spiritual science

dad · Jul 17, 2005

Nathan Poe said:
So... when is the merge scheduled to occur?

Well, when the new heavens are revealed that will be the complete eternal ones. That time is somewhere around near the end of the millenium (1000 yr reign of Christ on earth after He returns). We don't know when that will be, but all indications are we now are in the final generation, so the millenium will follow the return of Christ, soon. But there may be a little possible kink here.

If we remember, if I am right, the split happened in the days of Peleg. But it seems it was started at the fall. Seems like, at least as far as I can see, there was a sort of transition period! After the fall, men still lived for near a thousand years. By Pelegs day, it was down to about 200 and some odd years. After that, (the split, if I am correct) it settled down pretty quick to the present spans. So, I suspect that maybe, the millenium might be a sort odf transition, up towards the complete merge, at the end of the millenium?!
Oh this spirysics stuff!

Nathan Poe · Jul 17, 2005

dad said:
Well, when the new heavens are revealed that will be the complete eternal ones. That time is somewhere around near the end of the millenium (1000 yr reign of Christ on earth after He returns). We don't know when that will be, but all indications are we now are in the final generation, so the millenium will follow the return of Christ, soon. But there may be a little possible kink here.

A kink besides the fact that every generation of Christians since Christ believed they were the last one? Do tell...

If we remember, if I am right, the split happened in the days of Peleg.

We remember no such thing. This is your hypothesis, not history.

But it seems it was started at the fall. Seems like, at least as far as I can see, there was a sort of transition period!

So... the split didn't happen all at once? You're saying it was a gradual process?

Well then, this raises a few interesting questions:
1: How long did it take?
2: Why was it a gradual and not instantaneous process?
3: What happened to the planet while the split was occurring? If pre-split and post-split science follow different rules, then how did the physical and spiritual behave during the split itself?

And of course, the question on everyone's mind:

4: If the split was gradual, then what about your alleged merge?

After the fall, men still lived for near a thousand years. By Pelegs day, it was down to about 200 and some odd years.

The problem is that the Bible only mentions a couple of specific people by name; you're assuming that their ages were the norm. They may have very well been the exception.

After that, (the split, if I am correct) it settled down pretty quick to the present spans. So, I suspect that maybe, the millenium might be a sort odf transition, up towards the complete merge, at the end of the millenium?!

Jesus is going to have his hands full if the merge causes the laws of physics to go loopy during "the transition."

Oh this spirysics stuff!

Indeed, science is much more fun when you make it up.

Electric Sceptic · Jul 17, 2005

dad said:
On the contrary. they have no qualms with so called science. So far at least.

Of course they have no qualms with science. It's your silly spiriscience that they recognise as nonsense.

dad said:
I am qualified to say what it ain't!

No, you're not, as you amply demonstrate.

dad said:
I have already explained that granny refers to the first lifeform. You will have to deal with this, I will not repent

Then you shoudl use correct terminology instead of childish nicknames.

And you avoid my pointing out of the fact that science does not say that the bible is not true; this is yet another of your strawmen.

dad said:
Nice try. I simply want those of the physical only in the past and future faith to stick to real science, and save their wet evo dreams for some paying audience who might swallow

Yes, we know what you want. You want to throw away science when it ssuits you.

dad said:
Thats easy to say. But I do have an opinion!

Good for you. It's possible to have an opinion about anything at all. But an opinion you aren't qualified to have is completely worthless.

dad said:
In other words, science deals with the here and now, we know this. When it makes a leap of faith into the time when the merge is here, it leaps on it's own, and this is called science, falsely so called.]

Yet again you demonstrate that you know absolutely nothing about science. This is precisely why you're not qualified to even have an opinion on the subject.

dad · Jul 17, 2005

Electric Sceptic said:
[/color]
Of course they have no qualms with science. It's your silly spiriscience that they recognise as nonsense.
[I didn't say science. I said science falsely so called. You say some educators have problems with my spiriscience? And that they recognize it? My, you are a wealth of information.]

No, you're not, as you amply demonstrate.
[No, you are just full of it. Otherwise, try a demononstration on for size, and say something other than vague insults!]

Then you shoudl use correct terminology instead of childish nicknames.[Try and make me]

And you avoid my pointing out of the fact that science does not say that the bible is not true; this is yet another of your strawmen.
[It's too gutless. It says it like I pointed out]

Yes, we know what you want. You want to throw away science when it ssuits you.
[No, thats your silly rendition of what I want, and what was said]

Good for you. It's possible to have an opinion about anything at all. But an opinion you aren't qualified to have is completely worthless.
[Then so called science and it's opinion that the past and future must be relegated to what it can see now is completely worthless]

In other words, science deals with the here and now, we know this. When it makes a leap of faith into the time when the merge is here, it leaps on it's own, and this is called science, falsely so called.]

.

ebia · Jul 17, 2005

dad said:
.

Then you shoudl use correct terminology instead of childish nicknames

Click to expand...

.[Try and make me]

At least you admit it. You've made the first step.

meebs · Jul 17, 2005

dad, there is no credible evidence that spiriscience occured in the first place.

I would think that after about several thousand years there would have been some remaining evidence of a different science intergrated with physical science. Perhaps in a body remains, perhaps in rocks, and still in the ice caps themselves (you say they didnt exist till after the flood - but the flood would have been one example of spiriscience, maybe something about the water locked in the ice caps after the flood would contain evidence?)

Sorry i find it hard to think like a YEC.

Electric Sceptic · Jul 17, 2005

dad said:
I didn't say science. I said science falsely so called.

I know what you said. What you, in your ignorance, call 'science falsely so called' is, in fact, science. You have produced nothing whatsoever to refute this fact.

dad said:
You say some educators have problems with my spiriscience? And that they recognize it? My, you are a wealth of information.

Of course they recognise it. Proponents like yourself have made their efforts to corrupt science and education known around the world.

dad said:
No, you are just full of it. Otherwise, try a demononstration on for size, and say something other than vague insults!

I don't have to demonstrate anything. Your posts repeatedly demonstrate my claims quite well enough.

Nor have I anywhere insulted you.

dad said:
Try and make me

Make you? Why would I try to do that? I merely point out that your silly little childish names will cause confusion because most people try to use the correct terms; if you use silly little nicknames people will tend not to know what you're talking about.

dad said:
And you avoid my pointing out of the fact that science does not say that the bible is not true; this is yet another of your strawmen.
[It's too gutless. It says it like I pointed out

This doesn't even make sense. First, it's "too gutless" to do something that it doesn't try to do but you would like to claim it does; then you reverse yourself and claim that it does do it.

It doesn't. Science nowhere says that the bible is not true.

dad said:
No, thats your silly rendition of what I want, and what was said

No, it is precisely what you have repeatedly urged.

dad said:
Then so called science and it's opinion that the past and future must be relegated to what it can see now is completely worthless

You are not qualified to have an opinion on science, since you know nothing about it; your opinion is therefore worthless.

dad said:
In other words, science deals with the here and now, we know this. When it makes a leap of faith into the time when the merge is here, it leaps on it's own, and this is called science, falsely so called.

You are not qualified to have an opinion on science, since you know nothing about it; your opinion is therefore worthless.

Freodin · Jul 17, 2005

falsly so called science... yes of course.

Well, what dad so gradiously calls "spiritual science" is nothing but the old "everything the Bible say is literally true" and the explanation that this "out of the box science" offers is "Goddidit".

Move on, people - nothing new to see here.

Valkhorn · Jul 17, 2005

And you avoid my pointing out of the fact that science does not say that the bible is not true; this is yet another of your strawmen.

Click to expand...

Are you deaf and blind? It's been pointed out that a literal interpretation of Genesis HAS been proven scientifically inaccurate on this forum a million times.

You can even research it.

And no, don't you mouth off to me about how this is all a lie, or I'm just not backing my fanny up into your pile of ghosts and goblins which you can't even get through your cranial plate that ghosts, spooks, and gods do not fall into the realm of science.

You're in serious denial, dad. Thank the goodness that's left in this world that most people here see through the tripe to see what you really are - a creationist who can't even fathom that there's a chance that you might be wrong, and is unwilling to accept any evidence contrary to your opinion, and is willing to MAKE UP any bogus statements just so you can sleep better at night.

Nymphalidae · Jul 17, 2005

dad said:
Well, when the new heavens are revealed that will be the complete eternal ones. That time is somewhere around near the end of the millenium (1000 yr reign of Christ on earth after He returns). We don't know when that will be, but all indications are we now are in the final generation, so the millenium will follow the return of Christ, soon. But there may be a little possible kink here.

If we remember, if I am right, the split happened in the days of Peleg. But it seems it was started at the fall. Seems like, at least as far as I can see, there was a sort of transition period! After the fall, men still lived for near a thousand years. By Pelegs day, it was down to about 200 and some odd years. After that, (the split, if I am correct) it settled down pretty quick to the present spans. So, I suspect that maybe, the millenium might be a sort odf transition, up towards the complete merge, at the end of the millenium?!
Oh this spirysics stuff!

Moooooooooooooon!

dad · Jul 17, 2005

Are you deaf and blind? It's been pointed out that a literal interpretation of Genesis HAS been proven scientifically inaccurate on this forum a million times.

You can even research it.

Never once, never even close! What you are refering to is how trying to apply the present physical only was found not to apply to a time when there was both spiritual and physical at work together. Trying to misapply these 2 things is science falesely so called!!!

And no, don't you mouth off to me about how this is all a lie, or I'm just not backing my fanny up into your pile of ghosts and goblins which you can't even get through your cranial plate that ghosts, spooks, and gods do not fall into the realm of science.

Ha. Good. You sound somewhat peturbed. Physical science is no lie, it is motherhood and apple pie stuff, and it is mine, o mine, as well as yours. Totally. Don't come crying to me that you can't find any spirit world now, and think everything outside the box doesn't exist! Your personal belief that there always was, and will be only this physical only is not provable, of course, so let's not pretend it is. If you have any proof there was only always just the physical only, speak now, or forever hold you beliefs!

You're in serious denial, dad. Thank the goodness that's left in this world that most people here see through the tripe to see what you really are - a creationist who can't even fathom that there's a chance that you might be wrong, and is unwilling to accept any evidence contrary to your opinion, and is willing to MAKE UP any bogus statements just so you can sleep better at night.

If you think I'm wrong, prove it. I offer the weight of human experience, untold billions of miracles, many religions, who are aware of a spiritual world in one form or another, doctor supervised case studies of cliniclly decared dead people, who went there and back, a witnessed ressurection from the dead, and all the prophesies, and evidences of the holy bible, as weight for my veiws, and admitted beliefs. What have you got to say there is no spiritual world, or that it was not merged in our past? I'll tell you, belief. Nothing else. And don't try to hide under real known, physical based science's dress here either! That only applies to a physical only present!!

dad · Jul 17, 2005

Freodin said:
falsly so called science... yes of course.

Well, what dad so gradiously calls "spiritual science" is nothing but the old "everything the Bible say is literally true" and the explanation that this "out of the box science" offers is "Goddidit".

Move on, people - nothing new to see here.

Actually, I never offered spiritual science persay. I just said it exists, and that men could learn a little of it even here, if they wanted. It does exist, and will exist, in heaven. The universe, both physical and spiritual is being, and will be studied. Even here, we could learn many clues from the bible, as it does go into some detail about bits of it, and how the spiritual works, some known properties of spiritual beings, heaven, etc.

dad · Jul 17, 2005

Nathan Poe said:
A kink besides the fact that every generation of Christians since Christ believed they were the last one? Do tell...[No, this wasn't the kink. That was just me trying to quickly give you the timetable you asked for. The kink was the transition phases.]

So... the split didn't happen all at once? You're saying it was a gradual process?

Well then, this raises a few interesting questions:
1: How long did it take? [My opinion so far id that it took from the fall, to the days of Peleg]
2: Why was it a gradual and not instantaneous process? [You would have to know something of the spiritual world to answer that]
3: What happened to the planet while the split was occurring? If pre-split and post-split science follow different rules, then how did the physical and spiritual behave during the split itself? [ With the spiritual being a part of the fabric of our universe, as well as physical. God still talked, and walked with men (not that He doesn't still get through somewhat) Lifespans beings some ten times longer, gravity being affected, decay process changed, light of a spiritual nature that was not limited in speed, and much more. The laws of the universe themselves were not at all the same as physical only laws now are alone.]

And of course, the question on everyone's mind:

4: If the split was gradual, then what about your alleged merge?
[I think that there may well be a transition phase during the millenium. Some scriptures of this time seem to indicate some changes. So this is a thousand year period. At the end of this we have the eternal new heavens and earth, and New Jerusalem comuing down to earth forever]

The problem is that the Bible only mentions a couple of specific people by name; you're assuming that their ages were the norm. They may have very well been the exception.
[Whoa! No, more than a couple, everyone just about who was mentioned at all, it was very much the norm]

Jesus is going to have his hands full if the merge causes the laws of physics to go loopy during "the transition."
[Loopy? No more loopy than in the pre flood days. Believers who are saved, during this time, will not be here on earth in mortal bodies any more, but with the Lord, in His city already. The transition is only for the world, we will already be living in the spiritual]

.

dad · Jul 17, 2005

ebia said:
At least you admit it. You've made the first step.

Pr 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pr 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Electric Sceptic · Jul 17, 2005

dad said:
Never once, never even close! What you are refering to is how trying to apply the present physical only was found not to apply to a time when there was both spiritual and physical at work together. Trying to misapply these 2 things is science falesely so called!!!

Nope, it's science, rather than your 'spiriscience'.

dad said:
Physical science is no lie, it is motherhood and apple pie stuff, and it is mine, o mine, as well as yours. Totally.

Umm...you said it was a 'total flop'.

dad said:
Your personal belief that there always was, and will be only this physical only is not provable, of course, so let's not pretend it is.

Just liek your personal belief that there was ever a 'spiritual'.

dad said:
If you have any proof there was only always just the physical only, speak now, or forever hold you beliefs!

Same goes to you, with your 'spiritual'.

dad said:
If you think I'm wrong, prove it.

Nice try. It's up to YOU to prove it.

dad said:
I offer the weight of human experience, untold billions of miracles

Not a single one of which has ever been verified.

dad said:
many religions, who are aware of a spiritual world in one form or another

And who completely disagree with you regarding religion.

dad said:
doctor supervised case studies of cliniclly decared dead people, who went there and back

Not a single one exists. We do not - and cannot - know where, if anywhere, they went.

dad said:
a witnessed ressurection from the dead

A resurrection from the dead CLAIMED to have been witnessed by unknown writers two thousand years ago.

dad said:
and all the prophesies, and evidences of the holy bible

Zero.

dad said:
as weight for my veiws, and admitted beliefs

Looks like you better try to actually get some evidence.

dad said:
What have you got to say there is no spiritual world, or that it was not merged in our past? I'll tell you, belief.

Just like you with your belief that there is/was a spiritual world.

dad said:
And don't try to hide under real known, physical based science's dress here either! That only applies to a physical only present!!

Oh, back to your personal belief that there was ever anything other than the 'physical only', which you can't evidence.

dad · Jul 17, 2005

jellybean said:
dad, there is no credible evidence that spiriscience occured in the first place.
[Now I'm a little confused with this term. I used a few words to try to describe a study of the spiritual, like spirysics. or spiritual science. This refererred to just that some study of the spiritual world. Now, I think you may be talking about the time in our past, (or future) when the physical and spiritual were together? If so this was what I call the merge. Then something happened, and it was seperated, or, as I usually refer to it, ---"Split".]

I would think that after about several thousand years there would have been some remaining evidence of a different science intergrated with physical science. Perhaps in a body remains, perhaps in rocks, and still in the ice caps themselves (you say they didnt exist till after the flood - but the flood would have been one example of spiriscience, maybe something about the water locked in the ice caps after the flood would contain evidence?)
[ The first step in knowing what to look for, is to understand how the spiritual works with the physical, and being able to detect this. So far, science is not advanced enough to do this, and even conciously limit themselves to only the physical!]

Sorry i find it hard to think like a YEC.

[Basically, all most yecs I have met really do, is believe in God, and the bible as the word of God, and try to see how people have it wrong in telling us that God di not really create the world, and stars in a week, some several thousand years ago, as we read plainly in the bible]

.

dad · Jul 17, 2005

Electric Sceptic said:
..

Nor have I anywhere insulted you.

You are not qualified to have an opinion on science, since you know nothing about it; your opinion is therefore worthless.

You are not qualified to have an opinion on science, since you know nothing about it; your opinion is therefore worthless.

.
OK. I guess I'll take it as a compliment. Your opinion, and faith in only the physical is also valued.

Nathan Poe · Jul 17, 2005

dad said:
The first step in knowing what to look for, is to understand how the spiritual works with the physical, and being able to detect this. So far, science is not advanced enough to do this, and even conciously limit themselves to only the physical!

You're not advanced enough to do this, either, but that hasn't stopped you from making this up.

Basically, all most yecs I have met really do, is believe in God, and the bible as the word of God, and try to see how people have it wrong in telling us that God di not really create the world, and stars in a week, some several thousand years ago, as we read plainly in the bible

Except they ignore the possibilty that those people might not have it wrong...

enlightenment · Jul 17, 2005

dad said:
Knowledge is not limited to physical. Science today generally is limited to the physical, but the bible indicates that more was at work in our past. Because of this, we can now understand that the flood, and garden, and all things the bible tells are true after all, and it was just a shortcoming in modern science logic mistakenly trying to be applied to a past that was not physical only.

Well, dad, you certainly do think outside the box. Now, tell us how you intend to develop this new field of spiritual science. I propose that the first test we do on it is with a levitation experiment. What do you think?

Electric Sceptic · Jul 17, 2005

dad said:
.
OK. I guess I'll take it as a compliment. Your opinion, and faith in only the physical is also valued.

I have no faith.

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