Special Inward Call?

[gmm4j]

Hey EddieL (you are in red),


I'm curious why you think it should be understood that an act of God to fulfill a promise to change the heart of people is ever resistible?


The many verses that say people refuse His offers, gifts, provision. The very term “refuse” implies an ability to receive.

I think, though, that you impose a double standard. You think you can imply that faith is self-wrought, but even with all the verses that indicate the purpose and result of the gift of the Spirit, you require explicit texts for irresistible grace.


Purpose and results do not prove the means of application.


You believe the verses that indicate purpose and results of the gift of the Spirit, are indicators of what happens by irresistible regeneration producing faith. I believe the verses that indicate purpose and results of the gift of the Spirit, are indicators of what happens after a person enters the Covenant by faith and results in regeneration (part of the promise).


There are plenty of verses that indicate faith is something that is possible without receiving it as a special gift or the need to be regenerated in order to have it. This faith (belief) can be placed in all kinds of things. Faith can rest on men’s wisdom. Faith can be useless. Faith can be incomplete. Faith can be without deeds. Faith can be abandoned and not continued in. Faith can fail. Faith can be little and faith can be weak. Faith can be shipwrecked. And, one day faith will be finished. The “virtue” and “work” is not faith; it is what the faith is placed in.


1 Cor 2:4-5
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5 so thatyour faithmight notrest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

James 2:20
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless

There is such a thing as useless faith. It is not a saving faith, but none the less it is called faith. Does God give gifts of useless faith?


James 2:22
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.


There is such a thing as an incomplete faith, none the less it is called faith. Does God directly give the complete or incomplete type of faith? Is what the person does a direct gift from God also?


1 Tim 4:1-2
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.


So they were in the faith and then they were able to abandon the faith. Even though they were able to abandon their faith, it was called faith.


Col 1:23
if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

Faith that is not continued in is certainly not saving faith, but none the less, it is called faith. Or, is it possible to not continue in your God-given gift?

Rom 14:1-2
Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.

Does God directly give weak faith?

Luke 22:31-32
"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Did Jesus pray for something that could not have happened? No, His faith could have failed! Otherwise, Jesus wouldn't have had to pray about it. People can shipwreck their faith.


People can have faith that is not a genuine saving faith. This faith may be based on something other than the gospel. This same faith may also believe the tenets of Christianity, but not be complete with corresponding works.

Saving faith however, comes from hearing the Word of God and is based on the Word of God, which is the power of God unto salvation, and will result in good works! And, even with this faith, if you don't continue in it, it actually proves that you really never had the true saving faith to begin with.

Yes, faith is inherent in man, but saving faith is: inherent faith placed in the gospel.

 

[gmm4j]

Hey EddieL (you are in red),

You are okay with implications that grace depends on the will of man. Aren't you just bringing a presupposition of ability to the text?

EddieL, I think one of the differences we have is that you do not consider a “self-wrought” faith to be by the grace of God, and I do. Any “self-wrought” faith can only be by grace, I just don’t believe it is an irresistible grace. First, it is only by grace that we have an ability to believe. Second, it is only by grace that the revelation that the “self-wrought” faith is placed in has been revealed. Genuine saving “self-wrought” faith only comes by God graciously giving us the Gospel (through the self-wrought will of men responding to God’s call to bring it to us). Etc., etc.
We probably will not convince each other of our positions, but I just don’t see God as revealed in Scripture as a God who wants to force men into a relationship with Him. I see that He wants a free and loving voluntary relationship with us.

The sun shines on the elect and the non-elect. Isn’t that the grace of God? But, I can resist it. I can choose to live in a cave and never see the light of day. I can live with the blinds closed, rejecting the light. Again, one of my main contentions is the irresistible (against our will) nature of your understanding of regeneration.

Why would we ever consider that those chosen according to an election of grace could resist that grace, if the promise of that grace is a new heart that is caused to know God and obey Him?

They are chosen based on the condition of faith.

You side-stepped the question. What is there in Scripture that permits us to suppose that a promise of God for a new heart that causes people to know Him could be resisted?

No I didn’t. God makes promises conditional. We enter into the covenant of grace, which promises birth as a son, life, being an heir, rest, righteousness (pure heart), etc., by faith. You don’t get union with Christ and become an alive son of God until you are made at/one with Him by faith…

Rom 4:13-16
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring-not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham.

Rom 4:20-21
Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.

Rom 4:22-25
This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." 23 The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness-for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Gal 3:26-29
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Heb 4:1-3
Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,…

 

[gmm4j]

Hey EddieL (you are in red),

Rom 5:1-2
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.

You gain access into the election of grace by faith. Faith precedes a new regenerated heart.


I can see how you could get that interpretation from this passage, but I don't believe that Paul is crediting people as to being the cause of their faith. There are a lot of things from God that can be referred to as grace. Whenever we see the word grace, it doesn't automatically mean forgiveness or influence on the heart or regeneration. To understand what Paul is saying, we need to understand which grace he's referring to. The peace we have with God, made possible by the forgiveness of our sins, is apparently the grace that Paul is referring to.

Okay.

That doesn't mean that we haven't received some other unmerited help from God prior to our faith.

I agree wholeheartedly. I just don’t believe the unmerited help irresistibly changes us against our will. I believe He has sovereignly chosen to work with our free-will. He still gets ALLLL the Glory.

 

[Foghorn]

That doesn't mean that we haven't received some other unmerited help from God prior to our faith.

I agree wholeheartedly. I just don’t believe the unmerited help irresistibly changes us against our will. I believe He has sovereignly chosen to work with our free-will. He still gets ALLLL the Glory.

I do not understand the worry and detest about God doing something, for our good {I might add,} against our wills?

Why not pick on the devil?

in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4:4.

Now, I don't know what you think but what right does Satan have to blind the eyes of unbelievers? When I didn't believe, I didn't know, but since I am a believer, I am offended he would do such a think against my will. Would I have believed on my own free will, perhaps not, but what gives him the right to blind me?

No one seems to have a problem with the devil blinding eyes and minds against wills; but God? good grief! What does He think He is doing? How dare He irresistibly drag me out of a filthy bucket of scum and sin, clean me up, cloth me with Christ and love me and bless me in Christ?

Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. Matt 12:22.
.

 

[gmm4j]

Hey Foghorn (you are in red),

Originally Posted by gmm4j

That doesn't mean that we haven't received some other unmerited help from God prior to our faith.

I agree wholeheartedly. I just don’t believe the unmerited help irresistibly changes us against our will. I believe He has sovereignly chosen to work with our free-will. He still gets ALLLL the Glory.


I do not understand the worry and detest about God doing something, for our good {I might add,} against our wills?

I’m not worried nor do I detest the thought of God doing something good against our will. I just see in Scripture that He does not work "against" the will of man in the sense that He irresistibly forces and changes his will. This does not exclude God ever doing things we don't like, against our will. I believe God is always doing all kinds of things against our will. Sometimes, He does things we do like (this evokes certain responses), and sometimes He does things we don't like "against our will" and this evokes a whole other set of responses. But, I don’t see Him directly, forcibly, irresistibly changing our nature and will. He leads, draws, reveals... He provides impetus that influence (not irresistibly) and allows us to work within our own will. And, He knows what we will do when certain impetus' are provided.

Why not pick on the devil?

I’m up for that! He’s a murderer, a liar, an accuser, a deceiver, and an adversary. He blinds and steals and destroys. I don’t like him.

in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4:4.

Now, I don't know what you think but what right does Satan have to blind the eyes of unbelievers?

I think satan has every right to blind the eyes of unbelievers, because man enslaved himself to him by willfully following and obeying him rather than God.

When I didn't believe, I didn't know, but sense I am a believer, I am offended he would do such a think against my will.

No, our will as you know, is naturally rebellious. You or someone argued this in another thread. It might have been File13 in Steal From A Dead Man?. This blindness is not done against our will, but in concert with it. We naturally love the darkness.

No one seems to have a problem with the devil blinding eyes and minds against wills; but God? good grief! What does He think He is doing? (See above).

How dare He irresistibly drag me out of a filthy bucket of scum and sin, clean me up, cloth me with Christ and love me and bless me in Christ? (See above J)

Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. Matt 12:22.

Good verse, but not conclusive. Jesus healed him. Was it against his will? The text is silent about his will and what he wanted. The demon controlled his sight and speech, but did it control his will? The text is silent. Was Jesus responding to the faith of others? The text doesn’t say.

Of course you could also use Lazarus, but he was already a friend of Jesus.

Them’s my thoughts J.

 

[Foghorn]

Hey Foghorn (you are in red),

Originally Posted by gmm4j

That doesn't mean that we haven't received some other unmerited help from God prior to our faith.

I agree wholeheartedly. I just don’t believe the unmerited help irresistibly changes us against our will. I believe He has sovereignly chosen to work with our free-will. He still gets ALLLL the Glory.


I do not understand the worry and detest about God doing something, for our good {I might add,} against our wills?

I’m not worried nor do I detest the thought of God doing something good against our will. I just see in Scripture that He does not works with the will men in the sense that He irresistibly forces changes. This does not exclude God ever doing things don't like against our will. I believe God is always doing all kinds of things against our will. Sometimes, He does things we do like (this evokes certain responses), and sometimes He does things we don't like "against our will" and this evokes a whole other set of responses. But, I don’t see Him directly, forcibly, irresistibly changing our nature and will. He leads, draws, reveals... He provides impetus that influence (not irresistibly) and allows us to work within our own will. And, He knows what we will do when certain impetus' are provided.

Why not pick on the devil?

I’m up for that! He’s a murderer, a liar, an accuser, a deceiver, and an adversary. He blinds and steals and destroys. I don’t like him.

in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4:4.

Now, I don't know what you think but what right does Satan have to blind the eyes of unbelievers?

I think satan has every right to blind the eyes of unbelievers, because man enslaved himself to him by willfully following and obeying him rather than God.

When I didn't believe, I didn't know, but sense I am a believer, I am offended he would do such a think against my will.

No, our will as you know, is naturally rebellious. You or someone argued this in another thread. It might have been File13 in Steal From A Dead Man?. This blindness is not done against our will, but in concert with it. We naturally love the darkness.

No one seems to have a problem with the devil blinding eyes and minds against wills; but God? good grief! What does He think He is doing? (See above).

How dare He irresistibly drag me out of a filthy bucket of scum and sin, clean me up, cloth me with Christ and love me and bless me in Christ? (See above J)

Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw. Matt 12:22.

Good verse, but not conclusive. Jesus healed him. Was it against his will? The text is silent about his will and what he wanted. The demon controlled his sight and speech, but did it control his will? The text is silent. Was Jesus responding to the faith of others? The text doesn’t say.

Of course you could also use Lazarus, but he was already a friend of Jesus.

Them’s my thoughts J.

You have made some good points.

 

[Eddie L]

We probably will not convince each other of our positions, but I just don’t see God as revealed in Scripture as a God who wants to force men into a relationship with Him. I see that He wants a free and loving voluntary relationship with us.

Then what is Hell all about?

It seems to me your view has God putting a gun to people's head saying "trust me or burn forever" and, at the time, is so concerned that all people will enter "a free and loving voluntary relationship" that He is too polite to regenerate those who hate Him. That doesn't seem to be a consistent premise to me.

It seems to me to be much more consistent and much more biblical that a just God Who is sending people who deserve it to Hell is moving to save the world by freeing some of the people who hate Him from their spiritual blindness so that they will be spared.

To me, the biggest miracle of grace is that it takes a person who hates God and changes them into someone who enters into a loving, voluntary relationship with Him. That kind of work of God is doing a God hater a huge favor (unmerited, even).

 

[Foghorn]

Then what is Hell all about?

It seems to me your view has God putting a gun to people's head saying "trust me or burn forever" and, at the time, is so concerned that all people will enter "a free and loving voluntary relationship"

Yes, I can see that as well. I see many inconsistencies in Arminianism.

that He is too polite to regenerate those who hate Him. That doesn't seem to be a consistent premise to me.

I agree.

It seems to me to be much more consistent and much more biblical that a just God Who is sending people who deserve it to Hell is moving to save the world by freeing some of the people who hate Him from their spiritual blindness so that they will be spared.

Amen! By grace we are saved.......

To me, the biggest miracle of grace is that it takes a person who hates God and changes them into someone who enters into a loving, voluntary relationship with Him. That kind of work of God is doing a God hater a huge favor (unmerited, even).

Amen!

 

[gmm4j]

Then what is Hell all about?

You know the answer. Hell is about justice and the willful rejection of His great provision of salvation.

It seems to me your view has God putting a gun to people's head saying "trust me or burn forever" and, at the time, is so concerned that all people will enter "a free and loving voluntary relationship" that He is too polite to regenerate those who hate Him. That doesn't seem to be a consistent premise to me.


It seems completely consistent to me. No gun though.

It seems to me to be much more consistent and much more biblical that a just God Who is sending people who deserve it to Hell is moving to save the world by freeing some of the people who hate Him from their spiritual blindness so that they will be spared.


You understand God’s sovereignty. God doesn’t have to move to save the world. There doesn’t have to be any process involved in this at all. In a blink of an eye the elect are glorified and the non-elect are justly damned. He could have done this and it not diminish His Glory one ounce. There is much more involved, and I believe part of it is that He has chosen to work in, and through, and with the will of men. He does want free-will loving relationships, and the alternative to a relationship with Life is death and punishment.

 

[Eddie L]

Hey EddieL (you are in red),

There are plenty of verses that indicate faith is something that is possible without receiving it as a special gift or the need to be regenerated in order to have it. This faith (belief) can be placed in all kinds of things. Faith can rest on men’s wisdom. Faith can be useless. Faith can be incomplete. Faith can be without deeds. Faith can be abandoned and not continued in. Faith can fail. Faith can be little and faith can be weak. Faith can be shipwrecked. And, one day faith will be finished. The “virtue” and “work” is not faith; it is what the faith is placed in.

Of course all that is true, which is why it is the spirtual gift of faith that is so important. Faith isn't a good gift if it is faith in something false. The Spirit of Truth brings faith in the truth, which is a pretty amazing gift.

1 Cor 2:4-5
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, 5 so thatyour faithmight notrest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

James 2:20
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless

There is such a thing as useless faith. It is not a saving faith, but none the less it is called faith. Does God give gifts of useless faith?


James 2:22
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.


There is such a thing as an incomplete faith, none the less it is called faith. Does God directly give the complete or incomplete type of faith? Is what the person does a direct gift from God also?


1 Tim 4:1-2
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.


So they were in the faith and then they were able to abandon the faith. Even though they were able to abandon their faith, it was called faith.


Col 1:23
if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

Faith that is not continued in is certainly not saving faith, but none the less, it is called faith. Or, is it possible to not continue in your God-given gift?

Rom 14:1-2
Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.

Does God directly give weak faith?

Luke 22:31-32
"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Did Jesus pray for something that could not have happened? No, His faith could have failed! Otherwise, Jesus wouldn't have had to pray about it. People can shipwreck their faith.


People can have faith that is not a genuine saving faith. This faith may be based on something other than the gospel. This same faith may also believe the tenets of Christianity, but not be complete with corresponding works.

Saving faith however, comes from hearing the Word of God and is based on the Word of God, which is the power of God unto salvation, and will result in good works! And, even with this faith, if you don't continue in it, it actually proves that you really never had the true saving faith to begin with.

Yes, faith is inherent in man, but saving faith is: inherent faith placed in the gospel.

I don't understand how any of the verses you posted form an argument. Calvinists understand what faith is. We just credit a real faith to an act of God on our behalf.

 

[gmm4j]

Luke 22:31-32
"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Could God's gift of faith in Peter have failed?

 

[Eddie L]

Luke 22:31-32
"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers."

Could God's gift of faith in Peter have failed?

Well, if it isn't up to God to strengthen it, why was Jesus praying for Him to? If the faith was up to Simon, what's the point of prayer?

 

[gmm4j]

Col 1:22-23
But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation- 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

Is this faith that can save, real faith that you credit to an act of God? If so, how is it possible for you to forsake the gift that is already "yours"?

Maybe this wasn't real faith that was given even though it is based on the hope held out in the gospel?

 

[gmm4j]

The fact that He prayed for Peter implies that "God's gift" to Peter could have failed.

How does God strengthen His faith? It doesn't say. Does God irresistibly reach into Peter's heart and turn up the faith amps? I doubt it. When Jesus noted that the feilds were white unto harvest. He said that we should pray that the Lord of the harvest irresistibly regenerate them all. No, pray that He send laborers into the field. Perhaps, God strengthened Peter's faith by having someone bring him an encouraging word. Faith comes by hearing...

 

[Eddie L]

Col 1:22-23
But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation- 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

Is this faith that can save, real faith that you credit to an act of God? If so, how is it possible for you to forsake the gift that is already "yours"?

Maybe this wasn't real faith that was given even though it is based on the hope held out in the gospel?

You're doing it again! You are taking a work of encouragement and making "logical" conclusions about it to determine theology. This is pastoral advice, and to those who are truly reborn of the Spirit it will take root. The visible church is not "the elect". It is a group of people claiming to be. Those who hold out until the end will have shown "their calling and election sure". In the meantime, all of us are instructing each other and praying that our words are being used by God as a means of grace to those who are being saved.

The Spirit uses means, and one primary means is Scripture. If the Spirit grabs a person in the body by the Paul's encouragement and it leads to that person remaining faithful, that is grace in action.

 

[Foghorn]

Col 1:22-23
But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation- 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

Is this faith that can save, real faith that you credit to an act of God? If so, how is it possible for you to forsake the gift that is already "yours"?

Maybe this wasn't real faith that was given even though it is based on the hope held out in the gospel?

I cannot help but think of the time when Jesus breathed on the apostles and said, receive the Holy Spirit, and sent them on a journey. When they returned, after asking who the people said He was, Peter confessed, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Now g, who's faith was this? Peter's right? based on what, him just knowing and making a free will choice that Jesus is the Son of the Living God? I think not.

But as Jesus said, flesh and blood has not reveled this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Matt 16.

You see g, knowing Christ and having faith in Him is not in man.

Knowing Christ and having faith in Him is from God, through regeneration and revelation. I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; Matt 16:18.

What is the church built on? Peter, and a free will choice? Or.

God revealing Christ and therefore Peter confessing? I say yes!

Why did Jesus have to pray that Peters faith would not fail Him?
Here are my thoughts:

This is for our benefit, it is a reassurance that Christ is a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek. He is our priest and intercessor, why would He not pray for us? He is faithful.

Also, this was before pentacost, and if I understand correctly, before Pentecost the Spirit did not stay continuously with believers. This is something Peter had to go through, and Jesus prayed for him, so how could it fail? Jesus even said, "when you return, not, if you return. I see a faithful God, indeed, a blessed assurance!


God bless.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...351Gv-z-gg6nvndLQ&sig2=Zh_gq1N79w0LDU6YU69Pcg

 

[Foghorn]

The fact that He prayed for Peter implies that "God's gift" to Peter could have failed.

How does God strengthen His faith? It doesn't say. Does God irresistibly reach into Peter's heart and turn up the faith amps? I doubt it. When Jesus noted that the feilds were white unto harvest. He said that we should pray that the Lord of the harvest irresistibly regenerate them all. No, pray that He send laborers into the field. Perhaps, God strengthened Peter's faith by having someone bring him an encouraging word. Faith comes by hearing...

How does God strengthen His faith?

I don't know about you but as Jesus says in scripture I will pray for you, that alone would strengthen mine. To think, the Christ, the Son of the living God, praying for me... That's a faith lifter right there.

 

[Eddie L]

The fact that He prayed for Peter implies that "God's gift" to Peter could have failed.

I disagree. The fact that He prayed for Peter implies that God's power is needed to sustain Peter's faith.

God never makes us self-sustaining. Regeneration is not God pressing some impersonal button that starts a faith generator so that we no longer need the Spirit. Our sustenance depends on the Spirit every nano-second. If the Spirit ever withdrew from me, I'd be a God-hater in about 2 seconds.

The gift of faith is really the gift of the Spirit. Genuine faith is His fruit, after all. I AM NEVER SELF-DETERMINING. I'm either being influenced by the Spirit or I'm being influenced by the sin in me. The Spirit is using every moment of my life (and everything that comes with that moment) as a means of grace, or I'm being left to myself. Most of the time it is a combination of both. All of it is for my good, and all of it is for God's glory, and its imperfect operation is part of God's perfect plan for our being made perfect.

How does God strengthen His faith? It doesn't say. Does God irresistibly reach into Peter's heart and turn up the faith amps? I doubt it.

Every circumstance, every physical particle, and every spiritual blessing is a part of the means God uses for those He loves. There isn't anything that isn't a means that the Spirit uses. There's no volume knob for grace or faith. There's simply Providence.

When Jesus noted that the feilds were white unto harvest. He said that we should pray that the Lord of the harvest irresistibly regenerate them all. No, pray that He send laborers into the field. Perhaps, God strengthened Peter's faith by having someone bring him an encouraging word. Faith comes by hearing...

What I hope you can come to understand is that Calvinists believe in secondary causes and means, too. We just see the encourager, the evangelist, the laborers, and everything else as being managed by God with the purpose and power and promise to succeed.

On the day that I believed, there was an ice storm. My 45-minute commute home was turned into a 4 1/2 hour trek (I was living and working near Washing D.C.). My heart had been turned towards the gospel, but as a software engineer I had some intellectual arrogance. I wanted the Bible to be real, but refused to accept that it was. I had been listening to WAVA radio shows because I was into talk radio and Christian talk was all there was at the time in D.C. Every show on the way home was about "why we can believe the Bible is true". There was a special guest on the "Bible Answer Man". D. James Kennedy was in a series about it. It was a non-stop, 4 hour message on exactly what my objection was during an ice-storm where there was nothing to do but hear the message.

I was completely overcome. I was won over. Every event for the last year had led up to that day, and every piece of it was constructed just as it had to be to overcome my pride. There were dozen of details, both circumstantially and spiritually, that led to that day, AND THAT WAS JUST FOR ME. I have watched the conversion of my wife and children. I have heard the conversion stories for many of the crowd I grew up with, and it is impossible to ignore the specific people God converted and the significance of it being those specific people. To think of specific, intimate, and personal steps that God goes through for every single believer it is just staggering. He is the Architect of Faith.

When I take my experience to the Bible I see, quite in black and white, that God did everything He needed to to win me over. To imagine that I could've refused is laughable. The designer of the universe knows me inside and out. If He truly wants to sway me, there's no stopping Him. Every molecule of the universe, both visible and invisible, and even time itself bows at His every thought. Any objection I could have He already understands. My will, my pride, my whole existence is a vapor against His will. There is no way I could win against the power and promise of God. To me, to think that I could've refused is the pinnacle of arrogance.

 

[gmm4j]

But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail.

It may have failed. I presented earlier all the verses of faith that can fail, be shipwrecked, be vain, useless, etc...

If it would not have been able to fail, then Jesus wouldn't have had to pray.

Why would I pray for you to pass an exam, if it were already established that you could not fail it? No prayer is necessary.

 

[Foghorn]

But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail.

It may have failed. I presented earlier all the verses of faith that can fail, be shipwrecked, be vain, useless, etc...

If it would not have been able to fail, then Jesus wouldn't have had to pray.

Why would I pray for you to pass an exam, if it were already established that you could not fail it? No prayer is necessary.

Curious of your thoughts on my reply #36?