Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
You go too far! You accuse everybody who speaks in tongues as being the devils ministers? Where in the world does that sort of prideful arrogance come from I ask?AV1611 said:The passage you quote is about prayer in general!!
Answer this honestly: If you do not know what you are saying, how do you know it comes from God? Could it not have come from the Devil?
Christ is in me. He controls what I say: I do not yeild my tounge to the devil. The devel has no power over me and can not cause me to say anything.from AV1611:
Answer this honestly: If you do not know what you are saying, how do you know it comes from God? Could it not have come from the Devil?
The Gift of Tongues as used in the Bible was not Satanic. However the gift of tongues as used in the Bible has ceased. This is because the purpose of tongues has ceased. Read the following: http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/tongues/tongues.htm I will post the important bits in another post!Asaph said:Now you have gone too far! Who are you to decide what God can and cannot do? Who are you to say that God would not protect His very own children from such a thing if it was from the enemy?
Your God is such a weakling that He would let His own kids be beat about so?
I've answered you honestly! I therefore have all the right in the universe to question your weak, manmade god!
You went too far in suggesting that tongues is a work of the devil.
Asaph
Surely our Lord was aware of [the] problems which would face His apostles, and He knew that these men lacked certain credentials. So not only did Christ give them a message to preach, but also He gave them a promise of signs which would serve to confirm and authenticate the gospel message: And these signs shall follow those who believe.... And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following (Mark 16:17, 20).One remarkable sign here predicted by the Lord Jesus was that the disciples would be given the ability to "speak with new tongues" (Mark 16:17). This is the first mention of the gift of tongues in the Bible - a promise given by the risen Lord and soon to be fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.
In verse 21 Paul cited an Old Testament passage, Isaiah 28:11-12. Paul knew that the key to understanding the Biblical purpose of tongues is found "in the law," that is, in the Old Testament Scriptures. What does the Old Testament teach concerning tongues? What was the significance and purpose of tongues in Old Testament times? When foreign tongues were spoken, what did this mean? The key which will unlock the purpose and significance of the gift of tongues is found " in the law."
Isaiah 28 is not the only passage in the Old Testament which deals with the significance of foreign tongues. Several such passages together set forth a very sobering Biblical principle-a principle which has been demonstrated repeatedly in history. To discover the significance of tongues in the Old Testament, the following important passages must be considered: Genesis 11, Deuteronomy 28, Jeremiah 5, Isaiah 28 (cited by Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:21), and Isaiah 33.
Years earlier God had caused foreign tongues to be spoken and heard as a judgmental sign to the nation Israel (Acts 2; 10; 19, etc.). For those Jews who were familiar with their Old Testament, the sounds of foreign tongues gave no cause for rejoicing! Tongues were a sign of Gods curse, not of Gods blessing. Tongues signified a coming invasion, and conveyed an ominous message of rebellion, judgment, and dispersion. When God spoke in tongues, the Jews understood the message (Isaiah 28:11; 1 Corinthians 14:21). The gift of tongues was a sign-gift, given to an unbelieving, Christ-rejecting nation: "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not" (1 Corinthians 14:22).
When did tongues cease? If foreign tongues were really a sign of coming judgment upon the nation Israel, then once this judgment had come, the sign-gift would no longer be necessary. Any Jew who knew his Old Testament should have recognized foreign tongues as a solemn warning of coming judgment. Once the judgment had come, the warning sign was no longer needed!
God graciously waited four decades following the crucifixion of His Son (Israels rejected Messiah) before He brought final judgment upon the nation. But in 70 A.D. the Romans under General Titus brought the Christ-rejecting nation to its final ruin. Ever since A.D. 70 there has been no question that Israel as a nation is under the judgment of God. The Jews have been forced out of the land. They have been scattered and persecuted throughout the world. It is obvious that God is no longer working through His chosen nation. His program has now shifted and Gods witnesses are among all nations. The Jews are out of the land, a definite sign that they are now under Gods curse (cf. Deuteronomy 28).
In every nation where they have been scattered they constantly hear foreign tongues (Russian, German, English, etc.) as a continual reminder to them that they have refused the blessing and rest of God. Interestingly enough, not one book in the New Testament was written in the language of the Jews. Not only did God shift from Israel to the Church, but He also shifted from Hebrew to Greek as the language through which He would give His Word! God has not cast away His people Israel (Romans 11:1), but He has cast them aside for a time. The final and ultimate event which marked Israels judgment was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., an event that was predicted by our Lord forty years before (Matthew 23:38; 24:2).
Therefore, it must be concluded that the gift of tongues as a sign-gift was no longer needed after 70 A.D. Tongues must have ceased on or before 70 A.D. The last historical mention of the gift of tongues is in 1 Corinthians which was written about 55 A.D. There is no evidence historically that the genuine gift of tongues ever occurred after 70 A.D. Tongues served their purpose, and tongues ceased, even as God had predicted through the Apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 13:8). Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe (1 Corinthians 14:22).
Zoomer said:If no one can understand you what is the point. Also if tongues is a gift, wouldn't people be blessed no matter what congregation they attended, but it seems to be limited to Penecostal/Spirit filled churches.
How do you know it was from God?Read the following: http://www.middletownbiblechurch.or...ues/tongues.htm which shows that the gift of tongues has ceased!wonder111 said:it happened to me about 2 months before I had even heard of it, and I can't explain how incredible it was, I knew it was from God. My conscious mind was wondering what was happening but my spirit was moved...there was so much love and it was very powerful
You understand wrong. I am sorry but there is no pleasant way to put it! There is no such thing as praying in tongues if you think there is then prove it to me by using scripture. i.e. show me where the Holy Bible talks of a prayer language?wonder111 said:from what I understand there is speaking in tongues (prophesy) and praying in tongues. The prayer language is what bypasses our limited understanding and is a prayer that only God understands because it comes from our spirit. That is used for edifying and is great for the individual believer.. but I agree if it doesn't bless others it's not that important
You have yet to offer even ONE scripture that says the gift of tongues has ceased while you have been given scripture repeatedly showing that tongues as a prayer language is also valid. But you haven't reponded with anything but canned opinion.AV1611 said:You understand wrong. I am sorry but there is no pleasant way to put it! There is no such thing as praying in tongues if you think there is then prove it to me by using scripture. i.e. show me where the Holy Bible talks of a prayer language?
In The Charismatics John MacArthur states seven reasons why "tongues" means "languages" here are five:
1. The Greek word 'glossa" primarily means human language when used in scripture.
2. Also used here is the Greek word "dialektos" from which we get the English word "dialect".
3. The same term for language is used later in the Book of Acts and in 1 Corinthians 12-14.
4. 1 Cor 14:21 indicates that tongues were a foreign language given as a sign to unbelieveing Israel.
5. 1 Cor 14:27 indicates a genuine language since it was to be translated.
AV1611 said:You understand wrong. I am sorry but there is no pleasant way to put it! There is no such thing as praying in tongues if you think there is then prove it to me by using scripture. i.e. show me where the Holy Bible talks of a prayer language?
.
This is talking about prayer in general! Not a specific prayer language that some humans can speak!!wonder111 said:"Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Romans 8:26).
I think you are a little confused. The gift of tongues is Biblical and it is precisely the supernatural ability of speaking in different languages. After His ressurection Our LORD issued a commission saying "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." (Mark 16: 15-18) This passage is spoken to the disciples ONLY! The passage continues..."So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."Holly3278 said:Speaking in tongues is not Biblical. It is actually a thing called Glossalia that even Mormons, Atheists, and Agnostics have been observed doing. I believe that the tongues in the Bible in Acts was merely the apostles speaking in different languages by the power of God to help spread the Gospel to those who didn't speak Aramaic. Then again, maybe it never happened.
Such arrogance!! In drawing conclusions about the nature of God and what He is doing in our lives, is experience or what the Bible says more important?The answer is "what the Bible says"! There was a woman who rang into a Christian talkshow in the US and she said that she had taught her dog to praise the LORD in an unknown bark. And a woman gave a testamony whereby she thanked God for healing her tire!! Experience can be decieving but the Bible is Truth and the Bible says that the gift of tongues ceased!!wonder111 said:well because of what happened to me, that's proof enough
I know it exists without a doubt
Quite the contrary! And I will explain...But before I do I recommend you buy or at least read the John MacArthur Comentary on 1 Corinthians as he explains it better than I. Regarding 1 Cor 14:14. Here paul is saying if I pray in a [self-manufactured] tongue, my [breath] prays, but my mind is unfruitful. It certainly seems impossible that spirit here refers to the Holy Ghost. If Paul was speaking of the Holy Ghost in relation to my spirit, then he was also speaking of the Holy Ghost in relation to my mind. The HG could not be praying through a person while bypassing his mind and he could not be saying that the mind of the HG sometimes can be unfruitful. To interpret spirit as the Holy Ghost confuses the whole passage...see the commentary for more details!wonder111 said:ok, see it as you will, but I don't understand why you are so angry
1 Corinthians 14:14
"For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind."
1 Cor 14:2 "For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries."
this is clear what he's saying
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?