spiritual science

[dad]

Nope, it's science, rather than your 'spiriscience'.
[Ok, longs as it isn't your 'weirdocrapobeliefinanythingbutGodo' usual stuff!]


Umm...you said it was a 'total flop'. [The so called stuff, based on disbelief in God, and belief only in some alwayswashere physical only, yes, a real flop! Real here and not, hot, sexy science, why, hec, we loves it.]


Just liek your personal belief that there was ever a 'spiritual'.
[Yes, belief is belief. Why don't you crawl out from under you mother science's dress, and admit yours? Or is it so disgusting, you know the reaction it will get?]


Same goes to you, with your 'spiritual'.
[If you can't prove it, then, excellent! Enjoy your PO belief, and wild dark dreams of some imagined, unprovable, Godless, physical only, decay and death filled past!]


Not a single one of which has ever been verified.
[By a single one like you!]


And who completely disagree with you regarding religion.
[ Good. I'm not into religion, just faith in God, and the bible, and tha God of love, and His only begotten Son]


Not a single one exists. We do not - and cannot - know where, if anywhere, they went.
[Too bad, I can. Just look for the simolarities in thousands of case studies of people even from different religions, and backgrounds, and countries. No, I guess you're right. You can't know]


A resurrection from the dead CLAIMED to have been witnessed by unknown writers two thousand years ago.
[Not unknown to me. Apostles, desciples, and holy men and women of God, who did miracles, and gave their lives trying to tell evreyone they could. Martyrs, whose testimony was so important, they gave their lives to prove it. All documented in the world's most well kept document, the holy scriptures!]


Just like you with your belief that there is/was a spiritual world.
[Don't make it sound like it is something only I believe in. Most people on earth do know there is a spiritual dimension]

.

Hey electric, your posts get more shallow each time here, sounds like you ran out of steam.

 

[dad]

You're not advanced enough to do this, either, but that hasn't stopped you from making this up.
[Actually, once you shed the limitations of the box, and look at the bible, we become somewhat qualified. Infinitely more so than those bound to the box]



Except they ignore the possibilty that those people might not have it wrong...
[Once we have met the Author of the book, and come to know Him, whom to know, is to love, that He could be wrong does not possibly enter the equation. It becomes a known Quanity!]

.

 

[dad]

Well, dad, you certainly do think outside the box. Now, tell us how you intend to develop this new field of spiritual science. I propose that the first test we do on it is with a levitation experiment. What do you think?

It already is developed. It is what they learn, if interested, in heaven now, as we speak! The only way we can get even a pre taste of it in this sad ol physical only world here now, is to humbly seek Him, look to His word, and see what bits we can learn of it. Taking some attitude of, well, if this science 'wins me a lottery, wipes my unmentionable for me, lifts me up to a roof top, and helps me sell lots of vacuum cleaners, only then, will I descend from my little throne, and consider it--won't get one very far.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Ok, longs as it isn't your 'weirdocrapobeliefinanythingbutGodo' usual stuff!

There is no 'weirdocrapobeliefinanythingbutGodo' involved in or associated with science. That is your strawman.

The so called stuff, based on disbelief in God, and belief only in some alwayswashere physical only, yes, a real flop! Real here and not, hot, sexy science, why, hec, we loves it.

No science is based on disbelief in god. That's another one of your strawmen.

Yes, belief is belief. Why don't you crawl out from under you mother science's dress, and admit yours? Or is it so disgusting, you know the reaction it will get?

Science isn't my mother. There's nothing disgusting about either my mother or science. What are you talking about?

If you can't prove it, then, excellent! Enjoy your PO belief, and wild dark dreams of some imagined, unprovable, Godless, physical only, decay and death filled past!

Nice little rant. You grow more and more incoherent.

By a single one like you!

By anybody.

Good. I'm not into religion, just faith in God, and the bible, and tha God of love, and His only begotten Son

You are completely into religion. You even want to abandon science when it conflicts with your religion.

Too bad, I can. Just look for the simolarities in thousands of case studies of people even from different religions, and backgrounds, and countries. No, I guess you're right. You can't know

No, you can't. Nobody can.

Not unknown to me. Apostles, desciples, and holy men and women of God, who did miracles, and gave their lives trying to tell evreyone they could. Martyrs, whose testimony was so important, they gave their lives to prove it. All documented in the world's most well kept document, the holy scriptures!

Yes, unknown to you. Neitehr you nor anyone else knows who wrote the gospels.

Don't make it sound like it is something only I believe in. Most people on earth do know there is a spiritual dimension

It IS something you believe in. The fact that most people on earth believe there is a spiritual is no evidence that that belief is correct. Particularly since most of them would wildly disagree with you about it.

Hey electric, your posts get more shallow each time here, sounds like you ran out of steam.

Nice little ad hominem, to hide (yet again) the fact that despite repeated requests, you haven't come up with a single tangible thing about your 'spiriscience'. It's STILL just 'science except where it conflicts with MY beliefs, then we abandon science because I say so."

 

[dad]

[/color]
There is no 'weirdocrapobeliefinanythingbutGodo' involved in or associated with science. [ Who said anything about science? Come on out, and talk like a man]


Nice little ad hominem, to hide (yet again) the fact that despite repeated requests, you haven't come up with a single tangible thing about your 'spiriscience'. It's STILL just 'science except where it conflicts with MY beliefs, then we abandon science because I say so."

Now, would you like some tangible thing about some things about the spititual? Shows how much you retain, of what is going on here. Tell you what, bring me a ghost, dress it up, and I'll tell you if it's real. We'll try to tickle it, pickle it and put it in a test tube.

 

[Valkhorn]

Now, would you like some tangible thing about some things about the spititual? Shows how much you retain, of what is going on here. Tell you what, bring me a ghost, dress it up, and I'll tell you if it's real. We'll try to tickle it, pickle it and put it in a test tube.

Let me get this straight:

• You claim ghosts and spirits are real
• Someone claims you cannot measure them
• You claim that you can measure them when thinking outside of some 'box'
• Then someone asks for tangible evidence of spooky ghosts
• And you convieniently say that you can't measure it?

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Who said anything about science? Come on out, and talk like a man

We both did. It's what we've been talking about for this entire thread. Have you forgotten?

Now, would you like some tangible thing about some things about the spititual?

I, and others of this thread, have been begging you to provide some tangible thing about some things in the spiritual. You said you could; you haven't. Despite repeated requests.

Shows how much you retain, of what is going on here.

Yes. I retain it well. I recall all of your prevarications and evasions.

Tell you what, bring me a ghost, dress it up, and I'll tell you if it's real. We'll try to tickle it, pickle it and put it in a test tube.

If that's the best way. YOU are the one who said the spiritual was repeatedly testable - you have yet to come up with a single repeatable test. Now you have the audacity to act as if we are asking for something unreasonable, when all we are asking for is what YOU said you could provide.

But, of course, you can't provide it...or you would have. Still more proof that your 'spiriscience' is just science with exemptions for anything that contradicts your religious beliefs.

 

[Nathan Poe]

1: How long did it take? [My opinion so far id that it took from the fall, to the days of Peleg]

Well, it's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. Just as it's your opinion that this split happened at all.

2: Why was it a gradual and not instantaneous process? [You would have to know something of the spiritual world to answer that]

So you don't know. How would you go abhout finding out?

3: What happened to the planet while the split was occurring? If pre-split and post-split science follow different rules, then how did the physical and spiritual behave during the split itself? [ With the spiritual being a part of the fabric of our universe, as well as physical. God still talked, and walked with men (not that He doesn't still get through somewhat)

"Get through?" You make it sound like it's more difficult for God to interact with the physical-only universe. Surely you're not putting limits on God's powers?

Lifespans beings some ten times longer, gravity being affected, decay process changed, light of a spiritual nature that was not limited in speed, and much more.

So basically, whatever it takes to make a literal Bible true. Pretty darn convenient, this "merge" of yours. Explains everything by explaining nothing.

The laws of the universe themselves were not at all the same as physical only laws now are alone.]

[/QUOTE]
You could save yourself a lot of time and effort by just saying "Goddidit" like all the other YECs.

And of course, the question on everyone's mind:

4: If the split was gradual, then what about your alleged merge?
[I think that there may well be a transition phase during the millenium. Some scriptures of this time seem to indicate some changes. So this is a thousand year period. At the end of this we have the eternal new heavens and earth, and New Jerusalem comuing down to earth forever]

From what I've heard, "forever" isn't part of the plan after Christ's thousand-year reign -- at least not on this Earth.

The problem is that the Bible only mentions a couple of specific people by name; you're assuming that their ages were the norm. They may have very well been the exception.
[Whoa! No, more than a couple, everyone just about who was mentioned at all, it was very much the norm]

But you're assuming that everyone mentioned in the Bible was everyone who lived on Earth. Adam, Moses, Methuselah, and the lineage to Abraham seems about it -- In short, all those who already, knowingly or not, had a special relationship with God. What about the others?

Jesus is going to have his hands full if the merge causes the laws of physics to go loopy during "the transition."
[Loopy? No more loopy than in the pre flood days. Believers who are saved, during this time, will not be here on earth in mortal bodies any more, but with the Lord, in His city already. The transition is only for the world, we will already be living in the spiritual]

Which part of your science are you pulling this out of?

 

[AirPo]

It does take some adjusting getting your head around the fact that there was a merged universe, doesn't it.

Not at all, I get the gist of your little story just fine. It's even easy to understand that you actually believe it's true. Your emotionally invested after all. The point is that just making things up is not science.

Yes, with God, indeed, literally, all things are possible, He is really Almighty.

Which is why your god is impossible.

 

[Freodin]

The laws of the universe themselves were not at all the same as physical only laws now are alone.

That is the point.

For one thing, it destroyes the "the universe is fine-tuned for human life" argument. That is a yec-internal problem, dad does not have to be bothered with it...

But the problem that remains is: the laws are different - in what way?

You have to consider that you cannot just take one "law" of physical science, and change it - they are all interconnected. So if you want to change one laws, you have to change them all.

But in what ways where they different? And here the real, big, bad problem of dad´s ad-hoc spiritual science shows: He does not know how they were different. All that he can say is that they were so different that they allowed for all kind of wierd (of course, physical-only-wierd ) things, like million tons of water (liquid!) hanging around in orbit and trees, mountains and humans growing in seconds to unknown heights - but normal (physical-only-normal ) enough to allow for "life" to exist and be recognizable as "human".

In which way this "spiritual science" is different from magical handwaving is beyond me.

 

[dad]

That is the point.

For one thing, it destroyes the "the universe is fine-tuned for human life" argument. That is a yec-internal problem, dad does not have to be bothered with it...
[ No, not at all! When He left us in a physical only, it was tuned for us. The wonderful thing is, so will the merged one be!]

But the problem that remains is: the laws are different - in what way?
[Every way. To understand this in detail, you would have to also understand the spiritual, and compare the differences. I don't think you can, or do?]

You have to consider that you cannot just take one "law" of physical science, and change it - they are all interconnected. So if you want to change one laws, you have to change them all.
[Of course, the very fabric of the universe, no small deal, God, the spiritual world, and the fantastic, wonderful merge!]

But in what ways where they different? And here the real, big, bad problem of dad´s ad-hoc spiritual science shows: He does not know how they were different. [No. You do not know. We believers have somesmall idea] All that he can say is that they were so different that they allowed for all kind of wierd (of course, physical-only-wierd ) things, like million tons of water (liquid!) hanging around in orbit and trees, mountains and humans growing in seconds to unknown heights - [?? Where did a human grow in seconds? Or a mountain? If the continets slid apart, I could see some ranges being piled up, and formed quickly, yes. ]but normal (physical-only-normal ) enough to allow for "life" to exist and be recognizable as "human".
[Of course the merged is much like the physical. Just as Jesus' body was much like before He ressurected, but also very different. He could still eat, and touch, and talk, and many things, but He also had spiritual qualities. Think of it more as gaining something wonderful, than losing our humanity.]

In which way this "spiritual science" is different from magical handwaving is beyond me.
[Good choice of words. Beyond you. But not beyond men, if they are believers, with His help]

.

 

[enlightenment]

It already is developed. It is what they learn, if interested, in heaven now, as we speak! The only way we can get even a pre taste of it in this sad ol physical only world here now, is to humbly seek Him, look to His word, and see what bits we can learn of it.

If this world is only physical (meaning that the spiritual is not accessible to us), then there cannot be a spiritual science. Science is something you can perceive and test and manipulate.

Taking some attitude of, well, if this science 'wins me a lottery, wipes my unmentionable for me, lifts me up to a roof top, and helps me sell lots of vacuum cleaners, only then, will I descend from my little throne, and consider it--won't get one very far.

Well, amen, dad...and hallalujah. That makes no sense, and you completely failed to answer my question. Please try again.

 

[dad]

If this world is only physical (meaning that the spiritual is not accessible to us), then there cannot be a spiritual science. Science is something you can perceive and test and manipulate.



Well, amen, dad...and hallalujah. That makes no sense, and you completely failed to answer my question. Please try again.

A levitation experiment? This is to prove God? Well, Jesus levitated up into the sky. There you go, glad thas all you needed.

Now as far as spiritual science in heaven, no, it is not accessible to you. But there are bits we have access to. Differences between the two, for one thing, some properties of the spititual, and the merged for another. A history of the world and universe for another. Lists of local interferances, called miracles for another. Properties of pre physical only light for another. Yes, we do have some real good clues, and enough to study, that will blow the lid off box science!

 

[Electric Sceptic]

A levitation experiment? This is to prove God? Well, Jesus levitated up into the sky. There you go, glad thas all you needed.

Now as far as spiritual science in heaven, no, it is not accessible to you. But there are bits we have access to. Differences between the two, for one thing, some properties of the spititual, and the merged for another. A history of the world and universe for another. Lists of local interferances, called miracles for another. Properties of pre physical only light for another. Yes, we do have some real good clues, and enough to study, that will blow the lid off box science!

STILL waiting for any of dad's supposed 'tests' of spiriscience that he bragged exist...

 

[dad]

STILL waiting for any of dad's supposed 'tests' of spiriscience that he bragged exist...

God can be tested. He works. Laws of the spirit, etc. I gave you a test, now, don't try to slink out of your homework. I asked you to test how men could live forever. This is a basic trait of spiritual beings. Now, can you give us the results of your tests? I have lots more lined up, awaiting your ability to do the easy, basic test here.
Now, if you say you just can't do it, why would you be chompin at the bit, pretending God ought to 'bring em on'?! The issue here is your ineptness, not whether the spiritual exists. Many scientific betters of yours have already admitted this. It does exist, so your empty negative pretense at bravado, merely highlights the contours of your physical only prison.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

God can be tested. He works. Laws of the spirit, etc. I gave you a test, now, don't try to slink out of your homework. I asked you to test how men could live forever. This is a basic trait of spiritual beings. Now, can you give us the results of your tests? I have lots more lined up, awaiting your ability to do the easy, basic test here.
Now, if you say you just can't do it, why would you be chompin at the bit, pretending God ought to 'bring em on'?! The issue here is your ineptness, not whether the spiritual exists. Many scientific betters of yours have already admitted this. It does exist, so your empty negative pretense at bravado, merely highlights the contours of your physical only prison.

You have not given any test. You have claimed that the spiritual is testable; despite repeated requests, you have not given a single example of such a test. Perhaps if you ever get out of your box you will be able to actually support your claims or, at least, admit they are false.

Please also note that I have nowhere claimed that the spiritual does not exist; this is merely yet another of your strawmen.

 

[dad]

You have not given any test. You have claimed that the spiritual is testable; despite repeated requests, you have not given a single example of such a test. Perhaps if you ever get out of your box you will be able to actually support your claims or, at least, admit they are false.

Please also note that I have nowhere claimed that the spiritual does not exist; this is merely yet another of your strawmen.

Sorry you are stumped at not being able to do a simple thing like test the basic trait of the spiritual world! There is only so much I can give you, as an unbeliever, because you do not accept things from the bible, or miracles, Jesus spiritual laws, etc. Your abilities are so low, and box bound, that it seems you have made the choices to continue looking only to physical science, and embracing affectionately the so called aspects of it, that try to carry box logic into an unboxed past! Enjoy your faith, cause thats all it is. A faith that renders you forever incapable in this life of progressing to understand even a little more. While many things can be tested, you have positioned yourself so low, as to be unable be shown anything out of the box at all. But don't think that all men are so bound, they aren't.
To summerize, physical only science cannot be applied to Adam's world, because it was together with the spiritual, as evidenced by many goins on then that would be impossible only in our physical only.
My present feeling is that the split started at the fall, and was complete in the days of Peleg, which covers the flood period as well. Then, our physical only universe we now are in. This will start to transition to a combined or merged universe soon, at the start of the millenium. It will be complete, and merged at the end of this period, forever to be merged, and never again will there be a physical only universe!
Nothing in the bible or real science can begin to dispute this! It explains many former mysteries, like what did they eat after the flood, where did the waters go, and come from, tree rings, radioactive decay, light speed, long lifespans, and a host of other juicy things as well!
Oh, electric, if you have some disputes, try biting your tongue on the vitrolic rhetoric, and empty so called science flag waving, and provide some bible or science evidence these things are not so! Sorry you are unable personally, to test it seems even the basics of a spiritual world, but, as your post said, you never claimed that the spiritual does not exist!!!
I'm away this week. Ta

 

[Nathan Poe]

Sorry you are stumped at not being able to do a simple thing like test the basic trait of the spiritual world! There is only so much I can give you, as an unbeliever, because you do not accept things from the bible, or miracles, Jesus spiritual laws, etc.

Kindly give one example of Jesus' spiritual laws

Your abilities are so low, and box bound, that it seems you have made the choices to continue looking only to physical science, and embracing affectionately the so called aspects of it, that try to carry box logic into an unboxed past!

Provide a means of testing the "unboxed" and we'll listen.

Enjoy your faith, cause thats all it is. A faith that renders you forever incapable in this life of progressing to understand even a little more.

You have offered nothing. Forgive us if we do not embrace it.

While many things can be tested, you have positioned yourself so low, as to be unable be shown anything out of the box at all. But don't think that all men are so bound, they aren't.

And you have placed yourself so high, methinks the air is getting rather thin...

To summerize, physical only science cannot be applied to Adam's world, because it was together with the spiritual, as evidenced by many goins on then that would be impossible only in our physical only.

To summarize, you have made this all up from whole cloth.

My present feeling is that the split started at the fall, and was complete in the days of Peleg, which covers the flood period as well. Then, our physical only universe we now are in. This will start to transition to a combined or merged universe soon, at the start of the millenium. It will be complete, and merged at the end of this period, forever to be merged, and never again will there be a physical only universe!

Your present feeling, lacking any objective means to test or confirm it, is about as useful as a three-dollar bill.

[QUOTE}Nothing in the bible or real science can begin to dispute this! It explains many former mysteries, like what did they eat after the flood, where did the waters go, and come from, tree rings, radioactive decay, light speed, long lifespans, and a host of other juicy things as well! [/QUOTE]

"Real" Science? You mean this nonsense you've been making up?

Oh, electric, if you have some disputes, try biting your tongue on the vitrolic rhetoric, and empty so called science flag waving, and provide some bible or science evidence these things are not so! Sorry you are unable personally, to test it seems even the basics of a spiritual world, but, as your post said, you never claimed that the spiritual does not exist!!!

And still you have nothing.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

Sorry you are stumped at not being able to do a simple thing like test the basic trait of the spiritual world!

I don't know if I'm 'stumped' or not, since you haven't given a single test of any trait of the spiritual world. You keep claiming these tests exist, but you can't provide any.

There is only so much I can give you, as an unbeliever, because you do not accept things from the bible, or miracles, Jesus spiritual laws, etc.

"Only so much" appears to be "zero".

Your abilities are so low, and box bound, that it seems you have made the choices to continue looking only to physical science, and embracing affectionately the so called aspects of it, that try to carry box logic into an unboxed past!

Nice dodge to avoid - as you have now spent two different threads doing - supplying any support for your claims.

Enjoy your faith, cause thats all it is. A faith that renders you forever incapable in this life of progressing to understand even a little more.

I have no faith.

While many things can be tested, you have positioned yourself so low, as to be unable be shown anything out of the box at all.

That's nice. As soon as you provide any of these tests you claim exist, then perhaps we'll see. However, since you apparently can't, all of your claims about the testability of the spiritual are dubious at best.

But don't think that all men are so bound, they aren't.

So far all you've demonstrated to me about 'all men' is that some of them like to make claims they can't support.

To summerize, physical only science cannot be applied to Adam's world, because it was together with the spiritual, as evidenced by many goins on then that would be impossible only in our physical only.

Yeah, yeah, heard all that before. Claims without any supporting evidence are useless.

Oh, electric, if you have some disputes, try biting your tongue on the vitrolic rhetoric, and empty so called science flag waving, and provide some bible or science evidence these things are not so!

YOU are the one who makes claims; it is up to YOU to provide support for them, not up to others to disprove them.

Sorry you are unable personally, to test it seems even the basics of a spiritual world, but, as your post said, you never claimed that the spiritual does not exist!!!

So far the only reason I'm unable personally to test even the basics of the spiritual world is because the person who keeps talking about the repeatable tests of the spiritual won't reveal what they are. He's been claiming they exist for over a week now, but he won't provide any of them. Makes you suspect he's just full of it, wouldn't you say?

 

[enlightenment]

A levitation experiment? This is to prove God?

No, it is to prove that something of a supernatural nature exists.

Well, Jesus levitated up into the sky. There you go, glad thas all you needed.

I think I will not accept it just because you said it, especially since you called this "spiritual science." In science, people don't just say things and expect their colleagues to just believe them without the lab test reports or mathematical proof or readouts, etc.

Now, if you called it "spirituality" and left out the science part, then yes you can make all the unsupported claims you want. But science is about
1) Observation
2) Testing
3) Verifying
4) Concluding

Now as far as spiritual science in heaven, no, it is not accessible to you.

Science is something that is accessible. See the four criteria above.

But there are bits we have access to. Differences between the two, for one thing, some properties of the spititual, and the merged for another. A history of the world and universe for another. Lists of local interferances, called miracles for another.

Miracles are physical occurrences incorrectly perceived by ignorant people (and those saturated by a cult or religion) to be supernatural events. Miracles can be observed, but so far they have not been tested and have not been repeated under controlled circumstances to observe whether or not repeated patterns emerge (that I know of).

Properties of pre physical only light for another. Yes, we do have some real good clues, and enough to study, that will blow the lid off box science!

Your "out of the box" spiritual "science" is simply in-the-box theism dressed up to look like something it is not.