St. Paul Demonstrating Sola Scriptura In Scripture

[sculleywr]

"Nice try" as Albion says. The only thing crystal clear about Acts 20:7 is that they broke bread on the 1st day, not that they would actually alter one of the ten commandments. Without much fanfare, debate, or explanation as far as we know.

DOn't a large number of Catholic churches have Saturday services and Sunday services, which would render the argument irrelevant, as well as off-topic unless we want to bring this back to the topic?

 

[Albion]

"Nice try" as Albion says. The only thing crystal clear about Acts 20:7 is that they broke bread on the 1st day, not that they would actually alter one of the ten commandments. Without much fanfare, debate, or explanation as far as we know.

Check with your infallible denomination and see if it agrees with you.

Meanwhile, here's what "Catholic Answers" the well-known Roman Catholic website, has to say about it--

"Some religious organizations (Seventh-day Adventists, Seventh-Day Baptists, and certain others) claim that Christians must not worship on Sunday but on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath. They claim that, at some unnamed time after the apostolic age, the Church "changed" the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

However, passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead."

 

[fhansen]

LOL You and I have seen that one before haven't we?--"Sola Scriptura is all wrong, and we know this because of our reading of Scripture and, oh yes, we are the ones who wrote it! But it's still wrong to trust it."

Nope, its not Scripture that can't be trusted; we're maintaining that it can be. It's only its various private interpreters that can't necessarily be trusted

 

[fhansen]

Check with your infallible denomination and see if it agrees with you.

Oh, ok. Yep, it does.

 

[Albion]

Oh, ok. Yep, it does.

"However, passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead."

Wanna reconsider that?

 

[fhansen]

"However, passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead."

Wanna reconsider that?

Scripture will always support church tradition, and never conflict with it, even if only cursorily supporting it as in the case of the Sabbath where the most that can be said is that Sunday worship, with Saturday no longer binding, is only indicated by Scripture. And this mutual support is why the church constantly refers to both, scripture and tradition. In any case, as I said, it would be a huge stretch to think that anyone would pick up the bible, read the old and new testaments, and decide on their own to completely forgo Saturday Sabbath observance. But it's a convenient position for SS adherents I suppose.

 

[redleghunter]

Check with your infallible denomination and see if it agrees with you.

Meanwhile, here's what "Catholic Answers" the well-known Roman Catholic website, has to say about it--

"Some religious organizations (Seventh-day Adventists, Seventh-Day Baptists, and certain others) claim that Christians must not worship on Sunday but on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath. They claim that, at some unnamed time after the apostolic age, the Church "changed" the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

However, passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead."

LOL. Amazing how handy Catholic Answers comes in now and then.

What's all this Gentile Roman Saturday and Sunday?

They all have it wrong. It's last day of the week is Sabbath and first day of the week they broke bread. Pose that to Catholic Answers. Would love to see the answer.

 

[redleghunter]

Nope, its not Scripture that can't be trusted; we're maintaining that it can be. It's only its various private interpreters that can't necessarily be trusted

Actually Catholics have more flexibility in self interpretation.

How many Bible verses have been interpreted via infallible Magesterium?

 

[redleghunter]

"However, passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead."

Wanna reconsider that?

I would just add the Sabbath rest we have in Christ:

Hebrews 4:

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[fhansen]

Actually Catholics have more flexibility in self interpretation.

How many Bible verses have been interpreted via infallible Magesterium?

No interpretation can be in conflict with church teaching tho, which, again, isn't based firstly on scripture but rather on the faith as it was received, both in agreement.

 

[fhansen]

LOL. Amazing how handy Catholic Answers comes in now and then.

What's all this Gentile Roman Saturday and Sunday?

They all have it wrong. It's last day of the week is Sabbath and first day of the week they broke bread. Pose that to Catholic Answers. Would love to see the answer.

But last day of the week hasn't been strictly observed as sabbath in Christianity, if at all, as commanded through Moses except by a few SS adherents.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Check with your infallible denomination and see if it agrees with you.

Meanwhile, here's what "Catholic Answers" the well-known Roman Catholic website, has to say about it--

"Some religious organizations (Seventh-day Adventists, Seventh-Day Baptists, and certain others) claim that Christians must not worship on Sunday but on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath. They claim that, at some unnamed time after the apostolic age, the Church "changed" the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

However, passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead."

Actually there is nowhere in the Bible of any requirement of worship on the Sabbath Day if you read the only commandment was to cease from working. The SDA and others have made worship into a "work" on the Sabbath and equate it also akin to a "work" on Sunday.

 

[Albion]

Actually there is nowhere in the Bible of any requirement of worship on the Sabbath Day if you read the only commandment was to cease from working. The SDA and others have made worship into a "work" on the Sabbath and equate it also akin to a "work" on Sunday.

That's a valid point that is seldom mentioned during discussions of this subject.

 

[Standing Up]

Yes, and going by Scripture alone the SDAs have it right regarding the Sabbath. Who wouldn't, picking up the bible in some later century without the benefit of tradition, observe Sabbath on the 7th day? But the church that Christ established rested, worshiped, and shared the body and blood on the Lord's Day from the beginning-without historical objection. It's just the way they did it.

It didn't "just happen", but was a definite relearning of the Covenants and how Gentiles were grafted in. SDA don't have it right, assuming they put their righteousness in observing the Sabbath. Gentiles were never part of the OC. We were excluded, but we (Jew and Gentile) have come, or all may comes, to Zion. Our righteousness is in Christ. Not observing the Mosaic Law.

It's a tough sell.

 

[Sophrosyne]

That's a valid point that is seldom mentioned during discussions of this subject.

That is because there is a separate area of the forum for Sabbath and the Law threads where you see the Sabbath and 10 commandments promoters.

 

[BobRyan]

"However, passages of Scripture such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, "the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead."

Wanna reconsider that?

Actually there is nowhere in the Bible of any requirement of worship on the Sabbath Day if you read the only commandment was to cease from working. The SDA and others have made worship into a "work" on the Sabbath and equate it also akin to a "work" on Sunday.

Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to WORSHIP"
Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND"
Acts 13 - Sabbath after Sabbath Gospel preaching and worship in the synagogue. Both Jews and Gentiles
Acts 17:1-5 Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath - Gospel preaching and worship in the synagogues - both Jews and Gentiles
Acts 18 - Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath - Gospel preaching and worship in the synagogues - both Jews and gentiles.
Rev 14:7 "Worship Him who made the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water.."
Heb 4 "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

There is a "sola scriptura" way to study that subject.

Oct 19, 2015 #1

And of course the "Change" of the Sabbath Commandment -- thread.
Nov 21, 2015 #1

 

[Albion]

There is a "sola scriptura" way to study that subject.

It includes the New Testament, I'm quite sure. In it, we have the decision to make Sunday the church's primary day of worship and, as well, the authorization. I don't find that the verses you've cited teach what you think they do, BTW.

 

[BobRyan]

But last day of the week hasn't been strictly observed as sabbath in Christianity, if at all, as commanded through Moses except by a few SS adherents.

According to the pro-sunday sources in my signature line - there is a great majority of pro-sunday scholarship claiming that the Sabbath commandment continues to be binding on all mankind - though "Changed" via "tradition" to point to week-day-1 at some time after the cross.

 

[BobRyan]

Scripture will always support church tradition, and never conflict with it, even if only cursorily supporting it as in the case of the Sabbath where the most that can be said is that Sunday worship, with Saturday no longer binding, is only indicated by Scripture.

actually - it is not even "indicated" by scripture. At least some of your own Catholic sources say that.


The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================

 

[BobRyan]

That last point - illustrates the "sola scriptura" debate in triplicate.