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speaking in tongues?

Discussion in 'Bibliology & Hermeneutics' started by jayebrownlee, Nov 11, 2002.

  1. Yes, every Christian should be able to speak in tongues.

  2. Yes, some Christians will be given the gift of tongues.

  3. No Christian should ever speak in tongues.

  4. What is tongues?

  5. Unsure

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  1. shout2thelord

    shout2thelord adopted aussie :)

    well there is a lot hear to read and i need to get on with my work. Though Speaking in tongues was often evident when people where filled with the Holy spirit. I do think that every christian should be able to pray in tongues but i agree that you have to accept the gift and that God gives us things at different times. so ur not any less of a christian if u cant.
  2. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

    "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." If we take the whole thing we find that Paul is telling us we only know in part NOW but when that which is perfect is come (with Jesus, the Father, heaven) we wont need tongues, and our partial knowledge well be perfect or complete. We need to remember that we should never seek after the gifts. The gifts will follow when the word of God is preached.  We can not forget that Jesus said to 'whosoever believes...signs will follow". The gifts come from God not the Apostles. :)
  3. jesusbball23

    jesusbball23 New Member

    Other Religion
    I've seen 'no' evidence of the Gifts being present right now.

    The Apostles were the only group of people chosen by God that could pass the gifts on for others to use. But other had the gifts because the apostles gave it to them.

    - When the Apostles passed away, and every disciple that had the gifts passed away, the gifts passed away too. If you read Acts, only the Apostles 'Passed down' the gifts for others to use. And Tongues were ecstatic utterances, just languages. Read the greek.
  4. Huldrych

    Huldrych Kein typischer Amerikaner

    It's true, that in 1. Corinthians, it says that the gifts will cease, but I don't think that should ever be read as having already ceased. Using the same line of reasoning, you could say that Christ has already returned.

    I do believe the gifts will pass away, and I believe that same chapter in 1. Corinthians says when: when the perfect is come. A good part of the chapter talks about going from imperfection to perfection, from immaturity to maturity. And I take that as saying that when this perfection has manifestly come to the Body of Christ, then there will be no further need for the gifts.

    But looking at the state of the Church right now, it seems pretty obvious that we still have a lot of growing up to do, and need all the help we can get right now.

  5. Follower of Christ

    Follower of Christ Literal 6 Day Creationist<br />''An Evening and a

    "It has always been my understanding that God gives gifts we NEED according to each situation that we are in and does not just give us the gifts we WANT. "

    You nailed that one right.
    You will. no doubt, come across much opposition to this stance. but rest assured, it IS scriptural.
    If you read the book of Romans, you will see everything needed for your salvation and understanding. Not to diminish the importance of the rest of the Bible, but Romans is a quick guide for any one wanting to get an overview of Christianity (from the gentile perspective)

    The best thing to do is read and listen to lots of sources. THEN pray and study your heart out.

    Also. obedience to God is an absolute ingredient to learning.
    I asked for the answer to the tongues issue and for 10 years it plagued me.

    Then about 4 years ago I asked a pastor about whether or not my long hair was a sin Because of;

    "Does not even nature itself teach you that if man has long hair, it is a shame to him? "
    (1 Corinthians 11:14 MKJV)

    He said "wouldnt you just want to be sure you're not offending God?
    So I cut it short.
    You know that within the week I was literally slammed with the answer to the tongues issue and a dozen or so others.

    The answer to tongues is in the Books of ACTS, JOEL, Hebrews, Romans, 1 Corinthians and some other references.
    Take the information as a WHOLE, not just one or two verses.

    Also, when someone tells you that you MUST speak in tongues OR that there are 2 different kinds of tongues, INSIST that they show YOU the chapter and verse where this IS STATED PLAINLY.
    God is NOT the author of confusion. Nor is He trying to keep His followers in the dark. I have had my share of people looking for signs, instead of just having faith in God.
    Don't get caught up in theatrics.
    Keep your faith simple and true, and you will not fail.

    And by the way, I DO believe the gifts are all still used today.
    I have personally witnessed pastors and others faking tongues AND prophecy.
    I have also witnessed the real thing.

    "Jehovah says, Behold, I am against the prophets who use their tongues and say, He says. Jehovah says, Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams, and tell them, and cause My people to go astray by their lies, and by their frivolity. Yet I did not send them nor command them. And they will not profit this people at all, says Jehovah. "
    (Jeremiah 23:31-32 LITV)

    We must ALL be sure that we do not do as the Corinthians did, and err against our God in an attempt to take a gift that He has not granted us.
  6. Alabare

    Alabare New Member

    :clap: There are 2 types of speaking in tounges. one is used for prophesy or to deliver a message from God. This type of tounges is stricktly a gift that not everyone has been given.
    the second type is an intercession The bible teaches that we don't even know what to pray for. and who knows the mind of man like his spirit. it is likewise with the mind of God. It is for this reason that the Holy Spirit will interceed with our spirit to pray with moans and utterances that no man can teach.
    The first is for edification of the church.
    the second is for edification of ourselves.
    I am a one God, Apostolic, tounge talken, heven bound beleiver in the liberating power of Jesus name.
  7. Scribe

    Scribe New Member

    Most Views expressed on this subject will&nbsp;claim the Bible for their resource but often they will not attempt to post it all here because of time and format.&nbsp; I would suggest you read "Jon Ruthven.&nbsp; On the Cessation of the Charismata: The Protestant Polemic on Post-Biblical Miracles"&nbsp; Jon Ruthven is a true scholar and as scholarly as B.B. Warfield who wrote Cessation of the Charismata. However, even though Warfield spoke strongly about going to the Bible as the source for doctrine, Warfield leans on experience and abuses he has seen&nbsp;to disproove modern charismata, whereas Ruthven used a true hermeneutical and honest examination of all the scriptures to prove that charismatic gifts in the NT were ordained by God with a purpose and are still originating from God to fulfill that purpose. The most common argument against the use of charismatic gifts is that "nothing should take the place of the Bible" but that was not the original intent of Charismatic gifts and it still is not. Those that suggested that the gifts were given to take the place of the Bible until it was completed did not get that from the Bible. The Bible makes no such statement about the gifts. It says their purpose was to edify the church not take the place of the Bible. Paul tells them to judge all things and we argue that Paul would expect them to judge all gifts in the light of scripture with the measuring stick of love. This still stands today.&nbsp;

    Concerning the gift of tongues. When you read the accounts you will see that there is a pattern that the gift of tongues seems to be present most often.&nbsp; The fact that so many of the Corinthians were speaking in tongues out of order suggests that it was a common gift among them.&nbsp; The fact that Paul said I would that you all spoke in tongues suggest that they all could.

    The REASON, &nbsp;in my opinion, that all saints should recieve the gift of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and the gift of tongues is that it will help that saint in these areas.

    1) teach him how to step out in faith and be used by the Holy Spirit in ministry

    2) help him to stay "in the spirit" and not in the flesh as it relates to daily living

    3) increase his faith to be used by God in other Gifts that require greater faith to walk in.

    4) help him to pray for others concerning the needs of saints

    5) and the idea behind the tongue being used is significant in that it will help the saint learn the critical lesson of how to use his natural language only for edification when he is not speaking in tongues.&nbsp; The mystery of this "first" gift is that if a man will learn to speak only life he will be a vessel useful for God. (if a man learns not to offend with his tongue the rest of his body will line up with the spirit man)

    6) It was prophesied that tongues would be a sign and so the manifestation of the gift of tongues is a sign that The spirit is upon you. (not that those that do not have this gift do not have the Spirit, but they do not yet have the Baptism of the Spirit for ministry)

    7) those that minister without the Gift of The Baptism of the Holy Spirit and practice the gift of tongues do not have the same dynamic anointing in their ministry that is not associated with intellectualism or trained arts, but is that anointing that only comes from being touched by the supernatural Holy Spirit power of God.&nbsp; Many can witness and lead others to Christ without this gift, but those that do pray in tongues will find that their ability to recall the RIGHT scriptures for the moment and to speak exactly what God wanted for that moment is Greatly increased after the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and the practice of much praying in tongues.&nbsp;

    I have scriptures for all of these thoughts and I would wager that if you guess which ones I would use if asked that many of you know which ones they are. such as "Tarry here in Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high... and then you will be witnessed unto me.. AFTER THAT the power of the Holy Ghost is come upon you.. etc

    And you know that they spoke in tongues when the Power of the Holy Ghost came upon them.&nbsp; Therefore using only this one example and not going through all of the above mentioned points, I could say that if I were to take the stand that I only want to do it the Bible way and pray until I am baptized in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues before I go witnessing.. then I am more Sola Scriptura than the man that says this is not for us today.&nbsp; He may have his explanations but I choose not depart from the text.

    In That Day we will know which was closer to the meaning of the text. I have faith that I am on safter ground if I reject longwinded explanations and just do it the way I see it in Acts.

    Therefore when I read all the references on tongues and try to draw a conclusion on all of them together, since I see all types of chrsitians praying in tongues and not just apostles, I find that I have faith in my heart to believe that God wants me to pray and speak in tongues also. When I read Paul say "what then I will pray (and sing) in the spirit (tongues according to the verse preceding) and with my understanding (natural language) " I cannot help but say ME TOO. I am convinced that every reader of the scriptures who has experienced a rebirth in Christ should say ME TOO! when they read those words of Paul. If this does not happen in your heart and mind when you read those words from Paul then I don't know what to say. I just cannot imagine having any other kind of response but..."Lord if you did that for them you can do that for me... I believe you will...Amen"&nbsp; If some theologian however educated he might be tries to explain it away, all his explanations are vanquished by looking back at these texts and reading them again.

    When Paul says "Do all speak in tongues" The context has to do with the way that the Corinthians were speaking in tongues out loud with that commanding presence of ..."Listen to me" and such a demonstration of tongues must accompany an interpretation so that others will after having listened be edified by the exhortation.

    This is not going to be manifested by all. Two or three at the most and in turn, is suffecient and orderly for a common service.

    But that does not mean All cannot have the gift of tongues as seen In Acts that came upon ALL of them in each story given.

    In those instances ALL of them spoke in tongues. The scripture contrasts praying in tongues to yourself and to God, and speaking publically in church in tongues as two different purposes according to Paul in 1 cor 14.

    In 20 years of ministry I have concluded that what I learned the first month of being baptised with the Holy Spirit and that is that those that would receive the gift of tongues will for the most part recieve it by reading the Bible only and those that do not want this gift will not recieve it no matter how many books they read about the subject.&nbsp;

    I have found that those that have not made up their minds and have an honest desire for the truth will agree that God had a purpose for giving the gift of tongues and they fear God too much to malign it in anyway.

    Those that are afraid of what others will think of them find relief in a "logical" (at face value only) explanation that will "release" them from any obligation to request this "misunderstood" gift. They are terrified at the idea of speaking in tongues and looking like a "wierdo" These people will find it very easy to accept a teaching that tongues were only for them back then.

    It's as if they are thinking.. "I am glad I did not live then. I would not want to speak in tongues."

    Instead.. even if they beleive that tongues have ceased, their heart should swoon with exitement and joy when they read Acts 2 and they should think.. "WOW.. I wish I had been there". But I would suggest based on countless conversations with those that do not believe in this gift that they do NOT wish they were there and are quite relieved at the concept of living in a day where such things are nonexistant.

    Think about it. If they believed that these things were still available for today they would feel obligated to pray for them. And what if God granted them. What if God wanted them to speak in tongues or give and interpretation in church. These people I have spoken to so often would rather die than do such a thing. It is no wonder that they find it convienient to believe they have ceased. They cannot bear the concept of what would be required of them if these gifts were active.

  8. scuba_steve83

    scuba_steve83 One God Jesus Name

    1Cor13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

    1Cor13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

    1Cor13:10 But WHEN WHICH IS PERFECT IS COME, then that which is in part shall be done away.

    Has Jesus come back yet? No. Therefore, the gifts are still there. Furthermore, I have experienced gifts myself and witnessed them as well. Anyone who disagrees ought to take their head out of the sand and accept that we serve a LIVING God. He is a God among the LIVING, not the dead. Praise Jesus! :)

    As for tongues, most people don't get this except Pentecostals I suppose, but tongues has THREE functions.

    1. It's the only evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit as SCRIPTURE shows. See Acts 2:1-4, 10:44-48, 19:2-6. That's NOT the gift of tongues by the way. That's the sign Jesus talked about in Mark 16:17. YOU don't speak in tongues to get the Holy Ghost. Instead, the Holy Ghost fills you and RIGHT THEN does the Spirit give you utterance to speak with other tongues. That does not teach you need to speak with tongues (the sign) to go to heaven, but it advocates you need the Holy Ghost baptism in order to go to heaven. Tongues is just the only evidence. Some might disagree, but if the Bible says it is so then it is so. I'm no one to oppose how God set the pattern! :)

    2. After receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, the gift of tongues is a gift you may or may not receive. It's not necessary to receive to go to heaven of course. 1 Cor. 12:30 asks, "Do all speak with tongues." Of course not, seeing this refers to the GIFT of tongues and the not the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. Tongues as mentioned in 1 Cor. 12:30 is listed amongst other spiritual gifts and 12:31 tells us to covet the best gifts, therefore validating my explanation that it is the GIFT of tongues being refered to here.

    3. Last, but not least, is the prayer tongue. The Holy Spirit makes intercession to help you pray for thing you know not to pray for. That's powerful stuff. I've experienced that many-a-time and it really draws you closer to God. For those who disagree, PLEASE give it a try. It really IS for you! :)

    1 Corinthians 14:14-15 says, "For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

    This is what Paul was referring to in Romans:

    Romans 8:25-28, "But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it]. Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with GROANINGS which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose."

    Groanings: "sigh, groan, murmer, pray inaudibly"

    Back to above verses: 14:16-18, "Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:"

    Notice the tongue is for giving thanks! (praising God, etc.)

    Whether it is public or private, it is to to be done in order.
  9. A Brethren IN CHRIST

    A Brethren IN CHRIST Well-Known Member


    you asked for verses

    here you go ....I have many member of family that believe in Tongues but verses jump out to me

    tongues if you have been able to do this this is call a sign but according 2 cor 5:7 for we walk by faith not by sight then add Heb 11:1 defines FAITH

    1 cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which beleive

    Acts 2:17-21 when does this happen? in the last days of what? Rev 6-19

    this prophesy did not happen in acts 2 this is future prophesy

    acts 2 speaking tongues is a sign of the Holy Spirit
    1cor 14 needs interpeters? why 1 cor 3:1-3 [Gal 5:16-17 gal 4:29 explain corinthians ]

    and they are forgetting John 13:34-35 the new commandment

    Thank God of romans 8:1 but remember gal 4:29
  10. Cubbs

    Cubbs New Member

    Ok I think I am way out-matched here but I'll throw in my two cents anyway. Basic hermaneutic rule is that you never create a doctrine based on an isolated passage. And context.

    How does this coincide with vv 23-24?
  11. A Brethren IN CHRIST

    A Brethren IN CHRIST Well-Known Member

    At that time there was no bible and a lot of gift where for the edification of believer to grow in the word of God even though there was NO BIBLE at that time ....

    the 1cor had diversities where believer in the body of Christ were saying 1 cor 12:15-21 which show that divisions with in this church and that is Gal 5:21 strife/divisions are works of the flesh not of GOD and according to Gal 4:29 Believers walking in the flesh is persecuting the spiritual believer.

    interpreter needed why though that tongue was a gift from God that everyone understood according to Act 2:5-11 with out interpeters

    Paul is telling them to walk by the spirit and love your brother....... open your eyes he is telling them
  12. nobdysfool

    nobdysfool The original! Accept no substitutes!

    Amen, Bro!

    It was not common practice in the Early Church (book of Acts) for Christians to not have the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. When one instance was learned of, the Apostles hustled right on over there and corrected it! Today, we have large numbers of Christians who have not received it, and have no idea what they're missing!

    In reality, I think many who oppose tongues do so because they intuitively know it will change them and they don't want to change. When you can pray in a language you don't know, it energizes your prayers, because you can pray for things you don't know how to pray for! It removes that feeling of helplessness when you hear of a great need, or somone you know is in trouble. The point of praying in tongues is that it is in accordance with God's Will, because it is the Holy Spirit that gives utterance. We all want to pray in God's will, don't we? Praying in tongues insures that!

    James teaches that the tongue is like the rudder of a ship. What you say steers the course of your life! Controlling the tongue is a life-changing thing, and yielding your tongue to the Holy Spirit is very life-changing, so much that it scares the daylights out of most people!

    I sometimes wonder if people really believe some of the hymns they sing? "Precious Saviour, Take My Hand (but not my tongue)....I Surrender All (except what I don't want to give up)....Rock of Ages, Cleft For me, Let Me Hide Part of Me in Thee...Doesn't work, does it? I think there is a good reason why God desires to Baptize people in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues: It is a surrender of the rudder of their life, the tongue, to Him. It will change them, empower them, and seal their salvation. We can't truly be saved only giving part of ourselves to Him, it's all or nothing, in the end!
  13. A Brethren IN CHRIST

    A Brethren IN CHRIST Well-Known Member

    Romans 8:26 groaning that can't be uttered

    Holy Spirit mentally communicate to Jesus and to the Father

    How many Gifts are there and who give that one gift to the Christian One God why so we can share are gift with other Christians not so that everyone speek in tongues

    the Last days why is there such a big deal that there is tongues, visions, prophesy, when the moon changes into blood and the sun into darkness

    think 1 cor 13:8 they quit before that time ...

    but you just keep doing what the corinthians were doing in 1cor 1:10-13,3:1-4,8:12,11:21

    did you read them not very nice...not very christ like were they.........

    Now that following the New Commandment in John 13:34-35 love aonother like christ loved you how did he do that Romans 5:8

    or are they DOING Gal 4:29
  14. The2Signs

    The2Signs New Member

    I've recieved tongues and I am also penecostal. It's just basically a gift from God. I love him for giving me the gift to have a one on one talk with him spiritually w/o the devil knowing what I'm talking about to him! It's very useful and everytime you use it it makes the spirit stronger. I'm not sure what I'm saying, but I'm praying to the lord so he may allow me through him to interpret my tongues.
  15. TasManOfGod

    TasManOfGod Untatted Saint

    Word of Faith
    I would like to suggest that the survey does not include the right question namely: "Yes all Christians who desire to should be able to speak in tongues"
    The reason is that speaking in tongues is not related to salvation but is dependant on it. It is evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit.
  16. BroDave

    BroDave Soldier of the Light

    My name is BroDave. I am new to this forum but this subject is of great interest to me. I do not believe that every Christian has the gift of speaking in tongues. As I have read on this posting page I have noticed that no one has pointed out that the "speaking in tongues" in Acts 2 MAY be different than other passages that speak of this gift, although that is not neccessarily true.
    As there are many parts of the "one Body" there are also many gifts and not all possess the same gifts.
    My problem is this......in my church part of the doctrinal statement says that one must speak in "tongues" as the initial evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. I have a very hard time with that one because in Acts 2:5-13, the tongues being spoken of there have nothing at all to do with what my church considers "speaking in tongues". In Acts the apostles were speaking the wonders of God to people of other nationalities and languages, not this that is commonly heard in Pentecostal churches today that is said to be "speaking in tongues". This is such a misconception of scripture, yet it seems that no one in these circles that claim to have this gift even care if what they are babbling is really that which they are basing on scripture!! Someone please give me some feed back on this because I am of the opinion that it is completely out of line in my church and they think they are being so holy when in reality they are far from it.
  17. set free in Christ

    set free in Christ New Member

    I disagree very much with your chruch. I am born again, teach adult sunday school, and do not have that gift. A church should not come and tell you what you need and don't. Let it be up to HIM to tell you what HE wants. I have a couple of friends that have the gift and that is it. To me it is no big deal. I would like to have it but I don't. It is a gift and HE gives it out where he sees fit. I do have other gifts and am happy with them.
  18. Debbi

    Debbi Member

    I've been in Pentecostal churches now for many years and the people are always talking about all these feelings and emotions and stuff alot. They talk about feeling God's love and His presence is so real. Something definitely is wrong with me, I have trouble feeling all that emotional stuff or feeling God's love like they talk about. Does having the baptism of the Holy Ghost cause you to be able to feel God's presence and love more than one who haven't fully received yet? Does it cause one to be alot more emotional and shout, run aisles? Does it mean you don't have the baptism of the Holy Ghost if you don't shout and run and pray alot and stuff? I got tired of trying to fit into others cookie cutter idea of what the Holy Ghost baptism is suppose to make you do. Does this make sense?

  19. A Brethren IN CHRIST

    A Brethren IN CHRIST Well-Known Member

    john 4:24 worship in spirit and truth

    eph 4:23 to be renewed by the spirit of your mind

    do you understand
  20. Debbi

    Debbi Member

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