Speaking In Tounges...

stelow · Jun 7, 2011

It's really quite simple and if one is being sincere, they will not be able to prove from the bible that speaking in an unlearned language to others, who would understand that language is needed today.

The so called speaking in unknown(unlearned) tongues(languages), we hear people speaking today, are either self, group, or satanic induced.

His_disciple3 · Jun 7, 2011

stelow said:
It's really quite simple and if one is being sincere, they will not be able to prove from the bible that speaking in an unlearned language to others, who would understand that language is needed today.

The so called speaking in unknown(unlearned) tongues(languages), we hear people speaking today, are either self, group, or satanic induced.

could you please show us from scripture where the Holy Spirit quit giving out the gifts? now 1 cor 13 don't do it; because that comes down to an interpretation "which that is perfect comes " either scriptures/ KJB which hardly any Baptist believe that the KJB is perfect anymore and knowledge didn't vanish with the Holy scriptures but rather knowledge increased with scripture, so the perfect one can't mean Jesus while He walked here on earth , for then all tongues even in acts would be unbibical, or of satan as you would say,
It also can't mean the Holy Ghost that fell at Pentecost for that would also make all mention of tongues after Acts 2 unbibical. the prophecy of Joel 2 the one Peter quoted said that pentecost was the fulfilling of that prophecy but the prophecy starts with God pouring out His Spirit and ends with the moon turning to blood and the sun darkening, and the day that which is perfect comes, the notable day that the Lord comes, we are still in those days. unless someone can say that the moon has already turned to blood!!! so we are in that prophecy until He comes back, after the moon turns to blood

1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
KJV

(side Note: better make sure you are right about unknown tongues being of the devil, for if you are wrong and there are of God through the Holy Spirit, you and many others may have just blasphemed ( speaking evil of) the Holy Ghost) or to say the least is there anything too hard for our God? sure He can't give out gifts anymore according to some!! He left that for all the fakers and for the devil,

chris4243 · Jun 8, 2011

His_disciple3 said:
(side Note: better make sure you are right about unknown tongues being of the devil, for if you are wrong and there are of God through the Holy Spirit, you and many others may have just blasphemed ( speaking evil of) the Holy Ghost) or to say the least is there anything too hard for our God? sure He can't give out gifts anymore according to some!! He left that for all the fakers and for the devil,

I'm sure that's not always the case, but for most cases of "speaking in tongues" I'd have to say it has very little to do with edification and a lot more to do with being puffed up with pride. There's even a really simple test to tell the difference.

najiramlee · Jun 8, 2011

NvxiaLee said:
That sounds like the fictional stories constantly fed to Pentecostals by itinerant ministers looking for a payday by speaking on various churches and religious groups. The National Language Act of 1967 made English an official language of Malaysia, where Bisayans are an ethnic group. Why would God have an English-speaker speak in a primitive language where everyone speaks English?

For what reason should anyone belief this story? BTW "Sunda" doesn't mean "follow" in the Bisayan language.

We may or may not believe on that story but I still believe that we don't necessarily need to have an interpreter while speaking in tongue because it is not others that we tend to edify but our own selves our own spirits.

1 Corinthians 14:4
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

And dear, Bisayan ethnic group that I am talking about is not the ones in Malaysia if indeed they do have that ethnic group in there. I'm talking about Bisayan from the Philippines. I know "sunda" means "follow" because I am a native speaker of the Bisayan language. I am from that ethnic group - a Bisaya.

OzSpen · Jun 8, 2011

Najiramlee,

najiramlee said:
We may or may not believe on that story but I still believe that we don't necessarily need to have an interpreter while speaking in tongue because it is not others that we tend to edify but our own selves our own spirits.

1 Corinthians 14:4
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

This is what happens when you pluck just one verse out of a chapter and ignore the context. What is stated in the verses which follow in 1 Cor. 14?

6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church. 13 For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say (1 Cor. 14:6-13 NIV).

When the supernatural gift of tongues is manifested in a congregation there MUST be the accompanying gift of interpretation. That's what the Bible states here. Why? 1 Cor. 14:9 tells us exactly,

Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.

If there is an uncertain sound, unintelligible words, in the congregation, nobody will know what is said. Therefore, the gift of interpretation is absolutely necessary to accompany the gift of tongues if there are these manifestations when the congregation gathers.

In Christ, Oz

Presbyterian Continuist · Jun 8, 2011

OzSpen said:
Najiramlee,

This is what happens when you pluck just one verse out of a chapter and ignore the context. What is stated in the verses which follow in 1 Cor. 14?

When the supernatural gift of tongues is manifested in a congregation there MUST be the accompanying gift of interpretation. That's what the Bible states here. Why? 1 Cor. 14:9 tells us exactly,

If there is an uncertain sound, unintelligible words, in the congregation, nobody will know what is said. Therefore, the gift of interpretation is absolutely necessary to accompany the gift of tongues if there are these manifestations when the congregation gathers.

In Christ, Oz

That has never been in doubt. Any novice can see that quite clearly when reading 1 Corinthians 14.

The problem is that some Christians are so prayerless that the only prayer and worship they ever do is in church meetings. For the rest of the time they never really pray or worship God, so they have little concept of private worship and prayer. Therefore they miss what Paul says about the private use of tongues because they spend so little time with God in private they see little use for tongues in that environment.

There is no real point in trying to convince people like that because first they need to shed their religiousity and develop a personal relationship with God.

Presbyterian Continuist · Jun 8, 2011

stelow said:
It's really quite simple and if one is being sincere, they will not be able to prove from the bible that speaking in an unlearned language to others, who would understand that language is needed today.

The so called speaking in unknown(unlearned) tongues(languages), we hear people speaking today, are either self, group, or satanic induced.

What I sense on reading this post is that this is a case where a person has been exposed to a "hard sell" of tongues by a over-enthusiastic Pentecostal Christian. Therefore, the comments about tongues comes more from a negative personal experience which has caused emotional rejection rather than a view well-founded on Scripture.

Jeremy1979 · Jun 8, 2011

His_disciple3 said:
hello I am not going to keep saying that you are taking some scriptures way out of contents But I would recommend that you go ask your pastor If matthew 5: 37 has anything to do with speaking in unknown tongues!

You are most certainly correct It is not a lesson on speaking in tongues, but the point I was trying to make in relation to that scripture is, let your communication be straightforward instead of having a big production. I probably used a bad example

OzSpen · Jun 8, 2011

Oscarr,

Oscarr said:
That has never been in doubt. Any novice can see that quite clearly when reading 1 Corinthians 14 [that the gift of tongues in the church gathering needs the accompanying gift of interpretation in the church gathering[.

The problem is that some Christians are so prayerless that the only prayer and worship they ever do is in church meetings. For the rest of the time they never really pray or worship God, so they have little concept of private worship and prayer. Therefore they miss what Paul says about the private use of tongues because they spend so little time with God in private they see little use for tongues in that environment.

There is no real point in trying to convince people like that because first they need to shed their religiousity and develop a personal relationship with God.

How would you explain biblically the use of tongues as a private prayer language that does not need interpretation?

This is how I see it: I Cor. 14:2, 4 refers to tongues for personal edification and not requiring interpretation -- therefore it is not for use in the church. This seems to be what Paul is referring to when he says, "I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all" (I Cor. 14:18). In the church, he requires intelligibility: "I desire to speak five words with my mind, that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue" (14:19)

I Cor. 14:14-18 contrasts speaking and singing "with the spirit" (tongues on the basis of v. 14) and praying with the mind. Therefore, throughout I Cor. 12-14, there seems to be an interchange of tongues (spiritual language) as a language spoken to God for personal edification and tongues requiring interpretation for the edification of the church.

That has been my experience as well.

Sincerely in Christ, Oz

najiramlee · Jun 8, 2011

OzSpen said:
Najiramlee,

This is what happens when you pluck just one verse out of a chapter and ignore the context. What is stated in the verses which follow in 1 Cor. 14?

When the supernatural gift of tongues is manifested in a congregation there MUST be the accompanying gift of interpretation. That's what the Bible states here. Why? 1 Cor. 14:9 tells us exactly,

If there is an uncertain sound, unintelligible words, in the congregation, nobody will know what is said. Therefore, the gift of interpretation is absolutely necessary to accompany the gift of tongues if there are these manifestations when the congregation gathers.

In Christ, Oz

I stand corrected in there sir as I haven't had clearly given my point. The whole of the teachings about spiritual gifts should have been discussed in its entirety. But what I am after is that, if in the congregation, it still isn't a must that there should be an interpreter because when you read further down, there is an IF.

1 Corinthians 14:26-28 says
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

I say, when you speak in tongue and you know that there is an interpreter, then you can speak in tongue where you will be heard by those around you so that they too will be edified. But IF it so happens that there is no interpreter present, then you should just speak in a manner that the others wouldn't be bothered by what you are uttering since no one can interpret for them. So you should speak in a manner that only you and God will be able to hear.
Is it not?

stelow · Jun 8, 2011

stelow said:
It's really quite simple and if one is being sincere, they will not be able to prove from the bible that speaking in an unlearned language to others, who would understand that language is needed today.

The so called speaking in unknown(unlearned) tongues(languages), we hear people speaking today, are either self, group, or satanic induced.

Oscarr said:
What I sense on reading this post is that this is a case where a person has been exposed to a "hard sell" of tongues by a over-enthusiastic Pentecostal Christian. Therefore, the comments about tongues comes more from a negative personal experience which has caused emotional rejection rather than a view well-founded on Scripture.

Your senses are mistaken, and your view is the one that's unfounded on scripture. I sense you are trying to complicate something that is simple to understand, if one is being honest and sincere.

Prove to me from scripture that speaking in a unknown(unlearned) tongue(language) is needed today.

najiramlee · Jun 8, 2011

stelow said:
Your senses are mistaken, and your view is the one that's unfounded on scripture. I sense you are trying to complicate something that is simple to understand, if one is being honest and sincere.

Prove to me from scripture that speaking in a unknown(unlearned) tongue(language) is needed today.

Dear, I'm sorry to butt in but I felt like you are being a bit harsh in there. Not to anyone but to the Holy Spirit, who is the giver of our spiritual gifts.

It is not about the need for speaking in an unlearned language but it is about the Holy Spirit giving you a gift. When you are given a gift, it is not necessarily because you need it but it is just because the giver loves you, that is why speaking in tongue is a spiritual gift - it is something given to us out of love, not out of the need of it in the past, the present or the future.

NvxiaLee · Jun 8, 2011

najiramlee said:
It is not about the need for speaking in an unlearned language but it is about the Holy Spirit giving you a gift. When you are given a gift, it is not necessarily because you need it but it is just because the giver loves you, that is why speaking in tongue is a spiritual gift - it is something given to us out of love, not out of the need of it in the past, the present or the future.

There is no difference between the modern practice of tongues and random noises that you believe to be tongues. What kind of gift is something that is indistinguishable from garbage?

stelow · Jun 8, 2011

najiramlee said:
Dear, I'm sorry to butt in but I felt like you are being a bit harsh in there. Not to anyone but to the Holy Spirit, who is the giver of our spiritual gifts.

It is not about the need for speaking in an unlearned language but it is about the Holy Spirit giving you a gift. When you are given a gift, it is not necessarily because you need it but it is just because the giver loves you, that is why speaking in tongue is a spiritual gift - it is something given to us out of love, not out of the need of it in the past, the present or the future.

That's ok; you're very cute.

I'm trying to be honest and sincere about the subject of speaking in languages (tongues). If you study the scriptures with as little prejudice as possible, through the gift of the Holy Spirit, which is given to everyone who has put their faith in the good news (gospel) of Christ Jesus, it's then easy to see what Paul is trying to teach the Corinthians and Luke's writings in the book of Acts.

OzSpen · Jun 8, 2011

najiramlee said:
I stand corrected in there sir as I haven't had clearly given my point. The whole of the teachings about spiritual gifts should have been discussed in its entirety. But what I am after is that, if in the congregation, it still isn't a must that there should be an interpreter because when you read further down, there is an IF.

1 Corinthians 14:26-28 says
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

I say, when you speak in tongue and you know that there is an interpreter, then you can speak in tongue where you will be heard by those around you so that they too will be edified. But IF it so happens that there is no interpreter present, then you should just speak in a manner that the others wouldn't be bothered by what you are uttering since no one can interpret for them. So you should speak in a manner that only you and God will be able to hear.
Is it not?

naj,

You don't seem ot understand that the gift of interpretation is just as much a supernatural manifestation of the Spirit as the gift of tongues. "IF it so happens that there is no interpreter present" is a very human approach. We are talking about the supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

Besides, 1 Cor. 14:13 states:

Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret (ESV).

If God moves upon you or me with the gift of tongues, this verse instructs us to pray that we as individuals would have the power to interpret.

However in the verse you quoted, there is an indication that the person given the gift of tongues should "know" if there is a person with the gift of interpretation for the tongues as you indicated in 1 Cor. 14:28;

But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

In Christ, Oz

New_Believer · Jun 9, 2011

I completely agree. That's pretty much how I've thought about it. Since it's supposed to be a spiritual gift, how do you suppose there are masses of people in certain churches speaking in tongues? Do you think they are faking it? It's something I've always wondered about.

mswift · Jun 9, 2011

A couple of cool verses on the Holy Spirit...

Jude 1:20

But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:26

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

I received tongues after desiring the gift and asking God for it. Ask and you will receive. Some people take months. Others as soon as they exit the waters of baptism.

I found an awesome resource but can't post links yet

stelow · Jun 9, 2011

mswift said:
A couple of cool verses on the Holy Spirit...

Jude 1:20

But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:26

26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

I received tongues after desiring the gift and asking God for it. Ask and you will receive. Some people take months. Others as soon as they exit the waters of baptism.

I found an awesome resource but can't post links yet

The scripture you quoted Romans 8:26 says; "wordless groans."

stelow · Jun 9, 2011

Praying in the Holy Spirit can not be used to support your claim to praying in an unlearned language. All born again believers should pray in the Spirit, verses praying in the flesh.

stelow · Jun 9, 2011

New_Believer said:
I completely agree. That's pretty much how I've thought about it. Since it's supposed to be a spiritual gift, how do you suppose there are masses of people in certain churches speaking in tongues? Do you think they are faking it? It's something I've always wondered about.

Paul exposes counterfeit tongues in 1 Corinthians 14. Paul teaches that we should pray with our brain so we can understand what we are saying. The true gift of tongues on the Day of Pentecost, were understandable languages...

Speaking In Tounges...

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