Speaking in Tounges

JVD said:

but I am beginning to question the salvation of many of the leaders. I think their faith may be misplaced.

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AC 2:21 And everyone who calls

on the name of the Lord will be saved.'


JOEL 2:32 And everyone who calls

on the name of the LORD will be saved;



AC 2:21 And everyone who calls

on the name of the Lord will be saved.'


rOMANS 10:13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Sascha Fitzpatrick said:

OOOPS! Didn't realise it was a quote!!!

Sorry oworm! Bad Sasch!

Sasch

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ah thats ok Sach ,you obviously got confused over who said what which is understandable when things get a bit heated!!

oworm said:

AC 2:21 And everyone who calls

on the name of the Lord will be saved.'


JOEL 2:32 And everyone who calls

on the name of the LORD will be saved;



AC 2:21 And everyone who calls

on the name of the Lord will be saved.'


rOMANS 10:13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

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So...if a person says they are a christian and "calls on the name of the Lord" to be saved, they can say and do anything and we shouldn't speak up and say they are wrong?

So...if a person says they are a christian and "calls on the name of the Lord" to be saved, they can say and do anything and we shouldn't speak up and say they are wrong?

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No, but we shouldn't doubt their salvation (unless they are blatently sinning John 1:5 -2:5)

This was the post that started this part of the discussion:

Originally Posted by: JVD
but I am beginning to question the salvation of many of the leaders. I think their faith may be misplaced.

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You know...we are all sinners. I believe we should all question our own salvation occasionally, if only to reaffirm our faith and our understanding of the fact that salvation comes from God, not from ourselves.

I also believe we should question our leaders, and look to the word to confirm their teaching. Obviously, I am not given the authority to judge whether a person is saved or not. However, I can question whether a person who is saved would manipulate God's people the way some of these leaders do.

So I am not making the judgement, but I am asking the question.

So many of God's children, who have a childlike faith and a real yearning to know more of God are manipulated by the leaders into how they can have the experiences. They accept the leaders words without question and are led into an experience that they are told is of God, they have the experience and "feel good" and then build their faith on that experience and on those leaders.

I am not as much of a biblical scholar as I hope to become but I have read in the bible in Corintians(don't have it handy now so I can't say exactly where)"I would rather have ,a prophet,speak five intelligable words than ten thousand in tounge.This tells me that or lord would prefer that we use words which all can understand.It is not for me to determine who can or can't and when it ceased or will cease but I believe that tounges was used in earlier biblical times and not meant for congregations today.Beware of false prophets.

AV1611 said:

I beg to differ. If you are all saying that it does exist then surely you should be able to shew me the Biblical references that it is for today and has not ceased?

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Mark 16:17
And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues

It's in red....Jesus said it...

What evidence do you have that the sounds that come out of peoples mouths today are the "new tongues" spoken of by Jesus.

The "new tongues" likely were languages new to the speaker. Even if they were not new earthly languages and were some type of angelic language (that as far as I know we have no example of in the bible),they do not sound like a language. I have not heard any linguist who says that they can get anything out of it other than babble.

So people have an emotional experience and begin to babble, someone tells them it is the biblical tongues...does that make it so?? Other cultures and religions have similar experiences and babble in the same way.

There really is nothing to go on that would lead one to say that the current babble being practiced are the "new tongues" of which Jesus spoke.

Only you know if your "other tongue" is real or not. I was skeptical for a long time. And it even kinda freaked me out and made me uncomfortable. I believe that there is a time and place for prayer in tongues and that it should not be a chaotic or disruptive occurance in the church. That seems to defy scripture, to me. Here's my thing though. When in doubt leave it up to God to deal with those that are not behaving Biblically. I don't ever want to be one that says "THAT IS NOT OF GOD!" and be wrong. God reveals to us in time who is genuine and who is not, as long as we are living in accorance with His word.

JVD said:

What evidence do you have that the sounds that come out of peoples mouths today are the "new tongues" spoken of by Jesus.

The "new tongues" likely were languages new to the speaker. Even if they were not new earthly languages and were some type of angelic language (that as far as I know we have no example of in the bible),they do not sound like a language. I have not heard any linguist who says that they can get anything out of it other than babble.

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Then if there is no angelic language in the Bible then explain the last part of Revelation 19:12
12His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

I wasn't going to get into this but when you say there is no example of an angelic language when there seems to be. I mean if no one knows the name written except Himself (Jesus) then what language is it written in.

Only you know if your "other tongue" is real or not. I was skeptical for a long time. And it even kinda freaked me out and made me uncomfortable.

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How is it that you know it is real.

I believe that there is a time and place for prayer in tongues and that it should not be a chaotic or disruptive occurance in the church. That seems to defy scripture, to me.

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OK...

Here's my thing though. When in doubt leave it up to God to deal with those that are not behaving Biblically. I don't ever want to be one that says "THAT IS NOT OF GOD!" and be wrong.

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I previously thought this way. However, I now realize that we do need to speak up in the church when something is leading our fellow believers away from God.

God reveals to us in time who is genuine and who is not, as long as we are living in accorance with His word.

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How?

Then if there is no angelic language in the Bible then explain the last part of Revelation 19:12
12His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself

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You know...you have a point here. I never thought of this verse before.
One interpretation would be that this was a heavenly language. I can see other interpretations, but this does seem to be a reasonable way to look at it. However, it still does not tell us anything about how the language sounds.

On the other hand we do have many instances in the bible where angels speak to humans. The humans always hear the words in thier own tongue. Perhaps the angels have the gift of tongues to speak in their angelic tongue and the hearers will hear in aramaic or whatever. I could go along with that. I can also go along with hearers today hearing the gospel in korean when the speaker is speaking in English. That would seem to make sense and meet many of the uses in the bible.

There is no evidence that the babbling that we currently hear is that angelic tongue. We don't know what that really sounds like. Of course is COULD be! But the only thing we have to go on is that people say they think it is.

So again, we have a nebulous interpretation and a nebulous definition. And on that foundation, we have the huge charismatic empire.

I believe that many have the Holy spirit moving in them so deeply that the Lord gves them that gift, all of us the ability to speak in tongues. ALso your pastor should be able to tell his congression what a person in his church spoke.

Thanks pammie

i have spoke in tounges before.. im not sure if it is for today..if we even need it.. i have grown alot in christ ..i want to study his word more..to see if it is for our time... thats all i can say about this ..at this time.. study it out .. thats what im going to do..

"study it out" is always the best idea, I think. From the verses I've seen speaking in tongues seems to be primarily for ones private prayer life and for the worship service, if it's interpreted. On it's own, SIT's seems to do wonderful things for the believer spirtually. So from what I've seen in the scripture I think it is a valuable part of the modern Christian's 'tools.'

I believe exactly what the Bible says in the whole book of I Corinthians 14. Everyone who is reading this right now should pick up their Bibles and read it!

I Cor. 14 is basicaly saying that there is really no reason for it and here are the reasons given:

When we worship as a congregation we are doing it for God, yes, but also so that those around us will be beter able to uplift Him in prayer as well. (vs.16 & 17--"If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.)
Unless it is being interpreted so that the church (vs. 12--"Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church" ) and the person praying (vs. 14--For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.") can have a reason to be built up, then there are more important gifts that should be used. (vs. 19--Paul says:"I would rather speak 5 intelligible words to instruct others that 10,000 words in a tounge.")

The "tounges" is not what God wants to be emhasised, but the prophecy. (vs. 23-25--So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that your are out of your mind? But if someone comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner...he will fall down and worship God"

If it should be done at all, then rememer that God is a God of order (vs.33--"For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace.") and therefore, only a couple of people should do it during a service (vs. 27--If anyone speaks in a tounge, 2-or at the most 3-should speak one at a time"), and it should only ever be done if it is interpreted for the people listening (vs. 27 & 28--"...and someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet...).

Hope that gives a clear picture of where I stand on the issue. I have been in only a couple of services where there was speaking in tounges. The interesting thing for me was that I was just interested in what was going on around me and therefor distracted from praising God myself. My husband on the other hand for some strange reason known only to God fallen asleep (literally!) and missed it all, and my (teen-aged) sister who didn't know much about it at all got very scared. I don't think it was of any use, just as I Cor. warns about. After all of this, I have to say that I actually believe the "gift is now used in the way of people actually learning and translating in different languages for the purpose of reaching others for Christ in a language other than thier first.---Anyway, my 2 cents.

oworm said:

That implies then that those who are not cessationists are not Christians

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Does it?

Crystal_Dawn said:

Mark 16:17
And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues

It's in red....Jesus said it...

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Shall speak with new tongues - Shall speak other languages than their native language. This was remarkably fulfilled on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:4-11.

This Mark commission has been fulfilled see: Mark 16:20 "And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen." Who were the them? Ah yes the Apostles...

RadG said:

Then if there is no angelic language in the Bible then explain the last part of Revelation 19:12
12His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

I wasn't going to get into this but when you say there is no example of an angelic language when there seems to be. I mean if no one knows the name written except Himself (Jesus) then what language is it written in.

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That no man knew but he himself - This cannot here mean that no one could read the name, but the idea is, that no one but himself could fully understand its import. It involved a depth of meaning, and a degree of sacredness, and a relation to the Father, which he alone could apprehend in its true import. This is true of the name here designated - "the Word of God" - the "Logos" - Λόγος Logos; and it is true of all the names which he bears.

pammiew said:

I believe that many have the Holy spirit moving in them so deeply that the Lord gves them that gift, all of us the ability to speak in tongues.
Thanks pammie

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