Spiritual experiences before and after being 'saved'.

[Hmm]

I just realized that I assumed that the voices you heard were internal, that is, in your mind. But perhaps you meant that you heard them externally?

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Fdevil-talkin

Your song is good. It gave me a sense of invading demonic voices and it's still going through my head. Thanks!

 

[YahuahSaves]

Firstly, I'd want to state two important things:

1) Christianity is a religion. Religion isn't a bad word, so we shouldn't try to separate Christianity from the term "religion"; but rather should recognize that real, true, and good religion can only be found in Jesus Christ.

2) Catholicism is Christianity. Just as Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy are Christianity. Just as Lutheranism, Anglicanism, Methodism, Baptistism(?), Presbyterianism, etc are all Christianity too. Roman Catholics are Christians. Christianity, as a religion, encompasses a diverse number of denominations and theological traditions that all descend, in some way or another, from the original religion of Jesus' apostles. Which is closest to that, and how one determines what is the most faithful form of Christianity is kind of the whole argument everyone has and why everyone goes to their church rather than to another church. But it is critical to understand that as long as we are confessing the same core faith (as expressed in the Nicene Creed) we are Christians.

Back to the topic at hand:

I've never experienced "voices", and so I lack an experiential perspective; but I am inclined to assume that this could be psychological rather than demonic in nature in most cases. Not all cases, but I think there is both spiritual and psychological harm that can come by assuming the demonic before eliminating the psychological as cause.

With that said, I do not want to tell anyone that their experience isn't real or true. And so am going to proceed on assumption that we are dealing with the demonic.

In the Lutheran tradition there is actually quite a bit on the subject. Martin Luther was rather quite vocal about his own spiritual, psychological, and emotional struggles as a Christian. And regularly addressed the devil's lying tongue in his writings. One of the most famous things he had to write on the subject is actually in his most famous hymn, "A Mighty Fortress is Our God", here is the third stanza:

"And though this world, with devils filled,
should threaten to undo us,
we will not fear, for God has willed
His truth to triumph through us.
The prince of darkness grim,
we tremble not for him;
his rage we can endure,
for lo! his doom is sure;
one little word shall fell him."

Later on Luther specifically addresses what "one little word" means here. When Luther wrote "one little word", he was really saying that the tiniest, simplest, word can strike the devil down. So Luther writes that the one little word is "liar" or "devil, you lie". Calling the devil a liar to his face knocks him on his behind, strikes him down, and leaves him powerless. Recall what St. James writes in his letter,

"Resist the devil and he will flee." (James 4:7).

Our faith is in Christ, who has defeated the devil. The devil has already lost. The devil has already been defeated. The devil was defeated at Calvary, the devil was defeated when Jesus walked out of that tomb alive. Jesus ascended and sits at the right hand of the Father, and the devil has already been struck down and defeated--we have no need to fear him. The devil's power has been reduced to ashes, because Christ is Victor.

So we can endure the rage of the devil, Christ is with us.

So when the devil comes with his pack of lies, when he shoves your sins back in your face, stand firm in Christ, abide in Jesus and His word, tell the devil "devil, you lie".

To quote Luther,

"So when the devil throws your sins in your face and declares that you deserve death and hell, tell him this: 'I admit that I deserve death and hell, what of it? For I know One who suffered and made satisfaction on my behalf. His name is Jesus Christ, Son of God, and where He is there I shall be also!'"

Or as my pastor said in a discussion just this last week, "The devil is a lame-o".

For in Christ we are more than conquerors.
In Christ we have victory over sin, death, hell, and the devil.
In Christ all of our sins have been washed away.
In Christ we have been pardoned, and all debts canceled.
In Christ the power of death has been destroyed, and we have life eternal with Him.
In Christ the lies of the devil are reduced to pitiful whimpers.
In Christ the rage of the devil is mocked, for his doom is certain.
In Christ all the powers may rage and scream, but He holds the keys, He is Lord.

Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again. That is the victory of our God.

-CryptoLutheran

Thanks for the input.. you are right that the devil has already been defeated. My Faith has been a gradual building up as I've learned more and more.

The statement about Christianity being a religion is why I decided to stop going to traditional church. This site is helpful to anyone newbie or not 'outside the camp' who wants to know how to follow Jesus without choosing a particular denomination: https://theschoolofchrist.org

 

[YahuahSaves]

I can sure relate to what you speak about - especially the suicidal tendencies, although all glory to God, as I've grown in Christ I feel these thoughts have dissipated. I'm not sure where on the sliding scale of such experiences one becomes what would be diagnosed as 'crazy'. Unfortunately, psychiatrists, who generally don't believe in the supernatural - and certainly don't take it into account in their practice - would probably diagnose you and I with some sort of label.

I think people like us are sensitive to such activity, like our 'receptors' are more attuned, for one reason or another. You mentioned 'opening a door' earlier, and I think that is a possibility, but as we are new creations in Christ, and we are transformed by the renewing of our minds, then He has the power to close them for us, if we remain in Him. I feel led to link to this article with a number of verses relating to God's transformational power. As we conform to His image, I believe these experiences that we have may diminish as we are more fully filled with, and walking in His Spirit.
But as I say, I treat it as a blessing today, in that through God's power I can see how He has authority over all. His Word is a refuge and also a weapon.

Your experience with the witch made my hair stand on end, and I praise God as I believe this shows you have been blessed with discernment. She obviously sensed the Holy Spirit with you, given her reaction. This was the Lord showing you something, and I believe that it's possibly similar with the other experiences you may have.

So maybe you, with God's help, will transform your experiences into something that will help bring you and others closer to Jesus. I pray you will continue to grow with strength in Christ.

God Bless Pipp@, and thanks also for your kind words.

Oh my goodness you don't know how much you have helped me and put my focus back on what God has been leading me through.. I thought discernment was something we had to do for ourselves, but I think, like with everything else, it's the leading of the holy spirit.

Other than hearing is voice or having a dream, God speaks to me through the atmosphere (I'm beginning to believe because I've still got deep-seated wrong beliefs about the bible, and I always avoid myself within in order to avoid my mind and emotions). My awakening experience started that way, and so did the experience when I moved here, and it set a fear in me that I was going crazy. But there's too much coincidence for me to be imagining it. My eyes get drawn to signs/advertisements and zoom in on words as I'm walking or driving around. One such word when this began last year was 'renew'. And the last episode I had I was in my car driving asking God what to do, please help me and I see 'now' 'enter' 'rest' on 3 different signs by the roadside in succession as I was driving. It's taken me a while to get it but you guys have reminded me, I don't have to struggle. If God started it, he will finish it, he will 'deliver' me from evil.

 

[Lost Witness]

Thanks for the input.. you are right that the devil has already been defeated. My Faith has been a gradual building up as I've learned more and more.

The statement about Christianity being a religion is why I decided to stop going to traditional church. This site is helpful to anyone newbie or not 'outside the ca

Oh my goodness you don't know how much you have helped me and put my focus back on what God has been leading me through.. I thought discernment was something we had to do for ourselves, but I think, like with everything else, it's the leading of the holy spirit.

Other than hearing is voice or having a dream, God speaks to me through the atmosphere (I'm beginning to believe because I've still got deep-seated wrong beliefs about the bible, and I always avoid myself within in order to avoid my mind and emotions). My awakening experience started that way, and so did the experience when I moved here, and it set a fear in me that I was going crazy. But there's too much coincidence for me to be imagining it. My eyes get drawn to signs/advertisements and zoom in on words as I'm walking or driving around. One such word when this began last year was 'renew'. And the last episode I had I was in my car driving asking God what to do, please help me and I see 'now' 'enter' 'rest' on 3 different signs by the roadside in succession as I was driving. It's taken me a while to get it but you guys have reminded me, I don't have to struggle. If God started it, he will finish it, he will 'deliver' me from evil.

Discernment is an amazing Gift from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lost Witness]

Does God speak this way?

 

[YahuahSaves]

Yeah, I feel the same way too!
1 Peter 5:9
Resist (the devil) stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world

I can't say I'm glad you do because I don't wish it on anybody..

This is the problem with the 'why me'? attitude isn't it? We can all feel like we're the only ones sometimes and spiritual experiences especially can be so isolating... personally I don't believe in mental illness by the world's standards but I do believe in wrong thinking patterns that develop into false beliefs, because this is what I'm being shown opened the door to the enemy... replacing the lie with the truth of Gods word is a process that doesn't happen overnight

 

[YahuahSaves]

I just realized that I assumed that the voices you heard were internal, that is, in your mind. But perhaps you meant that you heard them externally?

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Fdevil-talkin

It's been both.. for years externally, and is why I thought it was people around me. Once I knew otherwise it's been a slow undoing of believing I'm battling flesh and blood and reminding myself of the enemies tactics. Ephesians 6:12 helps.

I do have thoughts drop in out of nowhere sometimes but I'm getting better at discerning what's my voice and what's the enemies voice, I don't have trouble with Gods voice as some might question, because it's a knowing when it's him. Plus he never says things to me that the enemy would say, or my own natural thoughts even.. he's always direct and honest but not cruel or unkind. As an example, before being saved I was in a bad way, lived like a hermit pretty much, very angry, depressed and bitter. I went to make myself a coffee and for some reason all the emotions I had bubbling up, I was tired of life and I said outloud to myself: I am so unhappy! And immediately (what I now know was God) said 'you're not meant to be happy in sin'... I was like 'huh?' It was disconcerting at the time because I didn't like the bible or believe in that 'sinner' stuff at all lol

 

[ViaCrucis]

Thanks for the input.. you are right that the devil has already been defeated. My Faith has been a gradual building up as I've learned more and more.

The statement about Christianity being a religion is why I decided to stop going to traditional church. This site is helpful to anyone newbie or not 'outside the camp' who wants to know how to follow Jesus without choosing a particular denomination: https://theschoolofchrist.org

I get it, or I think I do. Though my experience is different. My experience of Christianity growing up was complicated. As a small child my family attended a non-denominational church that simply described itself as a "Bible church", until we were kicked out because of some ugly behind-the-scene church politics. We eventually discovered a Pentecostal church, a part of the Foursquare denomination. All the my education was at an independent fundamentalist Baptist school that was of the men should be clean shaven, you can't listen to certain kinds of music, and only the King James Version of the Bible is acceptable to read variety.

And the way I was raised was very much in the "Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship" line of thinking. As such twenty years ago you could still find me speaking very negatively of "religion".

My experience, however, is that my relationship with Christ grew stronger when I drew upon the resources of two thousand years of Christian history. I'm not going to sit here and tell you what church to go to. But I do want to encourage you to have an open mind about the experiences of many Christians who have found their lives blessed and enriched by "religion", not as a means of trying to make God happy; just the opposite. Because for us we've learned that religion isn't about what we do for God, it's about what God has done, and continues to do, for us. The freedom of faith in Christ, the freedom of the Holy Spirit. Things that I never experienced in my youth, but only discovered in a traditional church environment that spent its time focusing on Jesus and Scripture, and not with lots of rules and moralistic preaching.

I believe that as you spend time around here, you'll discover that there is a lot more to Christianity than just "religion vs non-religion" duality. Instead Christians come in many different shapes and sizes, and we have lots of disagreements about a lot of really big things--but when we are doing our Christian duty rightly we are having our debates in the context of being a family. But we, are of course, all of us broken sinners who continually need to abide in the grace of God, for each of us is a work in progress until the day God either beckons us home or Christ returns.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[YahuahSaves]

I get it, or I think I do. Though my experience is different. My experience of Christianity growing up was complicated. As a small child my family attended a non-denominational church that simply described itself as a "Bible church", until we were kicked out because of some ugly behind-the-scene church politics. We eventually discovered a Pentecostal church, a part of the Foursquare denomination. All the my education was at an independent fundamentalist Baptist school that was of the men should be clean shaven, you can't listen to certain kinds of music, and only the King James Version of the Bible is acceptable to read variety.

And the way I was raised was very much in the "Christianity isn't a religion, it's a relationship" line of thinking. As such twenty years ago you could still find me speaking very negatively of "religion".

My experience, however, is that my relationship with Christ grew stronger when I drew upon the resources of two thousand years of Christian history. I'm not going to sit here and tell you what church to go to. But I do want to encourage you to have an open mind about the experiences of many Christians who have found their lives blessed and enriched by "religion", not as a means of trying to make God happy; just the opposite. Because for us we've learned that religion isn't about what we do for God, it's about what God has done, and continues to do, for us. The freedom of faith in Christ, the freedom of the Holy Spirit. Things that I never experienced in my youth, but only discovered in a traditional church environment that spent its time focusing on Jesus and Scripture, and not with lots of rules and moralistic preaching.

I believe that as you spend time around here, you'll discover that there is a lot more to Christianity than just "religion vs non-religion" duality. Instead Christians come in many different shapes and sizes, and we have lots of disagreements about a lot of really big things--but when we are doing our Christian duty rightly we are having our debates in the context of being a family. But we, are of course, all of us broken sinners who continually need to abide in the grace of God, for each of us is a work in progress until the day God either beckons us home or Christ returns.

-CryptoLutheran

My Grandmother who raised me also believed her religion was not a religion but a relationship. Her denomination (the one she raised me in) had all sorts of rules beyond the 10 commandments, they celebrated the feast of unleavened bread and that was the only thing I enjoyed as a kid. My Nan gave me a foundation that helped me in recent times, even if her view was a little off, it was enough for me to believe in God the heavenly father. One thing I hated was the 'Obey' word, because of how much she used it, she was old fashioned obviously, I still cringe when I hear people say it now.. but since finding out the original Hebrew word actually means 'keep', it changes the vibe completely.

I see religion as a set of rules and orders to follow, whereas contemplating a healthy relationship, there is respect and boundaries.
That being said, converting my understanding as a child from God as a disciplinary father figure to a loving one who corrects at times (rightly so), is difficult because I have no foundation for that kind of 'healthy' relationship.

My reasons for not attending a church at this time, 1. Because I started out with my old child mindset of 'this is what I have to do to please God.
2. Because I was searching for help and answers from people with no experience, or people who had experience, but either too afraid to share, or saw their negative spiritual experiences as 'personal' between them and God, so it left me still feeling isolated, being a 'new' Christian... people would rather pretend everything is going great rather than expose the raw truth of their lives, believers and non-believers alike.
3. I challenged some of the viewpoints of the community in 2 different churches I attended, and the reaction spoke volumes to me.. some Christians are so set in their line of thinking, they're accepting the status-quo and not really using discernment for the times we're in.
Finally 4. I was crying in my car not long before I decided to leave the church and I heard God say; 'Follow me, and I'll make you delight in me.' Funny thing I thought I was, but it made me question my true motivation for going to church. I'm not %100 sure if he meant leave the church, but he did/does want me to focus on him first and foremost.
And also, in the end, I didn't feel like I quite fit in to either church and since there's not another to go to in my area, I decided to just let it go for now.

I don’t judge if someone wants to go to church for the fellowship with others, nothing wrong with that if the focus is on Jesus. But other ways to have that also (this site for example).

 

[Diamond7]

I started to block my memories.

God does not heal memories, He goes back in time to when the event took place to bring about healing and restoration. Even He can go back generations because we are told memories can be inherited. We know God is real because of the miracles He performs in our life that goes beyond positive thinking or the power of suggestion.

 

[YahuahSaves]

God does not heal memories, He goes back in time to when the event took place to bring about healing and restoration. Even He can go back generations because we are told memories can be inherited. We know God is real because of the miracles He performs in our life that goes beyond positive thinking or the power of suggestion.

I absolutely agree ... for me he has been healing my past by putting me in situations and around people that have triggered the buried memories to the surface so I've had no choice but to "re-live" them by actually feeling and releasing the associated emotions. He healed my broken identity this way (everything I thought I was has been replaced with the truth in him).

 

[Diamond7]

feeling and releasing the associated emotions.

I have heard teaching on binding and loosing. Matthew 18 18 "“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

 

[YahuahSaves]

I have heard teaching on binding and loosing. Matthew 18 18 "“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

What are you trying to say? People cry you know. It's actually a natural part of being human.

You're only quoting a sentence out of what I write. It's best to take someone's post in it's entire context.

 

[Diamond7]

You're only quoting a sentence out of what I write. It's best to take someone's post in it's entire

I gave you a scripture to back up what you are saying.

 

[YahuahSaves]

I gave you a scripture to back up what you are saying.

Yes, I know, and I asked you what was your point in writing that?

 

[Jonaitis]

I get deja vu almost all of the time. I'm not sure I would call that a spiritual experience, but it certainly is regular in my life.

 

[YahuahSaves]

I get deja vu almost all of the time. I'm not sure I would call that a spiritual experience, but it certainly is regular in my life.

Which thread have we conversed before?
You are the believer who's still evaluating God through your own understanding right?

 

[Jonaitis]

Which thread have we conversed before?
You are the believer who's still evaluating God through your own understanding right?

Yes.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Yes.

OK when you're further along in your journey, perhaps return to answer the OP thoughtfully.