Speaking in tongues.

[Svt4Him]

baw-bel'
From H1101; confusion; Babel (that is, Babylon), including Babylonia and the Babylonian empire: - Babel, Babylon.


God is not the author of confusion,


Love in Christ, sarah

You're post's meaning confused me, so that means...

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

So if someone has a word in tongues, all of a sudden someone starts singing then you can say singing is out of order?

Please consider and apply these verses:-
"the spirit of the prophets are subject to the prophets" and "let all things be done decently and in order" (1 Cor. 14:32, 40)

There's your answer!

 

[prisca1]

1 Corinthians 14


1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. (teach)

2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue(foreign language) speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
(unkown to the hearer until taught)

3But he that prophesieth(teacheth) speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues(bi-lingual) but rather that ye prophesied (teacheth also) for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
(interpret it or take an interpretor with you)

"God is not the author of confusion."
*******************************************
Greek-(2084)tongues:heteroglossos- a foreigner, man of other tongue

Greek-(1100)tongues:glossa- the tongue, a language

"except he intrepret"
******************************************
Hebrew(03932+4)stammering:law-ahg- have in derision, laugh to scorn, mock (on), stammering.

(3934) lah-ag a buffoon; also a foreigner;-mocker, stammering.

(3497) to speek in a foreign tongue, strange language.

(3932) law-ag:-(as in imitating a foreigner) to speek unintelligibibly:-have derision, laugh (to scorn), scoffing-derision, scorn(-ing)

Babyl. Mystery Babylon the Mother of Harlots.
(babyl-confusion)


Acts 2:6

6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
(understood that penticostal tongue, 'cloven' tongue meaning more then one, not babyl)


7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
(they UNDERSTOOD them completely, not babyl)



They UNDERSTOOD them, right down to the very dialect from the towns they were born in.

"understood them....no confusion here, no babyl."

Is tongues here yet? When will we speek with tongues that ALL will UNDERSTAND???
Mark 13:9 (King James Version)



9But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
TESTIMONY

Matthew 24:14 (King James Version)


14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
"A WITTNESS"

Luke 21:12 (King James Version)



12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 AND IT SHALL TURN TO YOU FOR A TESTAMONY.


So is "tongues here yet?".................I think not!

They are delivered up to anti-christ. Is anti-christ here yet?.........I think not

God dont like it!!!

 

[Svt4Him]

Please consider and apply these verses:-
"the spirit of the prophets are subject to the prophets" and "let all things be done decently and in order" (1 Cor. 14:32, 40)

There's your answer!

Please also consider the fact that it is not always in the middle of a sermon that someone jumps up and yells a word in tongues. Please also consider that 'let all things' includes speaking in tongues. It is no different than a prophetic word in church, and can be done in order.

 

[whatfor]

I am confused here.
Why are people saying that interpreters must be present.?
I was under the impression there were three gifts of tongues, praying, speaking and interpretation.
I pray in tongues , I have not spoken words to anyone in tongues or interpreted tongues.

For those who say we focus to much on that gift, I feel I use it when praying, but also when worshipping and using other gifts, I can't explain this well but I feel it enhances the other gifts.

 

[Svt4Him]

There is a difference between speaking on tongues as a prayer language and speaking in tongues in the church setting. If you speak in tongues in church, and you do not interpret, then the message is not for the church, and no one is edified but you. If you speak in tongues as a prayer language, you are praying to God, and no one understands, and you are edifying yourself.

"except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying"

Prisca1, if the tongues is a language, why is interpretation a. needed b. a gift. If I speak Greek, and a word comes in Greek, I do not need a gift of interpretation to translate. And the word clearly says that if there is none other to translate, the one speaking should. So if I speak a word in Greek and know Greek, I am again not using a gift of interpretation to translate it. As a matter of fact, I don't even need to interpret it, I simply need to translate it. Seems silly then to include the gift of interpretation as a gift if your understanding is correct doesn't it?

 

[prisca1]

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

And then shall the end come!!!

It isn't even here yet!!!

We speek with that language when we are delivered before the spirious messiah.(note lower case 'm')

I understand completely why this is difficult for you to absorb in your minds....but...the time is short and I cannot afford to be to easy on everyone anymore. I have to just get to the point and spit it out because I have no other choice.

Alot of people have the 'spirit.' I grew up a 'preachers kid' they dont have to tell me about what I wittnessed my whole childhood. It was confusing and it was also frightening. It would turn into a contest of who could 'interpret' supposedly the best.

It's like the Russion guy that questioned this doctrine strongly and he said ' I walked into a church and stood up in the middle of the service and opened my Bible and started to read in my Russian 'tongue' and it was so impressive sounding about 5 different people stood up and tried to 'interpret' it and one always overpowers everyone else and wins and told this long nice sounding message 'FROM GOD' and he closed his book and walked out never to return telling himself as he walked out the door 'well, I guess that proves my point because I was reading from God's word and that's not what I said at all.'

He was smart. "My people are 'sottish'. Do you know what 'sottish' means in the Hebrew? Maybe you should look it up and ask yourself if Father God does not EXPECT us to be wiser then the serpents and soft as a dove. But some times....even Paul spoke with authority...it got him exicuted too. The TRUTH has never been popular. nothing new under the sun. Was Christ's message popular?
They are steeped in the 'traditions of men' and that NOT of God.
The prophet Jeremiah stood outside then places of worship and all but begged them by the 'word of God' "Come out of her" come out of 'Babyl" but instead they liked and even requested to babyl. So let them babyl still. It is written in his word that they would because they LOVE IT!!!
Well, Almighty God is about to poor out His cup of wrath and I want to be sure I'am on the winning team and know FOR SURE if something is right or wrong.
Ever traced the roots of 'Easter.'? Did you know 'Easter/Ishtar" is not in the Bible. A translater that was up to no good 'slipped in there.?
It's okay....any truly biblically literate person can catch that that is a mistranslation but that holiday is still practiced and has been infiltrated into christianity.
Do some homework and go take a look to the origin of 'Ishtar'. How it ties in with the 'Marti Gra even.
Oh ya, people love it though....gotta have there pagan holidays dont they. Dont want to upset the so called 'higher critics',
You all make them document it for you or you are following a pagan tradition and God does not like it I promise you and there will be a penalty to pay.
"robbing my people for hand fulls of barley and pieces of bread.' Money, money, money.
Passover wasn't good enough for them. Look it up in the Bible if you dont believe me about baking bread to the Queen of Heaven. It was a massive orgy is what it was....well if the warfare in the last days is a spiritual one....then I guess they are commiting spiritual adultrey to teach and practice it. I'am not talking about eating boiled eggs as a matter of fact I may have one for dinner, I like boiled eggs....I'am talking about engaging in things....what are supposed to be our feast days...and turning them into Easter/Ishtar the Goddess of 'whatever' pretty much....the many breasted statue/bust still stand to this day over there....indicating many 'spiritual' lovers and provoking all mighty God to ANGER! he's tired of it! And all you here today is 'you dont need to understand the book of revelations' were gonna be gone in the 'rapture' because there too afraid of God's wrath. Well, he's gonna poor out his wrath all right and he 'hates'...I said...he 'hates' those that teach the people to fly to save there souls.
It's a lie....


Ezekiel 13


1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
GOD SPOKE TO ME TODAY(oh really, are you even biblically literate?)

4O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
5Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

THE BATTLE IN THE DAY OF THE LORD? IT"S A SPIRITUAL BATTLE/WARFARE/ THE LORDS DAY FIRST DAY OF THE MILLINIUM/ GET OUT YOUR GOSPEL ARMOUR/THE WORD OF GOD/THIS WORD THE BIBLE

6They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
CONFIRM THE WORD.......PROPHECY FALSELY INTERPRETER

7Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
8Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
I DONT LIKE IT/I"AM AGAINST YOU

9And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
THATS SERIOUS/NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK....why?

10Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
PEACE? WHO COMES IN PEACEABLY? DOES HE COME FIRST? ANTI-CHRISTGot a topic going here...subject/object

11Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it. (ruarch=Holy Spirit) CHURCHES/SPIRITUAL WARFARE

12Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?
WHO'S GONNA SAVE YOU NOW?

13Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.

14So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
ALL FALL TOGETHER/BELIEVED THE "TRADITIONS" AND NOT HIS WARNING. STOP BELIEVING JUNK....it's nonsense....I never taught you that ...he's saying here.

15Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;

16To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.
VISIONS OF PEACE? WE'RE NOT GONNA BE HERE, WE'RE GONNA BE GONE, GONE! ......it's gonna be okay, we're going bye bye in the sky, peace, peace......................... Oh really?

17Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
PROPHECY OUT OF THERE OWN HEARTS/NOT THIS WORD/GOD'S WORD TELLING YOU IT AINT GONNA BE THAT WAY

18And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
SOUL HUNTING/REVIVALS/.....why do they need reviving? The word of God should be sufficiante if they were really studying they would find out alot of truth's.

19And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
MONEY/MONEY/MONEY

20Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR TO YOU? THE SOULS THAT YE HUNT TO MAKE THEM FLY????

(kerchiefs to bind and wrap about the head so they cannot see the truth....no eyes to see....no ears to hear)

21Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
MY PEOPLE WONT BE HUNTED....why? They got eyes to see and ears to hear. They recognised good and sound doctrine and took hold of it like there most precious possession when they heard it...God's elect......do you have eyes to see? Do you understand this? Then you may be elect.)

22Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

PROMISING THEM EVERLASTING LIFE IF THEY BELIEVE THEY WILL FLY AWAY! FLYING RIGHT INTO THE ARMS OF ANTI-CHRIST BECAUSE HE COMES FIRST! Read 2 thess 2 it will document it for you...."until there comes a falling away first, first, first, first, first ..... not after Christ returns ........THATS A LIE!!!

23Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

MY PEOPLE

(making the hearts of the righteous sad whom I have not made sad....it does make us sad that people wanna believe that unbiblical junk.....it's not even in the Bible or scriptural...that is a lie to say that it is)

 

[zeke37]

Are most charismatic churches...pre trib?

 

[Svt4Him]

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

And then shall the end come!!!

It isn't even here yet!!!

We speek with that language when we are delivered before the spirious messiah.(note lower case 'm')

I understand completely why this is difficult for you to absorb in your minds....but...the time is short and I cannot afford to be to easy on everyone anymore. I have to just get to the point and spit it out because I have no other choice.

Alot of people have the 'spirit.' I grew up a 'preachers kid' they dont have to tell me about what I wittnessed my whole childhood. It was confusing and it was also frightening. It would turn into a contest of who could 'interpret' supposedly the best.

It's like the Russion guy that questioned this doctrine strongly and he said ' I walked into a church and stood up in the middle of the service and opened my Bible and started to read in my Russian 'tongue' and it was so impressive sounding about 5 different people stood up and tried to 'interpret' it and one always overpowers everyone else and wins and told this long nice sounding message 'FROM GOD' and he closed his book and walked out never to return telling himself as he walked out the door 'well, I guess that proves my point because I was reading from God's word and that's not what I said at all.'

He was smart. "My people are 'sottish'. Do you know what 'sottish' means in the Hebrew? Maybe you should look it up and ask yourself if Father God does not EXPECT us to be wiser then the serpents and soft as a dove. But some times....even Paul spoke with authority...it got him exicuted too. The TRUTH has never been popular. nothing new under the sun. Was Christ's message popular?
They are steeped in the 'traditions of men' and that NOT of God.
The prophet Jeremiah stood outside then places of worship and all but begged them by the 'word of God' "Come out of her" come out of 'Babyl" but instead they liked and even requested to babyl. So let them babyl still. It is written in his word that they would because they LOVE IT!!!
Well, Almighty God is about to poor out His cup of wrath and I want to be sure I'am on the winning team and know FOR SURE if something is right or wrong.
Ever traced the roots of 'Easter.'? Did you know 'Easter/Ishtar" is not in the Bible. A translater that was up to no good 'slipped in there.?
It's okay....any truly biblically literate person can catch that that is a mistranslation but that holiday is still practiced and has been infiltrated into christianity.
Do some homework and go take a look to the origin of 'Ishtar'. How it ties in with the 'Marti Gra even.
Oh ya, people love it though....gotta have there pagan holidays dont they. Dont want to upset the so called 'higher critics',
You all make them document it for you or you are following a pagan tradition and God does not like it I promise you and there will be a penalty to pay.
"robbing my people for hand fulls of barley and pieces of bread.' Money, money, money.
Passover wasn't good enough for them. Look it up in the Bible if you dont believe me about baking bread to the Queen of Heaven. It was a massive orgy is what it was....well if the warfare in the last days is a spiritual one....then I guess they are commiting spiritual adultrey to teach and practice it. I'am not talking about eating boiled eggs as a matter of fact I may have one for dinner, I like boiled eggs....I'am talking about engaging in things....what are supposed to be our feast days...and turning them into Easter/Ishtar the Goddess of 'whatever' pretty much....the many breasted statue/bust still stand to this day over there....indicating many 'spiritual' lovers and provoking all mighty God to ANGER! he's tired of it! And all you here today is 'you dont need to understand the book of revelations' were gonna be gone in the 'rapture' because there too afraid of God's wrath. Well, he's gonna poor out his wrath all right and he 'hates'...I said...he 'hates' those that teach the people to fly to save there souls.
It's a lie....


Ezekiel 13


1And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
GOD SPOKE TO ME TODAY(oh really, are you even biblically literate?)

4O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
5Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

THE BATTLE IN THE DAY OF THE LORD? IT"S A SPIRITUAL BATTLE/WARFARE/ THE LORDS DAY FIRST DAY OF THE MILLINIUM/ GET OUT YOUR GOSPEL ARMOUR/THE WORD OF GOD/THIS WORD THE BIBLE

6They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
CONFIRM THE WORD.......PROPHECY FALSELY INTERPRETER

7Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
8Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.
I DONT LIKE IT/I"AM AGAINST YOU

9And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
THATS SERIOUS/NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK....why?

10Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
PEACE? WHO COMES IN PEACEABLY? DOES HE COME FIRST? ANTI-CHRISTGot a topic going here...subject/object

11Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it. (ruarch=Holy Spirit) CHURCHES/SPIRITUAL WARFARE

12Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?
WHO'S GONNA SAVE YOU NOW?

13Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.

14So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
ALL FALL TOGETHER/BELIEVED THE "TRADITIONS" AND NOT HIS WARNING. STOP BELIEVING JUNK....it's nonsense....I never taught you that ...he's saying here.

15Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;

16To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.
VISIONS OF PEACE? WE'RE NOT GONNA BE HERE, WE'RE GONNA BE GONE, GONE! ......it's gonna be okay, we're going bye bye in the sky, peace, peace......................... Oh really?

17Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
PROPHECY OUT OF THERE OWN HEARTS/NOT THIS WORD/GOD'S WORD TELLING YOU IT AINT GONNA BE THAT WAY

18And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
SOUL HUNTING/REVIVALS/.....why do they need reviving? The word of God should be sufficiante if they were really studying they would find out alot of truth's.

19And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
MONEY/MONEY/MONEY

20Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
DOES THAT SOUND FAMILIAR TO YOU? THE SOULS THAT YE HUNT TO MAKE THEM FLY????

(kerchiefs to bind and wrap about the head so they cannot see the truth....no eyes to see....no ears to hear)

21Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
MY PEOPLE WONT BE HUNTED....why? They got eyes to see and ears to hear. They recognised good and sound doctrine and took hold of it like there most precious possession when they heard it...God's elect......do you have eyes to see? Do you understand this? Then you may be elect.)

22Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

PROMISING THEM EVERLASTING LIFE IF THEY BELIEVE THEY WILL FLY AWAY! FLYING RIGHT INTO THE ARMS OF ANTI-CHRIST BECAUSE HE COMES FIRST! Read 2 thess 2 it will document it for you...."until there comes a falling away first, first, first, first, first ..... not after Christ returns ........THATS A LIE!!!

23Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

MY PEOPLE

(making the hearts of the righteous sad whom I have not made sad....it does make us sad that people wanna believe that unbiblical junk.....it's not even in the Bible or scriptural...that is a lie to say that it is)

Could you summarize this, as I again have no idea what you mean. If time is short, quit writing so much and highlight major points. Are you going on about tongues or the rapture?

 

[Svt4Him]

Are most charismatic churches...pre trib?

No. Well, I have no idea, but most are talking about what you should be doing today and not what is to happen tomorrow.

 

[icedtea]

Are most charismatic churches...pre trib?

yes.

 

[shuntmama]

Are most charismatic churches...pre trib?

Yes,


Love in Christ, sarah

 

[razzelflabben]

Wow! First things first. Calm down. Just because someone says that a specific teaching or practice in a church or denomination is wrong or bad, doesn't make the whole thing wrong or bad. It is specifically targeted at a specific part and even at that, it isn't everyone or everything about that particular thing. So let's try to sort it out with understanding and not emotion okay?

You have totally missed the point of that post, so it's best you do bite your tongue. Someone said they knew someone who had a friend who was married to a guy who was the uncle to a person who asked for tongues and got demon possessed. I don't really care how you define good or if you think it's best to be given the bread of life, demon possession is bad. So if someone goes to God asking for a gift, in your books if they get demon possessed, is that not receiving something bad?

I totally missed that post. I posted about a person I know personally who was demonized as the result of people "teaching her to receive the gift of tongues". Now I don't have a problem with just her being demonized, I have a problem with the concept of "teaching someone to receive a gift" of anything. It's a flawed concept from the beginning, one that had serious consequenced for her.

but let's look at what I was trying to say, you say I missed the point, I see two points here. 1. Not everyone who claims to come in the name of Christ does indeed come in the name of Christ. In other words just because I claim it to be biblical or a gift from God or other such claims doesn't mean it is. This is a biblical concept of which two references come quickly to mind. One directly talks about healing and other mircles preformed in Christ's name and yet He never knew them. The other that comes immediately to mind is where He says not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.
2. the second point I am making here is that the gifts God gives us are specific tailored to us, if we coerce them, beg for them, insist on them or any number of other things then they are no longer gifts from God. They become so many other things, but not a loving gift from God to us. Gifts are given freely, out of love, not through manipulation but through grace.

And you don't ask for a gift, that's great. But the Bible says to eagerly desire the best gift, it says to ask seek and knock, so it really means little on how we personally receive gifts from one another.

Your missing the point. It isn't wrong to ask for a gift, or even a specific gift when someone seeks to give you a gift. What is wrong is trying to manipulate or coerce a specific gift because of selfish pride. When you do this, then it is no longer a gift. All gifts, in order for them to be considered gifts must come freely, out of love, in the timing and place and way the giver chooses not the receiver. If the receiver calls all the shots, you have totally missed the point of what a gift is. All gifts, in order to be called gifts, are flowing out of the giver not the receiver. That is the point.

No I've read what you wrote about a discrepancy again and again. You say you hear people talking about how great the teaching is...I have never heard that. Is that a common thing you hear? Does everyone say it? Can you quote a thread here where someone says it? Otherwise it seems like a veiled attempt to redo a picture already painted. But that aside, there are times when my pastor teaches something amazing. I go to him and have even posted a thread before talking about the amazing thing I learned from my pastor. I don't really know if you are saying this is wrong or not, again I can't totally get the gist of what exactly the point is.

Okay, break this down.
First, I said very clearly that teaching is not a bad thing, that teaching is good. So before you go off on some tangent about something I didn't say, take time to find out what I did say. Teaching is a good thing. (more on the differences between what you are accussing me of and what I said in a moment)
Secondly, I already cut and pasted a quote from this very thread as evidence to what I am saying and so the burden of proof was met before you even read my post.
Thirdly, What I am talking about is the difference between teaching someone about something or teaching them how to have it. Let me try it this way. This weekend we had a show. At this show was a man who makes by hand, wooden spoons. Now we stopped to talk to him we admired his work and he gave us, free of charge the gift of a spoon. Now, he can teach us how to make a spoon but he cannot teach us how to make the spoon he gave us because it was already made. Now apply this understanding to tongues. WE can teach people what tongues is, how it is to be used, etc. all the things the bible already does, we can do. But we can't teach someone how to speak in tongues or how to receive the gift of tongues because both as as individual as we are. The gift of tongues as given by God is not duplicatable, it is taylored for each individual. The giver cannot be duplicated, He is as one of a kind. To try to step outside this understanding is to offer poor, and sometimes harmful copies of something that began as beautiful. That is the point as best as I know how to explain it at this point. It isn't a problem with teaching what the bible already teaches, it is a problem with stepping over the line and claiming that we can teach you how to coerce the spoon maker into giving you a spoon or how to manufacter an exact copy of the spoon the spoon maker gave. Neither are actual gifts of the spoon maker. Only the one exact one given out of his heart is the true spoon makers gift to us.

I also think you are saying if God wanted you to have this gift He'd tell you. Do you need more faith? Do you need to edify yourself in spirituals things? Would you want to do works for God like Paul did? If you answer yes to this, this is one why of helping. If you'd like me to post the verses let me know.

This sounds like you are talking to someone else, but let me see what I can offer.
I am saying that God knows us intimately, better than I know myself. If I truly believe this biblical concept, then all I need do is talk with God, tell Him my heart, seek to know Him and then trust that He is the good Father whose only hearts desire is to Love me with a pure and complete love. No coercion, no manipulation, no begging, just plainly and simply, a good Father Loving me with a pure and unconditional Love. God knows what gift I need and when I need it. When do we begin to trust in His goodness? When do we begin to accept His plan? When do we live by His design and no our own? Isn't that FAITH?

What, in the context of that verse, are all the things that pass away, and have they? Simple starting place.

Are you asking for my understanding? My personal understanding is that they will not pass away until the resurrection at which time we will be as worded in I Cor. 13 perfect as well as in the presence of perfection. What is you understanding?

 

[razzelflabben]

Haven't we already dealt with that one before? Tongues are for us to communicate with the Lord here and now. When Jesus comes again, and the perfect church of Christ is revealed, and we are having direct face to face fellowship with the Lord, would it be logical to still have tongues? Are you going to go up to the Lord Jesus Himself and speak to Him in tongues? Anyone with half a brain would be able to work that out!

But while the church is still on earth, in its imperfect state (and don't you tell me that the church is perfect at the moment. You know very well that it is not,) we have been given abilities in the Spirit to communicate with the Lord, for Him to communicate with us, and for us to do the will of God on earth. The next great event for us is the second coming of Christ. We are told in Scripture to occupy ourselves until He comes. Nothing about the gifts of the Spirit will change until then.

Now I have absolutely NO idea what you don't understand about my post, but it doesn't really matter apparently, so let me ask you this question, a question that is in direct relation to your post here. When we talk to God in heaven and fellowship with others there, what lang. will we all be speaking? English? French? Angels? The bible talks about the lang. of angels, a lang. todays church usually includes in thier understanding of tongues so I guess that would leave out the lang. of angels. Hum? does that mean we won't be able to talk with the angels? What lang. will we speak in heaven?

 

[razzelflabben]

There is a difference between speaking on tongues as a prayer language and speaking in tongues in the church setting. If you speak in tongues in church, and you do not interpret, then the message is not for the church, and no one is edified but you. If you speak in tongues as a prayer language, you are praying to God, and no one understands, and you are edifying yourself.

"except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying"

Prisca1, if the tongues is a language, why is interpretation a. needed b. a gift. If I speak Greek, and a word comes in Greek, I do not need a gift of interpretation to translate. And the word clearly says that if there is none other to translate, the one speaking should. So if I speak a word in Greek and know Greek, I am again not using a gift of interpretation to translate it. As a matter of fact, I don't even need to interpret it, I simply need to translate it. Seems silly then to include the gift of interpretation as a gift if your understanding is correct doesn't it?

I love questions and your post prompts a new one. What is the exact meaning of edifying? What is edification?

 

[prisca1]

Since the topic seems to be tongues....this is what I found


Dear Yahoo!:How many languages are used in the world today?Ahmed
MogadishuDear Ahmed:Well, let's see. There's French, Spanish, um, English...oh boy, we can already tell this is going to be a tough one. After all, what is a language? Do different dialects count? What about languages not widely used? With so many variables, we thought it best to stop counting and consult the experts.
This report by Stephen R. Anderson of the Linguistic Society of America explains how complicated the question really is. According to Anderson, estimates have risen steadily over time. A 1911 version of the Encyclopedia Britannica, for example, "implies a figure somewhere around 1,000." Throughout the century, that figure grew as experts broadened the "language" definition.
In his report, Anderson cites the Ethnologue organization. According to Ethnologue, there are currently 6,912 living languages, defined as languages that people speak today. Interestingly, the part of the world with the highest level of linguistic diversity is Papua New Guinea. The region has approximately 830 languages for around 5.4 million people. That's about one language for every 6,500 residents. Ethnologue also reports a total of 238 languages in the United States, 162 of which are "living." Those wondering why the country has never declared English its official language may finally have their answer.

Let's see what God's word says about tongues, after all He created them and us....

The Penticostal language that most 'charismatic church members claim they can speek and was given to them divinely by the Holy Spirit and God.



Acts 2


1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

(these 'cloven tongues'....'cloven' meaning more then one)


5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

They all UNDERSTOOD the language right down to the very dialect/accent of there home town.
All nationality's all languages and dialects of the world. That is what the 'cloven toungue' is. A UNIVERSAL language.
Alot like the language spoken before the Tower of Babyl when the languages were divided.
What this other 'nonsense' is I can assure you our Heavenly Father is not pleased with AT ALL.
That is all I was saying. They UNDERSTOOD the language/tongue.

That language(cloven tongues) will not be spoken again until the end and ONLY spoken when the saints are 'delivered up' to satan/anti-christ.

All I was saying is......it's not even here yet! Is anti-christ here yet? No! Has anyone been delivered up yet? No!

Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

(Ghost is a mistranslation and should be read 'Spirit' the 'Holy Spirit.')

 

[zeke37]

if most charismatic tongue churches are pre trib,

then there may be a connection....

 

[prisca1]

Edify-edification
Greek oi-ko-do-ma
1) (the act of) building, building up
2) metaph. edifying, edification
a) the act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, happiness, holiness
3) a building (i.e. the thing built, edifice)



Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 18
AV — edifying 7, building 6, edification 4, wherewith (one) may edify 1

 

[razzelflabben]

Edify-edification
Greek oi-ko-do-ma
1) (the act of) building, building up
2) metaph. edifying, edification
a) the act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, happiness, holiness
3) a building (i.e. the thing built, edifice)



Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 18
AV — edifying 7, building 6, edification 4, wherewith (one) may edify 1

SO edifying is to grow. So when you speak in tongues you are actually growing spiritually or growing the church? or is it tickling ears, from this definition, I could read it as either. growing or building up as in boasting or braging. Growing I want to do, bragging on myself or the church would remove humility would it not? That would be non scriptural. So again we come to the question, what is edification? to edify?

 

[shuntmama]

Ephesians 4


1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20But ye have not so learned Christ;
21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27Neither give place to the devil.
28Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


To spread the Truth, is to edify The Church,



Love in Christ,sarah