Hey EddieL (you are in red),
Originally Posted by gmm4j
The fact that He prayed for Peter implies that "God's gift" to Peter could have failed.
I disagree. The fact that He prayed for Peter implies that God's power is needed to sustain Peter's faith.
Satan was going to sift Peter. The events of the night and the pointed accusations of, arent you one of them, pressured Peter to the point of rejecting Christ three times. Jesus told Peter this was going to happen. But, beyond this failure of faith (which was a failure to a degree), it is implied that Peters faith could have failed outright, but Jesus prayed that this would not happen (implying that it could), and He knew Peter would return and stated, when you return.
Yes, God had to intervene on behalf of Peters faith. Again, I find it interesting that God would have to step in to help his faith. It helps us to see the nature of this gift that God has given. It can go up and down, be weak or strong, little or great, and as suggested even fail, etc. Also, it was through the means of events and outside secondary influences that caused his faith to fail to a degree. I guess we need to ask, could he have stood strong in the faith and not denied Christ? I think he could have, but Jesus knew he wouldnt (Job did). So, as I see it, we are not told how God sustained Peters faith, which I agree with you He did, but I would submit the means by which it was done was most likely secondary, outward, and resistible, but Praise God influential and effective.
God never makes us self-sustaining. Regeneration is not God pressing some impersonal button that starts a faith generator so that we no longer need the Spirit.
Amen.
Our sustenance depends on the Spirit every nano-second. If the Spirit ever withdrew from me, I'd be a God-hater in about 2 seconds.
And, we would cease to be. He holds us together (Col 1:17, pastoral encouragement J).
The gift of faith is really the gift of the Spirit.
Not sure exactly what you mean here. You are not referring to the baptism of the Spirit are you? Or, trying to establish an order?
Genuine faith is His fruit, after all.
Faith(fulness) is the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5).
I AM NEVER SELF-DETERMINING.
Not sure exactly what you mean by self-determining. If the following is a description of what you mean, I agree. We are not in a vacuum. And, for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose He does through various means work all things together for our good.
I'm either being influenced by the Spirit or I'm being influenced by the sin in me. The Spirit is using every moment of my life (and everything that comes with that moment) as a means of grace, or I'm being left to myself. Most of the time it is a combination of both. All of it is for my good, and all of it is for God's glory, and its imperfect operation is part of God's perfect plan for our being made perfect.
Amen. However, not to the point of being puppets. We have a will. It is a fight of faith. We wrestle with these things.
How does God strengthen His faith? It doesn't say. Does God irresistibly reach into Peter's heart and turn up the faith amps? I doubt it.
Every circumstance, every physical particle, and every spiritual blessing is a part of the means God uses for those He loves. There isn't anything that isn't a means that the Spirit uses. There's no volume knob for grace or faith. There's simply Providence.
Amen. It is not an irresistible force that turns a knob up or down in us. And even, as you stated, Regeneration is not God pressing some impersonal button. But to me that is what the Calvinist version of regeneration looks like, a flip of the switch against the will of an unwilling stubborn and rebellious individual very impersonal.
When Jesus noted that the feilds were white unto harvest. He said that we should pray that the Lord of the harvest irresistibly regenerate them all. No, pray that He send laborers into the field. Perhaps, God strengthened Peter's faith by having someone bring him an encouraging word. Faith comes by hearing...
What I hope you can come to understand is that Calvinists believe in secondary causes and means, too.
Amen. Im with ya.
We just see the encourager, the evangelist, the laborers, and everything else as being managed by God with the purpose and power and promise to succeed.
I agree here also. A beautiful orchestrated synergism for the Glory of ONE.
On the day that I believed, there was an ice storm. My 45-minute commute home was turned into a 4 1/2 hour trek (I was living and working near Washing D.C.). My heart had been turned towards the gospel, but as a software engineer I had some intellectual arrogance. I wanted the Bible to be real, but refused to accept that it was. I had been listening to WAVA radio shows because I was into talk radio and Christian talk was all there was at the time in D.C. Every show on the way home was about "why we can believe the Bible is true". There was a special guest on the "Bible Answer Man". D. James Kennedy was in a series about it. It was a non-stop, 4 hour message on exactly what my objection was during an ice-storm where there was nothing to do but hear the message.
God set you up!
I was completely overcome. I was won over. Every event for the last year had led up to that day, and every piece of it was constructed just as it had to be to overcome my pride. There were dozen of details, both circumstantially and spiritually, that led to that day, AND THAT WAS JUST FOR ME. I have watched the conversion of my wife and children. I have heard the conversion stories for many of the crowd I grew up with, and it is impossible to ignore the specific people God converted and the significance of it being those specific people. To think of specific, intimate, and personal steps that God goes through for every single believer it is just staggering. He is the Architect of Faith.
Awesome!You see, I see all this as the leading, drawing, convicting, wooing, revealing by the Spirit of an unregenerate person toward Christ until you finally reached the point of genuine faith. This all suggests synergy; you responding to the Spirit prior to regeneration. You didnt turn the radio station, your heart had been turned toward the gospel, wanted the Bible to be real, circumstantially and spiritually that led to that day, impossible to ignore the specific people God converted, personal steps
How did a dead, unwilling, rebellious person begin to recognize or respond in the slightest without the ability to do so. Had you been regenerated prior to these promptings without you knowing it? Anyway, this set up and leading of the Spirit brought you through a process of query till you came to genuine faith, at which point, I believe you are brought into union with Christ and made righteous by that faith. Also, at this time you came alive by the Spirit (no life prior to Christ) to the things of Spirit and the Kingdom of our God (you start to produce fruit and operate in the gifts). You are indwelt by the Spirit and sealed by Him. The Spirit subsequently leads you into all Truth and works in you and through you for His purposes and pleasure.
When I take my experience to the Bible I see, quite in black and white, that God did everything He needed to to win me over.
Amen. But again, even your verbiage of personal steps and being won over infers a convincing process toward Christ before regeneration. I don't understand this in light of Calvinisms understanding of Total Inability.
To imagine that I could've refused is laughable.
If you were led by revelation refusal was possible. If you were regenerated in order for all this to happen then you are right you could not have refused. It amazes me that some people who see God move in just as powerful and beautiful ways; they see it, acknowledge it, function in it, and yet they end up rejecting Him and He says of them I never knew. Can you imagine that some who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, would fall away and crucify the Son of God all over again; subjecting him to public disgrace (Heb 6:4-6)?
The designer of the universe knows me inside and out. If He truly wants to sway me, there's no stopping Him. Every molecule of the universe, both visible and invisible, and even time itself bows at His every thought. Any objection I could have He already understands. My will, my pride, my whole existence is a vapor against His will. There is no way I could win against the power and promise of God. To me, to think that I could've refused is the pinnacle of arrogance.
This is all true even if it is the Will of God that He has given you the ability to receive or reject Him, at which point even though we have the ability to receive or reject we are fulfilling His Will to do so.
