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Speaking in tongues.

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AllTalkNoAction

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1Co:14:4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

To edify is to build up:-

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost (Jude 20)

Speaking/ praying in tongues is praying in the Holy Spirit.
People that don't do it cannot understand how it works . .


But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory . . . But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:7, 14)
 
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shuntmama

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Acts 5:42
And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. You edify the Church by speading the Good news. Teaching the Gospel Truth. Jesus is the head of the Church, (We must lift him up, and lay our own wants and needs aside) Glory and honor goes to the one that hung on the cross and died for our sins. Jesus is the Living Word, We all must strive to understand the Gospel, to accept that God's Word is True, when we accept that the Word is True then we have recieved the Holy Spirit. I pray that all come into the full knowledge of the Truth. Love in Christ, sarah
 
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zeke37

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1Co:14:4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

To edify is to build up:-

and here, Paul is teaching us that when we come together to share scriptures and Psalms and the Gospel, we are supposed to be edifying others, not ourselves...

many take this as a positive, when it is a negative...

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost (Jude 20)

Speaking/ praying in tongues is praying in the Holy Spirit.
People that don't do it cannot understand how it works .

I disagree...praying in the Spirit is praying in His will...not yours... with God and God's plan in mind...because you love Him and wanna help His children...

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory . . . But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:7, 14)

The Spirit is not tongues...
The Spirit is what teaches us, guides us, convicts us...not speaking an ecstatic tongue...

we should not take scripture out of order and read it together...people might get the wrong idea...

and implying that the charismatic ecstatic tongue is the wisdom of God is not scriptural or supported in real life...for God is not the author of confusion...the charismatic tongue is not a gift of God...1Cor14 and Acts2 are not speaking of the same thing at all...

1John4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

God's speech doesn't sound like barbarian speech...it sounds like Thunder...

in His service
c
 
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VCViking

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The Spirit is not tongues...
The Spirit is what teaches us, guides us, convicts us...not speaking an ecstatic tongue...

we should not take scripture out of order and read it together...people might get the wrong idea...

and implying that the charismatic ecstatic tongue is the wisdom of God is not scriptural or supported in real life...for God is not the author of confusion...the charismatic tongue is not a gift of God...1Cor14 and Acts2 are not speaking of the same thing at all...

1John4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

God's speech doesn't sound like barbarian speech...it sounds like Thunder...

in His service
c


Well put.
 
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Svt4Him

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The Spirit is not tongues...
The Spirit is what teaches us, guides us, convicts us...not speaking an ecstatic tongue...

we should not take scripture out of order and read it together...people might get the wrong idea...

and implying that the charismatic ecstatic tongue is the wisdom of God is not scriptural or supported in real life...for God is not the author of confusion...the charismatic tongue is not a gift of God...1Cor14 and Acts2 are not speaking of the same thing at all...

1John4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

God's speech doesn't sound like barbarian speech...it sounds like Thunder...

in His service
c
Really? So God can't whisper He's always Thunder? Sometimes He's in the quiet places just as much as the loud. The Charismatic gift is a gift from God, not the wisdom of God. And your verse on 1 John has nothing to do with tongues, which is ironic as you just said not to take scripture out of order. Tisk tisk.
 
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Svt4Him

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Wow! First things first. Calm down. Just because someone says that a specific teaching or practice in a church or denomination is wrong or bad, doesn't make the whole thing wrong or bad. It is specifically targeted at a specific part and even at that, it isn't everyone or everything about that particular thing. So let's try to sort it out with understanding and not emotion okay?

Wow, you read emotion in my post? Amazing.

I totally missed that post. I posted about a person I know personally who was demonized as the result of people "teaching her to receive the gift of tongues". Now I don't have a problem with just her being demonized, I have a problem with the concept of "teaching someone to receive a gift" of anything. It's a flawed concept from the beginning, one that had serious consequenced for her.

Someone got deamonized by a teaching and you don't have a problem with it? And your example on teaching is just as flawed as saying you can't teach people about God or teach them the to repent. You can't grant them repentance, but you can teach. I fail to see how that's flawed from the beginning.

but let's look at what I was trying to say, you say I missed the point, I see two points here. 1. Not everyone who claims to come in the name of Christ does indeed come in the name of Christ. In other words just because I claim it to be biblical or a gift from God or other such claims doesn't mean it is. This is a biblical concept of which two references come quickly to mind. One directly talks about healing and other mircles preformed in Christ's name and yet He never knew them. The other that comes immediately to mind is where He says not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.

How is this relevant?
2. the second point I am making here is that the gifts God gives us are specific tailored to us, if we coerce them, beg for them, insist on them or any number of other things then they are no longer gifts from God. They become so many other things, but not a loving gift from God to us. Gifts are given freely, out of love, not through manipulation but through grace. Your missing the point. It isn't wrong to ask for a gift, or even a specific gift when someone seeks to give you a gift. What is wrong is trying to manipulate or coerce a specific gift because of selfish pride. When you do this, then it is no longer a gift. All gifts, in order for them to be considered gifts must come freely, out of love, in the timing and place and way the giver chooses not the receiver. If the receiver calls all the shots, you have totally missed the point of what a gift is. All gifts, in order to be called gifts, are flowing out of the giver not the receiver. That is the point. Okay, break this down.

So are all Christians given a gift of faith? If so, are you saying it's no longer a gift? And if we to exercise our gift of faith, it's become so many other things?
First, I said very clearly that teaching is not a bad thing, that teaching is good. So before you go off on some tangent about something I didn't say, take time to find out what I did say. Teaching is a good thing. (more on the differences between what you are accussing me of and what I said in a moment)
Secondly, I already cut and pasted a quote from this very thread as evidence to what I am saying and so the burden of proof was met before you even read my post.

I am talking about a general theology, not a random quote.
Thirdly, What I am talking about is the difference between teaching someone about something or teaching them how to have it. Let me try it this way. This weekend we had a show. At this show was a man who makes by hand, wooden spoons. Now we stopped to talk to him we admired his work and he gave us, free of charge the gift of a spoon. Now, he can teach us how to make a spoon but he cannot teach us how to make the spoon he gave us because it was already made. Now apply this understanding to tongues. WE can teach people what tongues is, how it is to be used, etc. all the things the bible already does, we can do. But we can't teach someone how to speak in tongues or how to receive the gift of tongues because both as as individual as we are. The gift of tongues as given by God is not duplicatable, it is taylored for each individual. The giver cannot be duplicated, He is as one of a kind. To try to step outside this understanding is to offer poor, and sometimes harmful copies of something that began as beautiful. That is the point as best as I know how to explain it at this point. It isn't a problem with teaching what the bible already teaches, it is a problem with stepping over the line and claiming that we can teach you how to coerce the spoon maker into giving you a spoon or how to manufacter an exact copy of the spoon the spoon maker gave. Neither are actual gifts of the spoon maker. Only the one exact one given out of his heart is the true spoon makers gift to us. This sounds like you are talking to someone else, but let me see what I can offer.

So a gift of prophecy can't be taught in a school? What about a gift of preaching? And where has someone stepped over a line by teaching about tongues, which line was crossed exactly and who put it there?
I am saying that God knows us intimately, better than I know myself. If I truly believe this biblical concept, then all I need do is talk with God, tell Him my heart, seek to know Him and then trust that He is the good Father whose only hearts desire is to Love me with a pure and complete love. No coercion, no manipulation, no begging, just plainly and simply, a good Father Loving me with a pure and unconditional Love. God knows what gift I need and when I need it. When do we begin to trust in His goodness? When do we begin to accept His plan? When do we live by His design and no our own? Isn't that FAITH?Are you asking for my understanding? My personal understanding is that they will not pass away until the resurrection at which time we will be as worded in I Cor. 13 perfect as well as in the presence of perfection. What is you understanding?

I agree 100%. Even when asking for a gift, we don't need to manipulate or beg. And God knows what gifts you need, that's why He told us to seek those gifts and encouraged us to speak in tongues. You don't have to ask if you need a gift of faith, if you don't have it, you are not a child of God.
 
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shuntmama

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Revelation 10


1And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
2And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
5And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
8And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
9And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.



Love in Christ, sarah
 
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shuntmama

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Isaiah 8


1Moreover the LORD said unto me, Take thee a great roll, and write in it with a man's pen concerning Mahershalalhashbaz.
2And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah.
3And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz.
4For before the child shall have knowledge to cry, My father, and my mother, the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria shall be taken away before the king of Assyria.
5The LORD spake also unto me again, saying,
6Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly, and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah's son;
7Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks:
8And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.
9Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.
10Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.
11For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,
12Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
13Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
16Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
17And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
18Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
19And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
21And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward. 22And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.




Love in Christ, sarah
 
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shuntmama

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  1. Revelation 22:18
    For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
  2. Revelation 22:19
    And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book
Love in Christ, sarah
 
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The Spirit is not tongues...
The Spirit is what teaches us, guides us, convicts us...not speaking an ecstatic tongue...

we should not take scripture out of order and read it together...people might get the wrong idea...

and implying that the charismatic ecstatic tongue is the wisdom of God is not scriptural or supported in real life...for God is not the author of confusion...the charismatic tongue is not a gift of God...1Cor14 and Acts2 are not speaking of the same thing at all...

1John4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

God's speech doesn't sound like barbarian speech...it sounds like Thunder...

in His service
c

This is merely speculation. You cannot prove that the present day use of the gift of tongues in the Pentecostal/Charimatic churches is not the gift of tongues that Paul taught in 1Cor14.

You say that the present day use of tongues is of the devil. You have not provide one jot of evidence to support your theory.

Actually the overwhelming evidence through Scripture, the teaching of the early church fathers, and the testimonies of thousands and thousands of good, genuine believers is that the present day use of tongues is really from the Holy Spirit, and is a blessing to those who use it and for their churches.

Of course, little Johnnie, marching out of step with all the others, thinks he's the only one in step. Have you considered that you might be out of step with the Holy Spirit on this issue?
 
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razzelflabben

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A couple of interesting things to note here, to help us with our biblical understanding of tongues and edification.
Ephesians 4


1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord,
(BTW, my husband and I did a search and found this to be translated OF not For, interesting concept to think about) but I digress.
beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocationwherewith ye are called,
Is tongues a vocation?
2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Note the key here is Love and Unity. What unity prevails on the topic of tongues and how does the bible tell us to find unity?
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Note this clue to finding unity, even on a board or thread like this one.
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Note He is the gift giver, not man, therefore you cannot teach someone the gifts of which we are not even yet talking about tongues here.
9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
please note that none of these are tongues. Therefore the passage cannot be speaking of tongues. In fact, if we review those listed, we see that all are given for the purpose of some kind of growth. therefore, at least in this passage, it would appear that edifying means to grow. To build up as in mature. Only problem is, we still don't see tongues mentioned.
13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Note again that pesky unity things.
14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Wow! Pretty clear, that edify means to grow and that our authority is Christ. Therefore no matter what we want to believe, it is only what the bible says that we can believe. Therefore according to this passage (more later) we cannot call tongues edifying as in growing. WE'll look for other passages and biblical meanings.
16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
I didn't point this out earlier but note here how vital love is from the start to the finish.
17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20But ye have not so learned Christ;
21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
How is this growth achieved? By the transforming power of God, not by tongues or prophecy or teachings, but by the putting away of the old man and putting on the new man.
25Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27Neither give place to the devil.
28Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
now this is the first place we see anything about talking at all, and nothing is mentioned here about tongues but rather communication. That is all kinds of communication. Communication being two way street. Not a monolog as tongues would be.
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


To spread the Truth, is to edify The Church,



Love in Christ,sarah
But we aren't done yet, the definition according to strongs used here is
1) (the act of) building, building up
2) metaph. edifying, edification
a) the act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, happiness, holiness
3) a building (i.e. the thing built, edifice)

Notw 2 a, the act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, happiness, holiness...............the same as we find in the text. To grow.

Seems pretty clear here that edify in this passage is to grow and is not including tongues. (well get to tongues just have to do it according to scripture not our whims or traditional teachings.
 
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razzelflabben

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1Co:14:4: He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

To edify is to build up:-

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost (Jude 20)

Speaking/ praying in tongues is praying in the Holy Spirit.
People that don't do it cannot understand how it works . .


But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory . . . But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor. 2:7, 14)
Oh dear one, let us look at the whole passage and agument of Paul

1follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.[b] First thing to note is this is prayer tongues, therefore, not tongues during service where interprution occurs, but let's forget about that for a moment because there is more discussion about other tongues. 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. Note here that tongues is for self edification, unless there is an interpretor which we get to in a moment. Now we still don't know if this edification is growing or puffing up. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[c] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[d] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.Here is that interpretation we are talking about thus we are talking about all tongues. From which we can conclude that tongue edifies self, interpretation edifies the body. A distinction that we need to be careful to make. 6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church. note that not all tongues are edifying, only those that speak mysteries of God with interpretation. Hum, how many instances of tongues would that eliminate from edification? Apparently some or Paul wouldn't have stated that it is an important distinction.

13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. Now question for all, how do we grow if our mind does not grow along with our spirits? Do we not need some kind of understanding? 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. Paul answers this by saying both are necessary, spirit and mind. therefore this tongues that no one including yourself can understand is not edifying anyone, including yourself. It is only tongues with understanding that edifies. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand[e] say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.Note even Paul is not quick to speak tongues in group. Important note to make when we talk about tongues in the church. Paul is reluctant to speak them because the line of edification is fine but distinct.


One more thing, I have no idea how I Cor. 2 fits your argument, it is talking about spiritual things, not tongues. Please help out here. what is your point. How does it fit the argument you are trying to make?
 
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razzelflabben

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Wow, you read emotion in my post? Amazing.



Someone got deamonized by a teaching and you don't have a problem with it? And your example on teaching is just as flawed as saying you can't teach people about God or teach them the to repent. You can't grant them repentance, but you can teach. I fail to see how that's flawed from the beginning.
If I had no problem with it, why would I bring it up and critisize the practice that invited the demon in? As I said before, teaching the things in scripture is cool, I'm down with it, I approve, I say, "go to it", how many other ways can I say it before you get it. But the bible doesn't tell us how to recieve the gift of tongues, where do you see Paul saying, here is how you recieve the gift of tongues from God. His teaching is anything but. Therefore I say the same. We teach tongues as Paul did, what it is, how it is to be used, but not how to recieve it, recieving a gift from God does not need taught. That is the point. time and time and time again we see evidence that tongues in the mainstream charasmatic church is being taught different than the biblical teaching because it is teaching how to receive the gift not what the gift is and how to use it properly. If all we were teaching was the bible, I wouldn't have any issue, but we aren't.



How is this relevant?


So are all Christians given a gift of faith? If so, are you saying it's no longer a gift? And if we to exercise our gift of faith, it's become so many other things?


I am talking about a general theology, not a random quote.


So a gift of prophecy can't be taught in a school? What about a gift of preaching? And where has someone stepped over a line by teaching about tongues, which line was crossed exactly and who put it there?


I agree 100%. Even when asking for a gift, we don't need to manipulate or beg. And God knows what gifts you need, that's why He told us to seek those gifts and encouraged us to speak in tongues. You don't have to ask if you need a gift of faith, if you don't have it, you are not a child of God.[/quote]
 
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razzelflabben

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This is merely speculation. You cannot prove that the present day use of the gift of tongues in the Pentecostal/Charimatic churches is not the gift of tongues that Paul taught in 1Cor14.

You say that the present day use of tongues is of the devil. You have not provide one jot of evidence to support your theory.

Actually the overwhelming evidence through Scripture, the teaching of the early church fathers, and the testimonies of thousands and thousands of good, genuine believers is that the present day use of tongues is really from the Holy Spirit, and is a blessing to those who use it and for their churches.

Of course, little Johnnie, marching out of step with all the others, thinks he's the only one in step. Have you considered that you might be out of step with the Holy Spirit on this issue?
shall we follow scripture to find out who is out of step and who isn't?
 
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zeke37

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Really? So God can't whisper He's always Thunder? Sometimes He's in the quiet places just as much as the loud. The Charismatic gift is a gift from God, not the wisdom of God. And your verse on 1 John has nothing to do with tongues, which is ironic as you just said not to take scripture out of order. Tisk tisk.

maybe I should post it again my Canadian brother! It is about testing the spirits, because not all spirits are from God....

and since it is my contention that the ecstatic tongue is not of God, then perhaps the warning of 1John4:1 was indeed appropriate...

1John4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.




in His service
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zeke37

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Hi Oscar, please read the PM I sent you

This is merely speculation. You cannot prove that the present day use of the gift of tongues in the Pentecostal/Charimatic churches is not the gift of tongues that Paul taught in 1Cor14.

sure I can, without doubt....

in Acts, all understood what was coming out of the mouths of the disciples and those who were baptized with the Holy Spirit...all present regardless of where they came from or what specific dialect they spoke and understood themselves...they all understood the "Cloven tongue of fire" which is the Holy Spirit Himself speaking a language that ALL understand..

1Cor14 actually teaches us how to spread the word to the different nationalities and cross the language barrier with the help of gifted multi-lingual interpreters...

Your understanding of the charismatic tongue does not line up with Acts, because no one can understand what is being said when mumbled(charismatically spoken)
no one can learn truth from mumbling....and they were not mumbling in Acts were they?

You say that the present day use of tongues is of the devil. You have not provide one jot of evidence to support your theory.

No, I say that the present day use of the charismatic tongue can be from the devil (demonic in nature)....or just from otherwise good folks own mind....or the use of tongues can be from a con-man...who is simply out for power or money...

I do find it rather interesting that the majority of charismatic churches are pre trib!

That tells me something right there, so I would absolutely say that 1John4:1 is appropriate...

Actually the overwhelming evidence through Scripture, the teaching of the early church fathers, and the testimonies of thousands and thousands of good, genuine believers is that the present day use of tongues is really from the Holy Spirit, and is a blessing to those who use it and for their churches.

Prove it....The early church fathers would never have even heard of the charismatic tongue, let alone used it...that is humorous...it was not a practice until very recently...

Of course, little Johnnie, marching out of step with all the others, thinks he's the only one in step.

well Johnny, perhaps you should prove your practice with the bible....and since nothing in your practice lines up with either Acts or 1Cor14, perhaps you should be heeding the advice yourself...Johnny.

Have you considered that you might be out of step with the Holy Spirit on this issue?

absolutely....and I prayed about it, used the bible to prove what I believe and what I follow, and low and behold.....me and the Spirit see eye to eye on this one.....cause what you mumble is not coherent and God is not the author of confusion....thus if we did what you do, we would sound like barbarians....and no one else would be edified...they can not understand you...

in His service
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zeke37

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A couple of interesting things to note here, to help us with our biblical understanding of tongues and edification.
(BTW, my husband and I did a search and found this to be translated OF not For, interesting concept to think about) but I digress. Is tongues a vocation? Note the key here is Love and Unity. What unity prevails on the topic of tongues and how does the bible tell us to find unity? Note this clue to finding unity, even on a board or thread like this one. Note He is the gift giver, not man, therefore you cannot teach someone the gifts of which we are not even yet talking about tongues here. please note that none of these are tongues. Therefore the passage cannot be speaking of tongues. In fact, if we review those listed, we see that all are given for the purpose of some kind of growth. therefore, at least in this passage, it would appear that edifying means to grow. To build up as in mature. Only problem is, we still don't see tongues mentioned. Note again that pesky unity things. Wow! Pretty clear, that edify means to grow and that our authority is Christ. Therefore no matter what we want to believe, it is only what the bible says that we can believe. Therefore according to this passage (more later) we cannot call tongues edifying as in growing. WE'll look for other passages and biblical meanings. I didn't point this out earlier but note here how vital love is from the start to the finish. How is this growth achieved? By the transforming power of God, not by tongues or prophecy or teachings, but by the putting away of the old man and putting on the new man. now this is the first place we see anything about talking at all, and nothing is mentioned here about tongues but rather communication. That is all kinds of communication. Communication being two way street. Not a monolog as tongues would be. But we aren't done yet, the definition according to strongs used here is
1) (the act of) building, building up
2) metaph. edifying, edification
a) the act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, happiness, holiness
3) a building (i.e. the thing built, edifice)

Notw 2 a, the act of one who promotes another's growth in Christian wisdom, piety, happiness, holiness...............the same as we find in the text. To grow.

Seems pretty clear here that edify in this passage is to grow and is not including tongues. (well get to tongues just have to do it according to scripture not our whims or traditional teachings.


IMO, you have misunderstood the poster....she is not a believer or follower of the charismatic tongue:wave:

she is just showing relevant scripture....which you expounded correctly...(just keeping the team together...lol)

in His service
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