Speaking in Tongues a Cessationists’ View

[Saint Steven]

Paul had already imparted Spiritual gifts to Timothy.

“Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.” (2 Timothy 1:6)

Elders laid hands on Timothy who was a young Pastor according to Paul's instructions for him.

The ever-widening circle. (to encompass your doctrine)
Now you want to include the elders at Timothy's church as Apostles? lol

So, what do we have?
- Two outpourings (ignore the third)
- The Apostles' hands. (the 12)
- The Apostle Paul (can't forget him)
- Ananias (yet another Apostle appointed by Christ)
- The elders at Timothy's church

What's to say that the gifts could not have continued given the pattern we see here?
Where does your ever-widening circle stop?

 

[Dave L]

The ever-widening circle. (to encompass your doctrine)
Now you want to include the elders at Timothy's church as Apostles? lol

So, what do we have?
- Two outpourings (ignore the third)
- The Apostles' hands. (the 12)
- The Apostle Paul (can't forget him)
- Ananias (yet another Apostle appointed by Christ)
- The elders at Timothy's church

What's to say that the gifts could not have continued given the pattern we see here?
Where does your ever-widening circle stop?

Where does it say they imparted charismatic gifts that Paul already imparted? Paul told Timothy to lay hands on no one suddenly. Timothy did not distribute any gifts, but ordained pastors and deacons by the laying on of hands.

 

[Saint Steven]

The first 3 rules of bibical interpretation are:
1. Context
2. Context
3. Context

The context of the whole of chapter 14 is Paul addressing the problem of the Corinthians speaking an unrecognized tongue in church meetings. The "no one" is not referring to no one on the face of the earth, but no one in the congregation. So v2 should be read "For one who speaks in an [unrecognized] tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one [in the congregation] understands." Only God, who understands all languages, knows what was spoken. That doesn't mean it was a non-human language. If someone was speaking say Persian in a small Greek church then it is no surprise that no one understands him.

Sorry. I'm not going to listen to you lecture me about something you know NOTHING about.

 

[Saint Steven]

Where does it say they imparted charismatic gifts that Paul already imparted?

Yet another ridiculous question. Please concede the argument. You have lost.

 

[Dave L]

Yet another ridiculous question. Please concede the argument. You have lost.

Only after you produce solid rebuttal from scripture for your claims.

 

[Saint Steven]

“Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,” (Acts 14:14)

This only helps my argument. Now you are including Barnabas as an Apostle.
We'll add that to your ever-growing list of Apostles.

So, what do we have?
- Two outpourings (ignore the third)
- The Apostles' hands. (the 12)
- The Apostle Paul (can't forget him)
- Ananias (yet another Apostle appointed by Christ)
- The elders at Timothy's church
- Now you are including Barnabas as an Apostle

What's to say that the gifts could not have continued given the pattern we see here?
Where does your ever-widening circle stop?

 

[Dave L]

This only helps my argument. Now you are including Barnabas as an Apostle.
We'll add that to your ever-growing list of Apostles.

So, what do we have?
- Two outpourings (ignore the third)
- The Apostles' hands. (the 12)
- The Apostle Paul (can't forget him)
- Ananias (yet another Apostle appointed by Christ)
- The elders at Timothy's church
- Now you are including Barnabas as an Apostle

What's to say that the gifts could not have continued given the pattern we see here?
Where does your ever-widening circle stop?

Was Paul one of the 12? Was he an Apostle?

 

[Saint Steven]

Where does it say they imparted charismatic gifts that Paul already imparted? Paul told Timothy to lay hands on no one suddenly. Timothy did not distribute any gifts, but ordained pastors and deacons by the laying on of hands.

Not suddenly? What about carefully, or slowly? (allowable)

We'll add Timothy to your ever-growing list of Apostles.

So, what do we have?
- Two outpourings (ignore the third)
- The Apostles' hands. (the 12)
- The Apostle Paul (can't forget him)
- Ananias (yet another Apostle appointed by Christ)
- The elders at Timothy's church
- Now you are including Barnabas as an Apostle
- Add Timothy laying hands, but "not suddenly"

What's to say that the gifts could not have continued given the pattern we see here?
Where does your ever-widening circle stop?

 

[Saint Steven]

Was Paul one of the 12? Was he an Apostle?

Are you trying to shorten your list by consolidating points? lol

So, what do we have?
- Two outpourings (ignore the third)
- The Apostles' hands. (the 12)
- The Apostle Paul (can't forget him)
- Ananias (yet another Apostle appointed by Christ)
- The elders at Timothy's church
- Now you are including Barnabas as an Apostle
- Add Timothy laying hands, but "not suddenly"

What's to say that the gifts could not have continued given the pattern we see here? Where does your ever-widening circle stop?

 

[Dave L]

Are you trying to shorten your list by consolidating points? lol

So, what do we have?
- Two outpourings (ignore the third)
- The Apostles' hands. (the 12)
- The Apostle Paul (can't forget him)
- Ananias (yet another Apostle appointed by Christ)
- The elders at Timothy's church
- Now you are including Barnabas as an Apostle
- Add Timothy laying hands, but "not suddenly"

What's to say that the gifts could not have continued given the pattern we see here? Where does your ever-widening circle stop?

We're still all hat and no cattle here. Scripture alone would settle the issue but you haven't any to support your claims.

 

[Dave L]

Not suddenly? What about carefully, or slowly? (allowable)

We'll add Timothy to your ever-growing list of Apostles.

So, what do we have?
- Two outpourings (ignore the third)
- The Apostles' hands. (the 12)
- The Apostle Paul (can't forget him)
- Ananias (yet another Apostle appointed by Christ)
- The elders at Timothy's church
- Now you are including Barnabas as an Apostle
- Add Timothy laying hands, but "not suddenly"

What's to say that the gifts could not have continued given the pattern we see here?
Where does your ever-widening circle stop?

Nothing here amounts to anything without scripture to back it.

 

[Saint Steven]

Only after you produce solid rebuttal from scripture for your claims.

I have already done that many times.
No response from you yet. You need to address this.

Acts 2:38-39
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- You (the believers at Pentecost)
- Your children (children of the believers at Pentecost)
- All who are far off (still available to EVERYONE in the future)
- All the Lord our God will call (are we still being called today?)

 

[Saint Steven]

Nothing here amounts to anything without scripture to back it.

Exactly. That is where you have failed. There is absolutely no scriptural basis for your ever-expanding list of Apostles, except to prove that the distribution of gifts continued unimpeded into the future and is still alive and well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So, what do we have?
- Two outpourings (ignore the third)
- The Apostles' hands. (the 12)
- The Apostle Paul (can't forget him)
- Ananias (yet another Apostle appointed by Christ)
- The elders at Timothy's church
- Now you are including Barnabas as an Apostle
- Add Timothy laying hands, but "not suddenly"

What's to say that the gifts could not have continued given the pattern we see here? Where does your ever-widening circle stop?

 

[Dave L]

Exactly. That is where you have failed. There is absolutely no scriptural basis for your ever-expanding list of Apostles, except to prove that the distribution of gifts continued unimpeded into the future and is still alive and well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So, what do we have?
- Two outpourings (ignore the third)
- The Apostles' hands. (the 12)
- The Apostle Paul (can't forget him)
- Ananias (yet another Apostle appointed by Christ)
- The elders at Timothy's church
- Now you are including Barnabas as an Apostle
- Add Timothy laying hands, but "not suddenly"

What's to say that the gifts could not have continued given the pattern we see here? Where does your ever-widening circle stop?

You have zero scripture to counter the fact that beyond the two outpourings, and the distribution of the charismatic gifts thorough the apostles' hands, any other means existed. This is what we are talking about.

 

[Dave L]

I have already done that many times.
No response from you yet. You need to address this.

Acts 2:38-39
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- You (the believers at Pentecost)
- Your children (children of the believers at Pentecost)
- All who are far off (still available to EVERYONE in the future)
- All the Lord our God will call (are we still being called today?)

Act 2:38 does not mention the Charismatic gifts. It mentions the Holy Spirit which ever believer has.

 

[Albion]

I have already done that many times.
No response from you yet. You need to address this.

Acts 2:38-39
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

Are you seriously calling that verse which you quote here a proof that tongues never ceased? It not only doesn't do that, but neither does it promise that every believer of all time will be gifted with tongues, etc..

 

[Saint Steven]

Act 2:38 does not mention the Charismatic gifts. It mentions the Holy Spirit which ever believer has.

Are we still in the last days?
What is the promise? How is it defined in Acts chapter two?

Acts 2:38-39
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Earlier in the chapter we read:

Acts 2:14-18
Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd:
“Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you;
listen carefully to what I say.
15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning!
16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.

Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

 

[Saint Steven]

Are you seriously calling that verse which you quote here a proof that tongues never ceased? It not only doesn't do that, but neither does it promise that every believer of all time will be gifted with tongues, etc..

Some context will help. What is "the promise" in Acts 2:39?

Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

 

[Albion]

Some context will help. What is "the promise" in Acts 2:39?

That believers will receive the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

 

[Saint Steven]

That believers will receive the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

Defined as "what you now see and hear."

Acts 1:4-5
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”