Spurgeon Preached Old Earth Creationism

[Astrid]

Proves that ice is pretty stable.

You are aware that ice floats and melts.
If you have to deny that to keep your beliefs
afloat there may be a flaw in your beliefs.

 

[Astrid]

You haven’t listened to anything I’ve said. You keep going back to the cookie-cutter teaching that all the things you mention had to happen gradually over very lengthy periods of time, layer after layer, and present an order of evolution. I have told you the difference is it was done rapidly, the Genesis Flood, and the layers reflect only the order in which the remains were buried by catastrophic fountain of the deep eruptions, great land mass break-ups, deluge, and wave after wave with run-off. Animals could have been buried in their tracks; petrified trees and animal fossils in the same layer may not have even lived at the same time. Volcano eruptions probably encircled the globe, and you think you know what happened.

Oh, I've read your nonsense, and could
refute every made- up claim one by one,
but the fact that there was no flood
disproves all of them at once.

Saying "ice is stable", an obvious falsehood,
hardly adds value to your claims.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Spurgeon explicitly taught that the earth is many million of years old. For example, in his sermon, “The Power of the Holy Spirit” that he preached on June 17, 1855, he said (as is shown in his manuscripts of his sermons),

In the 2d verse of the first chapter of Genesis, we read, “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” We know not how remote the period of the creation of this globe may be—certainly many millions of years before the time of Adam. Our planet has passed through various stages of existence, and different kinds of creatures have lived on its surface, all of which have been fashioned by God. But before that era came, wherein man should be its principal tenant and monarch, the Creator gave up the world to confusion. He allowed the inward fires to burst up from beneath, and melt all the solid matter, so that all kinds of substances were commingled in one vast mass of disorder.​

Here is more on Spurgeon's views-- Charles H. Spurgeon and the Age of the Earth.

 

[inquiring mind]

You are aware that ice floats and melts.
If you have to deny that to keep your beliefs
afloat there may be a flaw in your beliefs.

Oh, I've read your nonsense, and could
refute every made- up claim one by one,
but the fact that there was no flood
disproves all of them at once.

Saying "ice is stable", an obvious falsehood,
hardly adds value to your claims.

Isn't glacier ice a type of rock?

 

[AV1611VET]

No red flag goes up when you
realize a global flood when float
the ice off of Antarctica and Greenland?

It's still there. Proves there was no flood.
Simple.

There were no polar ice caps prior to the Flood.

No Arctic because the earth was a tropical paradise.

Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

No Antarctica because the earth was one giant landmass at the time: Pangaea & Panthalassa.

Genesis 10:25a And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided;

Peleg was Noah's great-great-great grandson.

 

[Astrid]

Isn't glacier ice a type of rock?

Ice is ice. It floats. Then it melts.
Surely you know that.
A wwf would have floated the polar ice.
It's a super simple concept.

 

[inquiring mind]

Ice is ice. It floats. Then it melts.
Surely you know that.
A wwf would have floated the polar ice.
It's a super simple concept.

What are the two 'musts' for a glacier?

 

[Astrid]

What are the two 'musts' for a glacier?

You tell me. Never heard of any "musts'.

I've walked on glaciers. They are made of ice.

 

[AV1611VET]

A wwf would have floated the polar ice.

What polar ice?

The polar ice you've been taught in a classroom?

I'll bet you'll never hear ... in a classroom setting ... that man existed before the polar ice caps.

Instead, you'll hear the opposite.

Then you'll come here, and we'll sort it all out for you, while you guys make snide remarks, insults, and cat calls.

Academia breeds hostility.

 

[AV1611VET]

I've walked on glaciers. They are made of ice.

Not before the Flood, you didn't.

 

[inquiring mind]

You tell me. Never heard of any "musts'.

I've walked on glaciers. They are made of ice.

I'm going to drop the questioning angle. It's obvious at this point that your scientific reasoning in regard to glaciers is as full of holes as TOE. Personally, I agree with AV's comment that there were no polar ice caps prior to the Flood anyway.

 

[Astrid]

I'm going to drop the questioning angle. It's obvious at this point that your scientific reasoning in regard to glaciers is as full of holes as TOE. Personally, I agree with AV's comment that there were no polar ice caps prior to the Flood anyway.

There are no "holes". You just made that
up.

Ice floats. It's silly to deny it.
Is that why you switched to denying that there was any ice?

Your source of reliable information
claims excess flood water was wafted to
Neptune where it shunes to this day as a warning
beacon against incoming rogue angels.

Is that what you consider a good source?

The ice is far older than the purported flood.

Of course the counter to that is that either them
Satanic scientists falsify the data, or that God did.

 

[inquiring mind]

The ice is far older than the purported flood.

Is that taking into consideration the age of the water in the fountains of the deep that make up the ice?

Ice floats. It's silly to deny it.
Is that why you switched to denying that there was any ice?

You're thinking (?) of icebergs.

 

[AV1611VET]

Your source of reliable information
claims excess flood water was wafted to
Neptune where it shines to this day as a warning
beacon against incoming rogue angels.

As opposed to what?

Your source of information, which says there was no water here, until a comet came from space and hit the earth, creating our oceans?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Is that taking into consideration the age of the water in the fountains of the deep that make up the ice?

The ice in the ice sheets is dated by the consecutive layers caused by snowy and non-snowy seasons building the ice sheet slowly. It can be cross checked by trapped gases where applicable, and they match.

You're thinking (?) of icebergs.

All water ice at near freezing temeperatures (the ones where liquid water exists) is less dense than liquid water. It will float.

 

[Astrid]

Is that taking into consideration the age of the water in the fountains of the deep that make up the ice?

You're thinking (?) of icebergs?

There is no way to date the age of water.

Antarctic ice is up tp five miles thick.
It's fresh water, not frozen ocean.
It is not a solid uniform block of ice,
It's highly structured with annual layers.

A new layer forms from each years' snow, as
has been observed over many years of polar studies..

The layers can be counted visually quite easily.
They can also be distinguished by their different
electrical conductivity.
Every year the % sulfuric acid in the atmosphere
is different, and it is picked up by tge snow.
( sulfuric acid loves water)
Sulfuric acid makes water conductive.

Also, there is dust, pollen and volcanic ash in
the ice.
If you core the ice anywhere on earth, count down to
79 AD, there's the ash from Vesuvias ( each volcano has
different ash, as distinct as fingerprints).
There's a spike in the sulfuric acid, too, as usual
with volcanic eruption.

Carbon date the pollen too if you like.

The dates all match. The methods for determining the
age of the ice works, a mile down, five miles down. Tens of thousands of layers each with distinct
conductivity, ash, dust, and pollen. No two the same.

If you were a landlord and found your tenants
left the house thigh deep in trash, they might claim it was from a flood, yes, all from a flood.

Take it to court!

They say flood.

You show that there were receipts for pizza etc
at the bottom dated to the day they moved in.
Dried, moldy, stuck together trash.
Up through the layers there's more recent newspapers
and receipts, dog poop, chicken bones. Dirty clothes,
etc. Top layer is fresh, untroubled, receipt from day they left.

Who is the court going to believe? The tenants with
their story theckept it clean but a flood messed it up?
The guy with the story about neptune?


Icebergs break off glaciers and float. All ice floats.

The polar ice is tens of thousands of years old.

These things are clearly evident and quite easy to
understand.

 

[Astrid]

The ice in the ice sheets is dated by the consecutive layers caused by snowy and non-snowy seasons building the ice sheet slowly. It can be cross checked by trapped gases where applicable, and they match.


All water ice at near freezing temeperatures (the ones where liquid water exists) is less dense than liquid water. It will float.

Fresh water floats on top of salt water, too.
Freeze it and it floats even better.

 

[AV1611VET]

These things are clearly evident and quite easy to understand.

Was ash found in any of those ice layers from the Toba eruption?

 

[doubtingmerle]

I'm not a young earth creationist.

You believe that the earth was created in 4004 BC. In what sense are you not a young earth creationist

Mr. Morton and I duked it out on this site some time ago.

He ended up calling me a Last Thursday or Omphalos -- (if I remember correctly) -- and that was the end of it.

I consider myself an embedded ager.

"Embedded agers" believe that the earth was created so that it looked old. They would claim that all those rocks down there that look like millions of years of deposits were there from day one, and only look like they took a long time to deposit.

"Embedded age" and the Omphalos hypothesis are the same thing. See Omphalos hypothesis - Wikipedia , In what sense are you "embedded ager" and not believe in the Omphalos hypothesis?

The problem with the embedded age view, as we discussed before, is that there are millions of fossils under those rocks. If those rocks and fossils were there from day on, that means that none of those dinosaurs under those rocks ever lived?

And if they were not there from day one, how did miles of rocks and fossils get buried down there?

 

[AV1611VET]

You believe that the earth was created in 4004 BC.

That is correct.

In what sense are you not a young earth creationist.

Because I believe the earth was created with age embedded into it.

Thus, if science says the earth is 90 million years old, that's no problem for embedded agers.

As long as science doesn't say the earth GREW to be 90 million years old.

As far as I know, the only thing I have in common with YEC is that we both believe the earth has been in existence for some six thousand years.

"Embedded agers" believe that the earth was created so that it looked old.

It looks old because it was created old.

Don't confuse embedded age with apparent age.

They would claim that all those rocks down there that look like millions of years of deposits were there from day one, and only look like they took a long time to deposit.

That is Omphalos.

"Embedded age" and the Omphalos hypothesis are the same thing.

No.

I don't believe Adam had a navel, which is where Omphalos gets its name.

See Omphalos hypothesis - Wikipedia , In what sense are you "embedded ager" and not believe in the Omphalos hypothesis?

No navel, no scars, no physical evidence of passage of time.

The problem with the embedded age view, as we discussed before, is that there are millions of fossils under those rocks.

Nope.

If those rocks and fossils were there from day one, that means that none of those dinosaurs under those rocks ever lived?

They weren't there from Day One though.

And if they were not there from day one, how did miles of rocks and fossils get buried down there?

From various cataclysms in the Old Testament.