SPEAKING IN TONGUES: Help make this the DEFINITIVE learning thread

[Presbyterian Continuist]

and an 80 year old report of a ministry's supposed healing practice
and charismatic tongues usage
is hardly proof.

and I'll add that the so called charismatic personal prayer language tongues (I hope that was a nice way of saying it)
are not ever mentioned at all in 1Cor12-14

Why I enjoy crossing swords with you is that you preserve respect and do not engage in personal attacks like some.

Now, concerning the 80 year old reports. I happened to know his pianist who toured with him in 1922 and 1927 when Smith Wigglesworth came out to New Zealand. He saw and witnessed the miracles that happened in New Zealand. Smith Wigglesworth was definitely no con man. He was an honest and upright man of God who had a unique ministry. My pianist friend, who was into his early 70s when I knew him in the late 1960s was no fool, and was a committed Christian would would well have been able to tell the difference between a genuine ministry and a con artist. He was as close to Smith Wigglesworth as anyone could get, and became his personal friend. Not the recipe for a con job. Do you have any personal Christian friends who you would recognise as con artists? If you were closely involved with someone who turned out to be a con artist, how long would it take you to recognise him as such if you were closely involved with him in ministry?

I have the volume of Smith Wiggleworth's complete works, including his sermons, and his ministry was full of exalting and glorifying Christ. Not the words of a con man.

 

[zeke37]

ok, np

 

[zeke37]

u raise a good point Oscar

would God grow / use a ministry that practices false tongues....
or that rips off the congregation???
or a minister that lies to the people????

ie. if tongues are not charismatic private prayer,
would God still heals through said ministry and grows their numbers large...

can this happen?

well, I've seen countless ministries grow and they are IMO false.
as said before, strait out con men.
and that goes for healings and tongues.

but God can still reach people through those ministries...
those ministries still preach Jesus....


here is my point...

if a thing is Holy to you, then who am I to say differently...
charismatic prayer tongues are obvioulsy Holy to you

but I must insist that they (charismatic prayer tongues) are not ever the subject of Paul's letter 1Cor12-14.

my direction is to show that tongues=languages (in this case of men), not private prayer

Paul did not even adress tongues as private prayer....
and I know we do not see eye to eye on this.


BUT, I reserve the right to understand "tongues" of 1Cor12-14 as langauges of men.
either understood or not understood....hence the need for interpreters/translaters

I say the gift of tongues is supposed to be used to spread the Word of God to all languages,
not private prayer...(which I see as the opposite)

 

[ARBITER01]

u raise a good point Oscar

would God grow / use a ministry that practices false tongues....
or that rips off the congregation???
or a minister that lies to the people????

ie. if tongues are not charismatic private prayer,
would God still heals through said ministry and grows their numbers large...

can this happen?

well, I've seen countless ministries grow and they are IMO false.
as said before, strait out con men.
and that goes for healings and tongues.

but God can still reach people through those ministries...
those ministries still preach Jesus....


here is my point...

if a thing is Holy to you, then who am I to say differently...
charismatic prayer tongues are obvioulsy Holy to you

but I must insist that they (charismatic prayer tongues) are not ever the subject of Paul's letter 1Cor12-14.

my direction is to show that tongues=languages (in this case of men), not private prayer

Paul did not even adress tongues as private prayer....
and I know we do not see eye to eye on this.


BUT, I reserve the right to understand "tongues" of 1Cor12-14 as langauges of men.
either understood or not understood....hence the need for interpreters/translaters

I say the gift of tongues is supposed to be used to spread the Word of God to all languages,
not private prayer...(which I see as the opposite)

That's your choice, as well as it has been my choice and countless others over the centuries to hear GOD on how the gift currently operates in the church.

You're welcome to try and change that all you wish. See if all your efforts make a dent.

 

[zeke37]

That's your choice,

thx

as well as it has been my choice and countless others over the centuries to hear GOD

how, charismatically?

on how the gift currently operates in the church.

says who, charismatics?

You're welcome to try and change that all you wish.

ty

See if all your efforts make a dent.

well, all Glory to God

 

[1611AV]

Can you show me a verse that illustrates someone praying in tongues? I do not speak in tongues but am interested in why people that do it, do it.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Can you show me a verse that illustrates someone praying in tongues? I do not speak in tongues but am interested in why people that do it, do it.

1 Cor 14:14-15
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
NASU

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

u raise a good point Oscar

would God grow / use a ministry that practices false tongues....
or that rips off the congregation???
or a minister that lies to the people????

ie. if tongues are not charismatic private prayer,
would God still heals through said ministry and grows their numbers large...

can this happen?

well, I've seen countless ministries grow and they are IMO false.
as said before, strait out con men.
and that goes for healings and tongues.

but God can still reach people through those ministries...
those ministries still preach Jesus....


here is my point...

if a thing is Holy to you, then who am I to say differently...
charismatic prayer tongues are obvioulsy Holy to you

but I must insist that they (charismatic prayer tongues) are not ever the subject of Paul's letter 1Cor12-14.

my direction is to show that tongues=languages (in this case of men), not private prayer

Paul did not even adress tongues as private prayer....
and I know we do not see eye to eye on this.


BUT, I reserve the right to understand "tongues" of 1Cor12-14 as langauges of men.
either understood or not understood....hence the need for interpreters/translaters

I say the gift of tongues is supposed to be used to spread the Word of God to all languages,
not private prayer...(which I see as the opposite)

The point that I am making is that none of the false ministries you mention would have the healing of terminal cancers, heart conditions, and raise people from the dead, as has been documented through the ministry of Smith Wigglesworth, if there was even the slightest hint of falsehood anywhere in that person's life or ministry; wouldn't you think?

Now, I would concur that these modern day TV ministries would say that they cause terminal conditions to be healed, but are they backed up with genuine medical records to say that the condition was terminal and untreatable before the healing took place?

I sat through years of healing ministry from visiting healing evangelists from all over the world, including some of the biggest names in the USA. I had friends with medical conditions who went up every time and they were not healed. Not one person, in my experience, was healed of a serious medical condition or disability in all those years. That was one of the reasons why I left the Pentecostal church in 1978, and I remained totally disillusioned about the healing ministry for many years afterward. So, yes, I have heard the sermons and the claims, but I have not seen the expected outcomes.

I believe if a notable healing happened in my city, it would be reported in the newspapers all over the country, and they would have to hire a football stadium for the next meeting by that preacher. The trouble is here, they get someone like Benny Hinn down here in New Zealand, and they hire the big stadium, and there is a lot of sound and fury with great crowds of people falling over, but there are no reports in the paper of anyone being totally healed of terminal cancer or a heart condition. So I know that there is a difference between fancy words and genuine results.

Why I mention Smith Wigglesworth, is that he came to Wellington NZ in 1922, and had 50 people at his first meeting in the Wellington Town Hall. In that meeting there were notable healings of real medical conditions with people getting out of wheelchairs, etc, and these healings were so real that they were reported in the local newspaper, and there were so many people turned up the next night, they had to turn people away. And this happened at every meeting. Of course, not all people got healed, but there were enough healings to cause a big stir in the general society, not just a few hallelujahs in an obscure Pentecostal church.

I have written an article about healing if you want to read it. You can find it at Why Some People Do Not Get Healed

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have read a few cessationist articles, and I have found a notable one where I have written an analysis of it. I think that it is appropriate for this thread because people need to see what cessationist believe, and also see one person's answer to those beliefs.

I understanding that no cessationist is going to be convinced of the genuineness of modern tongues by persuasion. We are going to discuss and debate the issues until doomsday without a satisfactory outcome. But it is fun trying.

Therefore my purpose is to educate people about the different views for people to do their own praying, and seeking God, to discern for themselves what is the right way for them.

Here are the links: IS THE CESSATIONIST VIEW CORRECT This my article which sets out my opinion.

An Analysis of the Article
This is my analysis of an article by a well known cessationist. Sorry if there are some strange symbols in it.

Happy Reading.

 

[1611AV]

1 Cor 14:14-15
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
NASU

Yeah, I see where he is asking about praying in tongues but not actually praying in tongues. And the verses prior to and after show no reason at all to do it.

The Bible does give us a clear illustration on how to pray

Luke Chapter 11:1-2 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven...

When asked how to pray Jesus spoke plainly, not in tongues.

So I guess I want to know why people do it. Is it something that just happens? Or is it something people are taught?

It's interesting to me that only people from certain churches do it.

Lord Bless,

 

[zeke37]

Originally Posted by 1611AV

Can you show me a verse that illustrates someone praying in tongues? I do not speak in tongues but am interested in why people that do it, do it.
​

1 Cor 14:14-15
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.
NASU

Yeah, I see where he is asking about praying in tongues but not actually praying in tongues. And the verses prior to and after show no reason at all to do it.

The Bible does give us a clear illustration on how to pray

Luke Chapter 11:1-2 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven...

When asked how to pray Jesus spoke plainly, not in tongues.

So I guess I want to know why people do it. Is it something that just happens? Or is it something people are taught?

It's interesting to me that only people from certain churches do it.

Lord Bless,

the surrounding text is relevant....for better understanding of what Paul was teaching us.

9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

(foreign languages...that get interpreted for the audiences edification/understanding.
a gifted interpreter can help a preacher bring the word into whole nations...
different tongues..even English eventually...hint, hint)

14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

(if the preacher preaches his psalm/scripture or his interpretations of psalms and scriptures,
but does so in his foreign to them in the audience's tongue,
then they listening would not get it...
the understanding that is in the preachers mind,
will not be passed on to them in attendance)

15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

(praying/singing with the Spirit
must be accompanied by understanding also...
else it is in vain.)

16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

same thought over and over again in the chapter...
the whole chapter has nothing to do with charismatic prayer tongues.
And everything to do with human languages,
either known or not known, depending on the context.


19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

the fact that we have the word in English
is a testament to the following of these rules set forth by Paul in 1Cor14
to bypass all language barriers with the help of other gifted individuals

nothing to do with charismatic prayer tongues.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Yeah, I see where he is asking about praying in tongues but not actually praying in tongues. And the verses prior to and after show no reason at all to do it.

The Bible does give us a clear illustration on how to pray

Luke Chapter 11:1-2 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven...

When asked how to pray Jesus spoke plainly, not in tongues.

So I guess I want to know why people do it. Is it something that just happens? Or is it something people are taught?

It's interesting to me that only people from certain churches do it.

Lord Bless,

Yeah, I see where he is asking about praying in tongues but not actually praying in tongues

I dont see a question at all . . .

1 Cor 14:14
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

I see a statement about what praying in tongues is, by itself.

And the verses prior to and after show no reason at all to do it.

Really?

1 Cor 14:13-17
13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. 16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?
NASU

Where?

The context is corporate worship . . . the only reason NOT to is if there is not an interpreter . . . but if there is . . . then there is plenty reason to pray in tongues. So I dont see what your driving at.

BTW, here:

1 Cor 14:17-19
18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind
NASU

Paul contrasts his "all the time" use with "in the church" so we see him praying in tongues regularly w/ no interpretation privately.

The Bible does give us a clear illustration on how to pray

Luke Chapter 11:1-2 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven...

That in no way contradicts the use of tongues in prayer.

When asked how to pray Jesus spoke plainly, not in tongues.

It is a matter of a better systematic brother, cause ridged concepts about the Lord's Prayer would mean you better ONLY ALWAYS PRAY THE LORDS PRAYER. Systematically, it is a MODEL for prayer, not a rote recitation. Because tho Jesus taught us this . . . the inspired text also teaches us this:

Rom 8:26
In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should,
NASU

AND gives us examples of prayer here:
Col 4:2-4
2 Devote yourselves to prayer, keeping alert in it with an attitude of thanksgiving; 3 praying at the same time for us as well, that God will open up to us a door for the word, so that we may speak forth the mystery of Christ, for which I have also been imprisoned; 4 that I may make it clear in the way I ought to speak.
NASU

where the Lords Prayer is NO WHERE NEAR THE CONTENT

1 Thess 3:10
10 as we night and day keep praying most earnestly that we may see your face, and may complete what is lacking in your faith
NASU

as well as here

Acts 1:24-25
24 And theyprayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25 to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."
NASU

and here we have the actual content spoken, which again is not the Lords Prayer at all

James 5:17-18
17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. 18 Then heprayed again, and the sky poured rain and the earth produced its fruit.
NASU

And here again we have EXAMPLE from the OT by a NT author, who surely knows the Lords Prayer, who points to Elijah favorably and the content is stopping and starting rain . . . I could go on . . . the saints gathered for prayer for the release of Peter . . . all the other citations of Paul and what he has been praying for the particular churches for . . . and Jesus Himself

Luke 22:31-32
31 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; 32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.
NASU

Where the ONE AND THE SAME WHO SAID HOW TO PRAY, does not pray the literal Lords Prayer, but intercedes for Peter.

A proper systematic would see the Lords prayer as a MODEL of how to pray, where the same principles and heart are put forth, not a wooden restriction upon what prayer should or should not be.

As such, praying in tongues does not contradict this at all.

So I guess I want to know why people do it. Is it something that just happens? Or is it something people are taught?

As a gift of the Spirit, the proper manifestation is something that is imparted by the Spirit, not taught. That being said, it is not the SPIRIT who DOES IT, BUT THE PERSON (Acts 2 "THEY spoke as the SPirit gave them utterance") AS THE SPIRIT GIVES.

I have heard of some people teaching tongues . . . I think that this is false and dangerous for it is manufacturing God's move.

People do it because if builds faith (Paul and James) it is an intrinsic part of the Armor of the Spirit (Paul) and, personally, it fosters an intimacy that supercedes anything that I have known. Paul is glad that he does it . . . frequently even . . . apart from being in church.

It's interesting to me that only people from certain churches do it.

There are people in each and every denomination who speak in tongues thanks to the historical Charismatic outpouring of the late 60's that started with an Episcopalian Rector by the name of Dennis Bennet.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

You're welcome to try and change that all you wish. See if all your efforts make a dent.

I think we need to be careful- there have been many times in the past when the Bible has been misinterpreted- so we need to stay open minded, and willing to change our mind on some of these issues. I think Ralph Waldo Emerson perhaps said it best:

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

 

[1611AV]

the surrounding text is relevant....for better understanding of what Paul was teaching us.

9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

(foreign languages...that get interpreted for the audiences edification/understanding.
a gifted interpreter can help a preacher bring the word into whole nations...
different tongues..even English eventually...hint, hint)

14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

(if the preacher preaches his psalm/scripture or his interpretations of psalms and scriptures,
but does so in his foreign to them in the audience's tongue,
then they listening would not get it...
the understanding that is in the preachers mind,
will not be passed on to them in attendance)

15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

(praying/singing with the Spirit
must be accompanied by understanding also...
else it is in vain.)

16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

same thought over and over again in the chapter...
the whole chapter has nothing to do with charismatic prayer tongues.
And everything to do with human languages,
either known or not known, depending on the context.


19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

the fact that we have the word in English
is a testament to the following of these rules set forth by Paul in 1Cor14
to bypass all language barriers with the help of other gifted individuals

nothing to do with charismatic prayer tongues.

Thank you for taking the time to show me that and explain it.

In Jesus,

 

[1611AV]

I dont see a question at all . . .



I see a statement about what praying in tongues is, by itself.



Really?

1 Cor 14:13-17
13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. 16 Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted say the "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?
NASU

Where?

The context is corporate worship . . . the only reason NOT to is if there is not an interpreter . . . but if there is . . . then there is plenty reason to pray in tongues. So I dont see what your driving at.

BTW, here:

1 Cor 14:17-19
18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind
NASU

Paul contrasts his "all the time" use with "in the church" so we see him praying in tongues regularly w/ no interpretation privately.



That in no way contradicts the use of tongues in prayer.




It is a matter of a better systematic brother, cause ridged concepts about the Lord's Prayer would mean you better ONLY ALWAYS PRAY THE LORDS PRAYER. Systematically, it is a MODEL for prayer, not a rote recitation. Because tho Jesus taught us this . . . the inspired text also teaches us this:

Rom 8:26
In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should,
NASU

AND gives us examples of prayer here:
Col 4:2-4
2 Devote yourselves to prayer, keeping alert in it with an attitude of thanksgiving; 3 praying at the same time for us as well, that God will open up to us a door for the word, so that we may speak forth the mystery of Christ, for which I have also been imprisoned; 4 that I may make it clear in the way I ought to speak.
NASU

where the Lords Prayer is NO WHERE NEAR THE CONTENT

1 Thess 3:10
10 as we night and day keep praying most earnestly that we may see your face, and may complete what is lacking in your faith
NASU

as well as here

Acts 1:24-25
24 And theyprayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25 to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place."
NASU

and here we have the actual content spoken, which again is not the Lords Prayer at all

James 5:17-18
17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. 18 Then heprayed again, and the sky poured rain and the earth produced its fruit.
NASU

And here again we have EXAMPLE from the OT by a NT author, who surely knows the Lords Prayer, who points to Elijah favorably and the content is stopping and starting rain . . . I could go on . . . the saints gathered for prayer for the release of Peter . . . all the other citations of Paul and what he has been praying for the particular churches for . . . and Jesus Himself

Luke 22:31-32
31 "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; 32 but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.
NASU

Where the ONE AND THE SAME WHO SAID HOW TO PRAY, does not pray the literal Lords Prayer, but intercedes for Peter.

A proper systematic would see the Lords prayer as a MODEL of how to pray, where the same principles and heart are put forth, not a wooden restriction upon what prayer should or should not be.

As such, praying in tongues does not contradict this at all.



As a gift of the Spirit, the proper manifestation is something that is imparted by the Spirit, not taught. That being said, it is not the SPIRIT who DOES IT, BUT THE PERSON (Acts 2 "THEY spoke as the SPirit gave them utterance") AS THE SPIRIT GIVES.

I have heard of some people teaching tongues . . . I think that this is false and dangerous for it is manufacturing God's move.

People do it because if builds faith (Paul and James) it is an intrinsic part of the Armor of the Spirit (Paul) and, personally, it fosters an intimacy that supercedes anything that I have known. Paul is glad that he does it . . . frequently even . . . apart from being in church.



There are people in each and every denomination who speak in tongues thanks to the historical Charismatic outpouring of the late 60's that started with an Episcopalian Rector by the name of Dennis Bennet.

Yeah, I thank you for the latter part of your post, as it was informative and directed at my questions. At first it seemed as tho you thought I was trying to get at something or showing contradiction. I was not. Altho I will admit, I do not believe that God uses tongues in these times. I do believe that he did.

Thats why I was asking here. I don't know anyone who speaks in tongues personally. But I do attend a very traditional church so no charismatic influence there at all.

Anyway I do thank you for your time here.

In Jesus,

 

[ARBITER01]

I think we need to be careful- there have been many times in the past when the Bible has been misinterpreted- so we need to stay open minded, and willing to change our mind on some of these issues. I think Ralph Waldo Emerson perhaps said it best:

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."

Be careful?

I'm not the least bit worried about my position, nor am I gonna be open minded to change my position at all, whatsoever. I received my gift of tongues because I prayed and fasted for the answer, and received it without anyone laying hands on me for it. It came from GOD in answer to prayer.

So my assertion stands. People can try to wage their campaign of nonsense against the gifts of GOD and they will not make a dent into stopping GOD from handing them out as HE does.

 

[zeke37]

Yeah, I thank you for the latter part of your post, as it was informative and directed at my questions. At first it seemed as tho you thought I was trying to get at something or showing contradiction. I was not. Altho I will admit, I do not believe that God uses tongues in these times. I do believe that he did.

Thats why I was asking here. I don't know anyone who speaks in tongues personally. But I do attend a very traditional church so no charismatic influence there at all.

Anyway I do thank you for your time here.

In Jesus,

do you believe that God (in times past) used a charismatic prayer tongue, as we see today in charismatic churches,
or do you think the gift of tongues is something else, and not a charismatic prayer un-language?

 

[ARBITER01]

Once a subject like this comes down to just badgering, anymore I tend to offer this simple suggestion,..

Ask GOD.

No one who is interested in these things of the bible has to deal with just people opinions, a Christian can seek GOD about these things in prayer. GOD doesn't hand out bad things to HIS people.

 

[zeke37]

ask Him how?
charismatic prayer?
how'dya know what you are even asking Him?

 

[zeke37]

Thank you for taking the time to show me that and explain it.

In Jesus,

YW...btw, the 1611 KJV auth vers. is my fav.