The entirety of Paul's revelation came directly from the Old Testament.

Jesus post resurrection also reasoned with disciples from the Old Testament.

This does not equate to the fact that the Old Testament Jews had complete understandings. Types and Shadows were reserved until Gods Own Arrival in flesh and Living Word to reveal.

What happened in the O.T. rituals and practices was a natural showing of what would be happening in Heaven after His Ascension.

Hebrews 8:5
Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Hebrews 9:23
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

We may certainly 'look' to those matters to find spiritual understandings of what Jesus IS doing in Heaven, but to say that they are to be continual practices here is not required as they are transpiring in Heaven as a continuing reality by Perfection Himself.

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[visionary]

Book Description
Paul Was Not a Christian is a groundbreaking work that systematically overturns both scholarly and popular conceptions held by Christians and Jews, liberals and conservatives alike. As Eisenbaum reveals, Paul is not the true founder of Christianity as is often claimed, nor does Paul understand Jesus Christ as having superseded the Torah and thereby replacing Judaism with Christianity. Although Paul unabashedly proclaimed his faith in Jesus, such proclamations were not inherently "Christian," since no such religious category existed in Paul's time. Jesus, rather, represented the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that he would be a blessing to the nations.

Eisenbaum's work reverses the image we have of Paul as a model for Christian conversion and greatly increases our understanding of both Judaism and Christianity. Provocatively argued and far-reaching in its implications, Paul Was Not a Christian is a much-needed corrective to the traditional portrait of Paul and his divisive legacy.

The book’s great accomplishment is to show us a historically plausible picture of a fully Jewish Paul who was also fully committed to Christ.
— DR. STANLEY STOWERS, CHAIR OF RELIGIOUS STUDIES, BROWN UNIVERSITY, AND AUTHOR OF A REREADING OF ROMANS: JUSTICE, JEWS AND GENTILES

Paul Was Not a Christian: The Original Message of a Misunderstood Apostle by Pamela Eisenbaum

 

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Paul Was Not a Christian
Paul Was Not a Christian: The Original Message of a Misunderstood Apostle by Pamela Eisenbaum

Let's face a fact. Those types of 'headlines' are meant to keep the writers employed and the schools funded. It's a system geared to justify the $ flow. Headlines sell news and books.

If the people of Israel had one major blindness it was not recognizing that their enemies were internal. The external enemies that God sent them were a picture of their internal condition.

It's not really then a question of Jewish or Christian, but a scriptural exposure of the internal problems that 'all' of us have and our 'need' for Him.

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[visionary]

Let's face a fact. Those types of 'headlines' are meant to keep the writers employed and the schools funded. It's a system geared to justify the $ flow. Headlines sell news and books.

If the people of Israel had one major blindness it was not recognizing that their enemies were internal. The external enemies that God sent them were a picture of their internal condition.

It's not really then a question of Jewish or Christian, but a scriptural exposure of the internal problems that 'all' of us have and our 'need' for Him.

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would you have recognized him if you lived back then and ran into him on the street? especially after hearing what he is really saying?

 

[Standing Up]

Book Description
Paul Was Not a Christian is a groundbreaking work that systematically overturns both scholarly and popular conceptions held by Christians and Jews, liberals and conservatives alike. As Eisenbaum reveals, Paul is not the true founder of Christianity as is often claimed, nor does Paul understand Jesus Christ as having superseded the Torah and thereby replacing Judaism with Christianity. Although Paul unabashedly proclaimed his faith in Jesus, such proclamations were not inherently "Christian," since no such religious category existed in Paul's time. Jesus, rather, represented the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that he would be a blessing to the nations.

Eisenbaum's work reverses the image we have of Paul as a model for Christian conversion and greatly increases our understanding of both Judaism and Christianity. Provocatively argued and far-reaching in its implications, Paul Was Not a Christian is a much-needed corrective to the traditional portrait of Paul and his divisive legacy.

The book’s great accomplishment is to show us a historically plausible picture of a fully Jewish Paul who was also fully committed to Christ.
— DR. STANLEY STOWERS, CHAIR OF RELIGIOUS STUDIES, BROWN UNIVERSITY, AND AUTHOR OF A REREADING OF ROMANS: JUSTICE, JEWS AND GENTILES

Paul Was Not a Christian: The Original Message of a Misunderstood Apostle by Pamela Eisenbaum

I suspect folks have inadvertently picked on the wrong person, the wrong lineage so to speak. Just sayin'.

 

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would you have recognized him if you lived back then and ran into him on the street? especially after hearing what he is really saying?

Paul or Jesus? My own 'conversion' came from a Godly example from a sincere believer that piqued my interest from his relationship with God in Christ, which led me to read His Word which led me to experience the love of God in my heart.

Truth is proclaimed by His Word both in life by those who handle/live same and by The Word Himself. Truth opens the ears. Truth also prompts the tempter to enter and blind.

It is Gods Sole choice as to the events and the outcomes. Not my call.

Paul was thankful for whatever way Christ was proclaimed, even if in pretense. I think he was so for the confidence he had in Christ Himself doing the work.

s

 

[Rick Otto]

Paul was thankful for whatever way Christ was proclaimed, even if in pretense. I think he was so for the confidence he had in Christ Himself doing the work.

That's the way I understood it.

 

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That's the way I understood it.

Word Alone takes on more meaning when we see Living in front of the term sola scriptura.

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[visionary]

Paul the Jewish Theologian reveals Saul of Tarsus as a man who, though rejected in the synagogue, never truly left Judaism. Author Young disagrees with long held notions that Hellenism was the context which most influenced Paul's communication of the Gospel. This skewed notion has led to widely divergent interpretations of Paul's writings. Only in rightly aligning Paul as rooted in his Jewishness and training as a Pharisee can he be correctly interpreted. Young asserts that Paul's view of the Torah was always positive, and he separates Jesus' mission among the Jews from Paul's call to the Gentiles.
"The Pharisee Saul of Tarsus is arguably one of the most influential religious figures in the history of Western culture. . . . Brad Young is one of the important theologians who is leading the way for Christians to explore the Jewish roots of Jesus, Paul, and Christianity. . . . Brad Young has endeavored to excavate Paul's Pharisaic roots for all to examine, while at the same time leaving the family tree firmly planted and continuing to grow."

—Rabbi Dr. Burton Visotzky, Appleman Chair of Midrash and Interreligious Studies, Jewish Theological Seminary, New York
"Brad Young offers an extremely well-informed, insightful study of Paul as a Jewish theologian. . . . Among the many important qualities Brad Young gained from his years of study from Jewish scholars is a love for and an almost exclusive focus upon the text, what it actually says and does not say; and this perspective has led him to some new, important, and sometimes 'unorthodox' conclusions."

—Rev. Dr. Cheryl Anne Brown, Professor/Consultant, Theological Assistance Group, European Baptist Federation

http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Jewish-T...=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327679063&sr=1-5

 

[Rick Otto]

'unorthodox' conclusions

Oh my! Heaven forbid!

 

[visionary]

Although the roots of Christianity run deep into Hebrew soil, many Christians are regrettably uninformed about the rich Hebrew heritage of the church. This volume delineates the link between Judaism and Christianity, between the Old and the New Testaments, and calls Christians to re-examine their Hebrew roots so as to effect a more authentically biblical lifestyle.

Our Father Abraham

 

[squint]

Although the roots of Christianity run deep into Hebrew soil, many Christians are regrettably uninformed about the rich Hebrew heritage of the church. This volume delineates the link between Judaism and Christianity, between the Old and the New Testaments, and calls Christians to re-examine their Hebrew roots so as to effect a more authentically biblical lifestyle.

Our Father Abraham

IF we expect to receive Divine Mercy, then it would seem important not to block that to other people, particularly those of Jewish heritage, per Paul's admonishment here:

Romans 11:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

s

 

[visionary]

IF we expect to receive Divine Mercy, then it would seem important not to block that to other people, particularly those of Jewish heritage, per Paul's admonishment here:

Romans 11:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

s

Yep.. working on removing the road blocks... building bridges..

 

[Frogster]

Although the roots of Christianity run deep into Hebrew soil, many Christians are regrettably uninformed about the rich Hebrew heritage of the church. This volume delineates the link between Judaism and Christianity, between the Old and the New Testaments, and calls Christians to re-examine their Hebrew roots so as to effect a more authentically biblical lifestyle.

Our Father Abraham

read rom 4;12, even the Jews have to walk as Abe did, before circumcision. Abe was used everywhere by Paul, to ward of jewish nationalism, judaism, and law, that is a factoid of the day.

So we do not have "hebrew roots", it is not a carnal connection, read rom 9:8, it is not the children of fleshh who are the children of God, but promise, and in Abe, no more jew or gentile, col 3;11, gal 3;28.

 

[Frogster]

Paul the Jewish Theologian reveals Saul of Tarsus as a man who, though rejected in the synagogue, never truly left Judaism. Author Young disagrees with long held notions that Hellenism was the context which most influenced Paul's communication of the Gospel. This skewed notion has led to widely divergent interpretations of Paul's writings. Only in rightly aligning Paul as rooted in his Jewishness and training as a Pharisee can he be correctly interpreted. Young asserts that Paul's view of the Torah was always positive, and he separates Jesus' mission among the Jews from Paul's call to the Gentiles.
"The Pharisee Saul of Tarsus is arguably one of the most influential religious figures in the history of Western culture. . . . Brad Young is one of the important theologians who is leading the way for Christians to explore the Jewish roots of Jesus, Paul, and Christianity. . . . Brad Young has endeavored to excavate Paul's Pharisaic roots for all to examine, while at the same time leaving the family tree firmly planted and continuing to grow."

—Rabbi Dr. Burton Visotzky, Appleman Chair of Midrash and Interreligious Studies, Jewish Theological Seminary, New York
"Brad Young offers an extremely well-informed, insightful study of Paul as a Jewish theologian. . . . Among the many important qualities Brad Young gained from his years of study from Jewish scholars is a love for and an almost exclusive focus upon the text, what it actually says and does not say; and this perspective has led him to some new, important, and sometimes 'unorthodox' conclusions."

—Rev. Dr. Cheryl Anne Brown, Professor/Consultant, Theological Assistance Group, European Baptist Federation

http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Jewish-T...=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327679063&sr=1-5

all the jewish Christians in Antioch, were not living as jews.

here..right from paul himself, after he said he wasted his time, if the church got under the jewish calendar


AMP 4:12Brethren, I beg of you, become as I am [free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordinances], for I also have become as you are [[e]a Gentile]. You did me no wrong [[f]in the days when I first came to you; do not do it now].

 

[visionary]

You should talk to an orthodox [pharisee] Jew about what they [that includes Paul] means when he says he is free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordances [not living as Jews] it is different than what you are presenting.

 

[squint]

read rom 4;12, even the Jews have to walk as Abe did, before circumcision. Abe was used everywhere by Paul, to ward of jewish nationalism, judaism, and law, that is a factoid of the day.

So we do not have "hebrew roots", it is not a carnal connection, read rom 9:8, it is not the children of fleshh who are the children of God, but promise, and in Abe, no more jew or gentile, col 3;11, gal 3;28.

Abraham, the father of faith had a son of the flesh and a son of promise. Allegories applicable to every believer.

Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

s

 

[Frogster]

You should talk to an orthodox [pharisee] Jew about what they [that includes Paul] means when he says he is free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordances [not living as Jews] it is different than what you are presenting.

Galatians was about mosaic law, that was the context.

Can u show me how I am wrong?

thanks.

 

[visionary]

Galatians was about mosaic law, that was the context.

Can u show me how I am wrong?

thanks.

one.. you don't see to be able to distinguish between what Moses wrote on parchment and the rituals of the Pharisees that has so prevalent in Paul's life time.

 

[Frogster]

one.. you don't see to be able to distinguish between what Moses wrote on parchment and the rituals of the Pharisees that has so prevalent in Paul's life time.

show me it in galatians, as per our subject here. lets see this oral law please.