spanking

[ukok]

Amie in resp[onse to your post, firstly I did not resent your opinion, I resented your generalisation that those who spank their children are abusers.

Secondly, yours is now the second post that I has been written to me personally that includes the sentence, I don't know you, know nothing about you, "nor do I care to" - how foolish i am to expect christian sensitivity from those who profess to be christian. We are brothers and sisters in Christ are we not. I respect your opinion, you are perfectly entitled to it, but I don't have to agree with it. Also, i asked you to tell me how you discipline your child because i am genuinely interested in learning different parental methods of disciplining. And i don't believe that i ever stated that only parents have knowledge in this area.

I'd just like to say that i'd be perfectly happy to know you, despite whatever feelings you may have for me. I had no idea that my post was so offensive as to provoke such a response towards me as a person. I suppose i may reconsider entering any posts at all in future if i ellicit this type of response.

 

[Marcel]

Amie in resp[onse to your post, firstly I did not resent your opinion, I resented your generalisation that those who spank their children are abusers.

Secondly, yours is now the second post that I has been written to me personally that includes the sentence, I don't know you, know nothing about you, "nor do I care to" - how foolish i am to expect christian sensitivity from those who profess to be christian. We are brothers and sisters in Christ are we not. I respect your opinion, you are perfectly entitled to it, but I don't have to agree with it. Also, i asked you to tell me how you discipline your child because i am genuinely interested in learning different parental methods of disciplining. And i don't believe that i ever stated that only parents have knowledge in this area.

I'd just like to say that i'd be perfectly happy to know you, despite whatever feelings you may have for me. I had no idea that my post was so offensive as to provoke such a response towards me as a person. I suppose i may reconsider entering any posts at all in future if i ellicit this type of response.

I think the two of you, have a different view of what's abusive and what isn't. You don't consider it abusive, she does, end of story.
Technicly speaking your perspective is just as disagreeable to her, as hers is to you. I also think, that a "who's more offensive to who" contest, isn't taking the discussion in any direction, it only gets it nowhere.

 

[amie]

Amie in resp[onse to your post, firstly I did not resent your opinion, I resented your generalisation that those who spank their children are abusers.

Secondly, yours is now the second post that I has been written to me personally that includes the sentence, I don't know you, know nothing about you, "nor do I care to" - how foolish i am to expect christian sensitivity from those who profess to be christian. We are brothers and sisters in Christ are we not. I respect your opinion, you are perfectly entitled to it, but I don't have to agree with it. Also, i asked you to tell me how you discipline your child because i am genuinely interested in learning different parental methods of disciplining. And i don't believe that i ever stated that only parents have knowledge in this area.

I'd just like to say that i'd be perfectly happy to know you, despite whatever feelings you may have for me. I had no idea that my post was so offensive as to provoke such a response towards me as a person. I suppose i may reconsider entering any posts at all in future if i ellicit this type of response.

I stated my opinion is that hitting is physical abuse. If you resent that. Cope.
I do not expect everyone to agree, butI am definitely against spanking.
Time out have worked for me and talking. I use my words, not my hands. That is what has worked for me. I feel there is always another alternative than hitting.
If my post was the second time you heard something of this nature have you considered your posts possibly sound caustic? maybe it came across as such.
And we have one person in here saying "when my husband and I have children we are spanking" she already has it in her head that she is spanking. Without ever seeing other alternatives. Now that is odd in my opinion.
Most people I know who spank do so as a last resort...
If I came in here and said "you are all a bunch of child abusers" then I could see some resentment but I merely shared my opinion on why I think it is physically abusive. In some countries against the law and I feel it should be. If someone walked up to you and hit you, that would be a form of physical abuse. How is spanking any different?sorry if I offended you. I am sincere.

 

[ukok]

i would appreciate it if you could inform me of any *caustic* element of any of my posts.

I don't believe that you have taken issue with anyone elses posts, of all of those who have confessed to spanking and indeed using implements to do so, what makes me so different that i cause so much offence.

I have clearly stated that i respect your entitlement to hold whatsoever opinion you wish to, it makes no difference to me at all. I do not understand your need to reiterate that i take offence with your thoughts on spanking, when quite clearly i do not.

Also, please don't tell me to cope, i have done so all my life and in the scheme of things this pales into insignificance.

 

[OracleX]

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

OK so we know that the entire Bible is God given and all that we need for life. It is God's way for us to live, it is the instructions on how we should live. It will lead us in all aspects of life.

So what does it say about corpral punishment?

Proverbs 13:24 He that spares his rod hates his son: but he that loves him chastens him early.

If you look at the hebrew word used for rod here we find the word shebet (shay'-bet) from an unused root probably meaning to branch off; a scion, i.e. (literally) a stick (for punishing, writing, fighting, ruling, walking, etc.) or (figuratively) a clan:--X correction, dart, rod, sceptre, staff, tribe.

What is being talked about is a real thing that was used to correct children. The second part of this verse says that the parent who loves thier child will not do this early. Correcting our childrens behavior while they are young shows that we love them. Correcting them while they are young can save them from making mistakes when they are older.

Proverbs 3:11-12 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: For whom the LORD loves he corrects; even as a father the son in whom he delights.

God corrects those whom He loves. You can look at many many many examples of not only corpral punishment but capital punishment through the Bible and many of those instances are done by the Father Himself.

Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Once again, talking about a real object, a real rod. Once again corporal punishment.

Proverbs 23:13-14 Withhold not correction from the child: for if you beat him with a rod, he shall not die. You shall beat him with the rod, and shall deliver his soul from sheol.

This is the most explicit of verses found about corporal punishment for parents and thier children.

The bottom line is that corporal punishment is part of God's instrustion to parents. It is God's way.

 

[amie]

I am not going to let a book dictate whether or not I hit my child but thanks for sharing oraclex.
I have nothing else to add in this thread. I shared my views...off to apologetics where in my opinion the minds are much more open to discussion...

 

[Beckijhn]

Thanks OracleX! I do agree. I have three beautiful children - well a teen and two pre-teens. I have used spanking in the past though I no longer need to. It does work and it is Biblical. (If I ever have more I will use the same over all methods) I don't really have a problem with anyone NOT spanking though in working with kids there is a definite problem with kids not being disciplined - which generally means throwing a few words at them, threatening them over and over, following through only a really small part of the time and then shrugging the shoulders and wondering "why don't my kids listen to me?"

But I digress. I DO have a problem with someone saying "I am not going to let a book dictate whether or not I hit my child" When the book in question is the Bible. In that case there is not really anything further to discuss with that person on the subject of godly living and raising my kids.

No offense intended Aime - I think we are just in different areas and I would look to a Titus 2 woman for advice.

I have many friends that aren't Christians, and some that don't spank. I still love them dearly but don't discuss godly child-rearing with them.

The point I'm making - not an attack on anyone - is that UKOK and many of us are raising our kids in a godly manner as instructed by Him and His Word and being put on the ropes in a Christian Parenting forum can easily put us on the defensive.

 

[OracleX]

I am not going to let a book dictate whether or not I hit my child but thanks for sharing oraclex.
I have nothing else to add in this thread. I shared my views...off to apologetics where in my opinion the minds are much more open to discussion...

Well that Book is the Word of God and if it does not dictate how you live your life then what does dictate how you live your life? If it isn't God then who?

 

[OracleX]

Thanks OracleX! I do agree. I have three beautiful children - well a teen and two pre-teens. I have used spanking in the past though I no longer need to. It does work and it is Biblical. (If I ever have more I will use the same over all methods) I don't really have a problem with anyone NOT spanking though in working with kids there is a definite problem with kids not being disciplined - which generally means throwing a few words at them, threatening them over and over, following through only a really small part of the time and then shrugging the shoulders and wondering "why don't my kids listen to me?"

But I digress. I DO have a problem with someone saying "I am not going to let a book dictate whether or not I hit my child" When the book in question is the Bible. In that case there is not really anything further to discuss with that person on the subject of godly living and raising my kids.

No offense intended Aime - I think we are just in different areas and I would look to a Titus 2 woman for advice.

I have many friends that aren't Christians, and some that don't spank. I still love them dearly but don't discuss godly child-rearing with them.

The point I'm making - not an attack on anyone - is that UKOK and many of us are raising our kids in a godly manner as instructed by Him and His Word and being put on the ropes in a Christian Parenting forum can easily put us on the defensive.

Well said and wise advice.

Not every child will need to be spanked. Some children listen without having to go to that extent. But I would say that those children are rare and far and few between.

 

[EJO]

Stepping back in to the thread since it has started into a topic of abuse let me give some of my own personal history.
When I was 5 years old my mom was married to a guy for about six years. During those six years I was abused pretty badly.
He would smack me across the face. Once so hard I could not go to school for a couple days. He would pick me up off the ground by my hair, and pull it out of the roots. He would also pick me up off the ground by pulling me by my ear lobes, I could hear the cartilage tear and pop under my skin. He pushed me down stairs, my mom down stairs one time.

When I got married and was discussing parenting in a marriage class (before kids), I broke down in tears because I was terrified of becoming an abuser of my own kids. Because I always remember being told the abused kids grow up to be abusers. I did not want to become like that.

So, after 4 kids, I use spanking as ONE of the MANY tools to raise my kids. Like I said previously, I do spank a lot less, and have learned other methods and more relational ways to raising my kids.

So- amie, I will PM you this since you are not returning to the thread. Please do not insult me and tell me that spanking is abuse. There is a HUGE difference when you use spanking in the correct context and manner and abuse.

I am not a violent person, yes there are times when I get pretty frustrated at my children. I have had to apologize to them and ask for forgiveness.

When you sit down with a child and talk to them about what thier consequence is, and have them ask for forgiveness for the disobedience. This form of punishment and using it in the proper way is not abuse, but a tool in which one remembers the consequence. It is similar to when a child touches a hot stove for the first time. Rembering what pain is associated with the stove, they remember it is something not to be touched.

But, it is late, and I will answer any PM's that anyone in the thread has for me.

Peace- EJO

 

[psycmajor]

EJO
Wow, that is rough.

Have you dealt with that abuse in your mind?

 

[EJO]

Yes, but more importantly in my spirit, and with my God.

Don't worry about me I am in sound mind and body.

EJO

 

[kimber1]

I just have to say that i agree with whoever said that about "the book". it is the Bible that tells us to discipline our children plain and simple. and the Bible is a guide to living....hello? like i said early on in this thread, more parents these days need to punish their kids rather than le;t them run the house. if that means spanking than so be it....

 

[OracleX]

Sounds like EJO we have similar pasts. The one thing that is amazing about all that has been experienced is that it has made us stronger. And now able to confort those with the same aflictions. Plus the gifts of forgiveness and love and patience came with the healing. Not to mention healing from anger and rage.

 

[EJO]

I have had the whole spectrum of emotions. But all I have to say is my redeemer lives!