Speaking in tongues, compulsory or not?

[seebs]

Yes, but God’s revelation isn’t limited just to those to whom God gave it in order to be written down is it? It is the word of God in the sense that God’s revelation also comes from it to us His people, What God has done, is doing and will do, now through Jesus.

God's revelation is not limited to those people, but nor is it limited to readers of the Bible. He knows about all of us, even those who have never seen a Bible.

No I disagree, Jesus has died for all whether they have seen a Bible/heard of Jesus or not. However Jesus is the one recorded as saying that we worship in Spirit and truth. His words are spirit and they are life. That God loves us and sent Jesus to us is life and truth. IMO the disctinction is between the Jesus that did come amnong us in the flesh and one that man has invented.

Sure. But... Nonetheless, someone who has never seen a Bible, but reaches for God, will find God. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they will be filled.

 

[ahab]

Hi seebs,

God's revelation is not limited to those people, but nor is it limited to readers of the Bible. He knows about all of us, even those who have never seen a Bible.

According to the Bible He does and according to Jesus He knows us so well as to how many hairs are on our head. But Jesus is the way and the truth and the life and no-one now comes to the Father except through Jesus, hence Jesus commanding all disciples to pass on the gospel. Many may know something of God but the final revelation is through Jesus. Despite knowing very well the OT scriptures, Saul of Tarsus had a direct revelation from Jesus.

Sure. But... Nonetheless, someone who has never seen a Bible, but reaches for God, will find God. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they will be filled.

Not impossible but not necessarily going to happen. As Christians the crucial bit is although many may know something of God, the way and the truth and the life is now through Jesus. Many murderers are convinced that God told them to kill someone. And yet it seems this is exactly what Jesus has told us we are not to do.

 

[seebs]

Indeed.

I guess my concern is just that sometimes people (and I don't think you're in any danger of this) come to the conclusion that it is beyond God's ability to reach anyone who isn't actually looking at a physical Bible. And, several times, I've seen people argue that the Bible is Jesus, or that the Bible is co-eternal with God...

 

[Abbadon]

That's idolatry, same as praying to the pics of Jesus on the paper prayer mats my family keeps getting.

The word of humans and the word of God are two separate things. The word of man does occasionally plagerize the word of God, so really the Bible is the world's biggest rip-off.

 

[apenman]

So, here is the thing, there are many, many Christians who believe that we will be judged on the basis of whether, or not, we believe in the "NAME" of Christ. Now, I believe that the judgment of Christ will be based on whether, or not, we have fulfilled the law of Christ, because those who have, are the ones who did what he said. For instance:

Luke 6:46,"Why do you call me, `Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (NIV)

So, the issue is, did we do what he said, which I say comes down to "love one another", which is what we see in the sheep and the goats. Also, consider this:

Matthew 7:20-23, "Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" (NIV)

So, it is Christ himself who says we must believe, BUT then he qualifies that by saying that "by their fruit you will recognize them", which is what takes place in the sheep and the goats.

Also, no one who lived before Christ was even born could have believed in the name of Christ, so this standard of judgment cannot, and will not, be applied in the judgment of Christ. Instead, the standard will be doing what he said, and they will be recognized by their fruit.

 

[seebs]

God is love. Christ is God. Christ is love. The Name? Love. Those who have believed in the Name are saved. To believe in love is to love; how can you know this thing except by its practice?

 

[apenman]

God is love. Christ is God. Christ is love. The Name? Love. Those who have believed in the Name are saved. To believe in love is to love; how can you know this thing except by its practice?

I'm right with ya brother!!

 

[ahab]

Hi Apenman,



Although I see that Jesus said we were to believe in Him and be saved, He follows with repent and be baptised and obey His commands. So IMO to believe in Him is to speak and do according to what Jesus teaches and commands guided by the Holy Spirit. Also As Paul points out, that we have received fullness in Christ Jesus, the risen and glorified. I would say this is the law of Christ, although Paul uses that expression (various translations) as restoring a brother form sin (Galatians) and obeying the law of Christ but not discarding the law of God with the Jews (1 Cor) as example.



Similarly as you say Luke 6:46,"Why do you call me, `Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (NIV) its about obeying all He taught and commanded and equally as you point out in Matthew 25:31- have we given the bread of life, the word of God to the hungry and have we given the hungry some bread to eat, have we given the thirsty something to drink and have we told them about the water of life, Jesus, by which they will never be thirsty? Also we need to consider the righteouness and holiness needed to see the Kingdom, Jesus is the way and the truth and the life; all that Jesus speaks and instructs on, hence love one another as He has loved us.

God is love so we love God with all our being and then we can love our neighbour and one another. God so loved the world that He gave.

 

[ahab]

I think the scriptures 1 John, put it better than we can.

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

 

[apenman]

Hi Apenman,



Although I see that Jesus said we were to believe in Him and be saved, He follows with repent and be baptised and obey His commands. So IMO to believe in Him is to speak and do according to what Jesus teaches and commands guided by the Holy Spirit. Also As Paul points out, that we have received fullness in Christ Jesus, the risen and glorified. I would say this is the law of Christ, although Paul uses that expression (various translations) as restoring a brother form sin (Galatians) and obeying the law of Christ but not discarding the law of God with the Jews (1 Cor) as example.



Similarly as you say Luke 6:46,"Why do you call me, `Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" (NIV) its about obeying all He taught and commanded and equally as you point out in Matthew 25:31- have we given the bread of life, the word of God to the hungry and have we given the hungry some bread to eat, have we given the thirsty something to drink and have we told them about the water of life, Jesus, by which they will never be thirsty? Also we need to consider the righteouness and holiness needed to see the Kingdom, Jesus is the way and the truth and the life; all that Jesus speaks and instructs on, hence love one another as He has loved us.

God is love so we love God with all our being and then we can love our neighbour and one another. God so loved the world that He gave.

Again, it is my conclusion that you do not understand the law of Christ.

 

[ahab]

Hi Apenman,

In what way?
To me the 'law of Christ' is just an expression of faith of being obedient to the Holy Spirit to Christs commands and teachings, so that I remain in Him and He in me. This is the expression of love, because God is love, so if we remain in Jesus we remain in love. Therefore I can love others as Christ has loved me and given Himself for me.
I know that this isnt about speaking in tongues but I am curious to know in what way do you think that I do not understand the law of Christ.

 

[apenman]

To me the 'law of Christ' is just an expression of faith of being obedient to the Holy Spirit to Christs commands and teachings, so that I remain in Him and He in me.

I rest my case.

 

[new_world_savage]

I rest my case.

Ummm, did I miss something, or did you forget to state your case. Confused...but willing to listen...

 

[apenman]

Ummm, did I miss something, or did you forget to state your case. Confused...but willing to listen...

I have stated my case several times as part of an ongoing discussion, with ahab, which is spread over several threads.

 

[tulc]

I have stated my case several times as part of an ongoing discussion, with ahab, which is spread over several threads.

Soooo this is something tending more towards a PM or are you going to explain this:

I rest my case.

Because it did seem a little....curt.
tulc(getting ready to drive!)

 

[apenman]

Soooo this is something tending more towards a PM or are you going to explain this:
Because it did seem a little....curt.
tulc(getting ready to drive!)

We have been discussing the law of Christ in the "sex before marriage" thread for quite some time, and it has come up in other threads aswell.

 

[ahab]

Hi apenman,



Sorry I am puzzled. I thought it was me that had defined the ‘law of Christ’ You mentioned it and quoted Matt 7 and references to doing the will of Jesus and producing fruit, but that’s to me is just part of it and I included that. We preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and help those in need, ie we feed the bread and the bread of life and we give water and the living water? Isn’t that right?

 

[Adam81]

Quote:

Sure. But... Nonetheless, someone who has never seen a Bible, but reaches for God, will find God. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they will be filled.

Not impossible but not necessarily going to happen. As Christians the crucial bit is although many may know something of God, the way and the truth and the life is now through Jesus. Many murderers are convinced that God told them to kill someone. And yet it seems this is exactly what Jesus has told us we are not to do.

You do not need the bible to find Jesus, otherwise it is like saying you need to be perfect to become a Christian (many people who aren't Christian believe this). I know of many people who first became a Christian not through the bible, but through the actions of other Christians. However, once you are a Christian, the bible is an important tool to teach us about our faith and to help us do God's will.

 

[Jehovarapha]

I speak in tounges often and if you want the truth read the bible. It is very clear on the subject. As for a requirement, it is debatable. My question is are you a believer? If so you might find this interesting.

Mar 16:17 And1161 these5023 signs4592 shall follow3877 them3588 that believe;4100 In1722 my3450 name3686 shall they cast out1544 devils;1140 they shall speak2980 with new2537 tongues;1100

If that looks wierd, it is because I copied and paste from my bible/concordance.
I hope that helps someone and if you are interseted in knowing Gods way of operating. Flowing in the gifts of God with miracles signs and wonders following as the scripture says or want to know more about the gifts just let me know and I will give to you the revalation that God has given to me. This, by the way is coming to you from someone that did not believe this way at all before God changed my mind. God bless you all!

 

[Adam81]

There are many other passages which I have put in previously in this thread, all of which say that speaking in tongues is not necessary, and some of which say that is the least of all the gifts, as it doesn't glorify God.
I suggest that you skim over all the other posts in this thread (at least the ones that are on topic)