Souls and Evolution

[Tinker Grey]

Seriously though, the Bible says it was wine.

Oh, see, that was obviously metaphorical.

 

[dad]

Clearly you've never been involved in a wedding. Jesus was certainly on duty that day.

Seems awfully petty to call upon the power of God to serve as the caterer -- unless there was another reason Jesus would be responsible for the refreshments...



What, drunkeness is not sinful before the automobile was invented?

So did He drink that day?! Gotcha..!

 

[consol]

While we are on the subject of souls, what is a Unicorns favourite food?

 

[AVET]

While we are on the subject of souls, what is a Unicorns favourite food?

Cladists.

 

[Naraoia]

Cladists.

Now I know why I hate unicorns

 

[MrGoodBytes]

If you've ever seen an old coin press, it is a massive piece of machinery that goes from the floor to the ceiling. A large cylinder rises up, then comes slamming down on a piece of forging and stamps the serial number on it. The whole floor shakes. You then reach in, take out the forged piece, put a new one in, and press another serial number on it.

Now imagine your co-worker high on Marijuana working with you.

Performing a potentially hazardous task while under the influence of any drug, be it THC, valium or alcohol is stupid and irresponsible and not even the most rabid 420-smoke-weed-every-day card-carrying NORML activist would condone this.

 

[AV1611VET]

Performing a potentially hazardous task while under the influence of any drug, be it THC, valium or alcohol is stupid and irresponsible and not even the most rabid 420-smoke-weed-every-day card-carrying NORML activist would condone this.

Then I take it you disagree with this:

Weed makes everything more pleasant. Including visuals...

Or are you against sticking your hand inside a machine, while your co-worker waits with "more pleasant vision"?

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Then I take it you disagree with this:Or are you against sticking your hand inside a machine, while your co-worker waits with "more pleasant vision"?

Well, sort of. From what I've heard, weed makes everything already pleasant even more pleasant and turns unpleasant things into nightmares, at least when it comes to occasional users. The average pothead wouldn't experience much more than panic and paranoia from toking up in a noisy, harshly lit factory filled with yelling workers and rapidly moving machinery.

 

[gaara4158]

Well, sort of. From what I've heard, weed makes everything already pleasant even more pleasant and turns unpleasant things into nightmares, at least when it comes to occasional users. The average pothead wouldn't experience much more than panic and paranoia from toking up in a noisy, harshly lit factory filled with yelling workers and rapidly moving machinery.

This is true.
And again, the fact that it's not appropriate to use during company time doesn't mean it's not appropriate to use ever.

 

[AV1611VET]

And again, the fact that it's not appropriate to use during company time doesn't mean it's not appropriate to use ever.

By "ever", I assume you mean "medicinally"?

If you're including "recreationally" as well, we have names for people who do that --- inmates.

 

[gaara4158]

By "ever", I assume you mean "medicinally"?

If you're including "recreationally" as well, we have names for people who do that --- inmates.

Medicinally is great, recreationally is wonderful. It should be legalized, but that's an entirely different argument.

 

[AV1611VET]

Medicinally is great...

Medicinally, it would be categorized as either "effective" or "non-effective" --- not "great".

... recreationally is wonderful.

Recreationally is "illegal" --- not "wonderful".

The last time I checked, it's still a C-1 controlled substance.

It should be legalized, but that's an entirely different argument.

Now you're using the right word --- (assuming you're talking scientifically this time).

Science argues for a lot of stuff being legalized that shouldn't be.

 

[Jester4kicks]

Science argues for a lot of stuff being legalized that shouldn't be.

How does "science" make that argument? And what do you mean by "a lot of stuff"?

The question of drug legalization is not a question of science, it's a question of logic and ethics.

(Oh, and for the record, people should be able to put whatever they want into their own bodies as long as it doesn't affect anyone else. There's no logical basis for marijuana to be illegal while alcohol, cigarettes, and prescription medications are all perfectly legal.)

 

[gaara4158]

Medicinally, it would be categorized as either "effective" or "non-effective" --- not "great".

Call it effective with very pleasant side effects, then.

Recreationally is "illegal" --- not "wonderful".

The last time I checked, it's still a C-1 controlled substance.

Yes, because illegal things can never be wonderful...

Now you're using the right word --- (assuming you're talking scientifically this time).

Science argues for a lot of stuff being legalized that shouldn't be.

Wait, what?

1. Science doesn't make arguments. People use science to make arguments. Pretty darn valid arguments.

2. Why shouldn't it be legalized? Weed is a lot easier to get than alcohol right now, and do you know why? Because it's illegal. So much for being a "controlled" substance.

 

[AV1611VET]

How does "science" make that argument? And what do you mean by "a lot of stuff"?

The question of drug legalization is not a question of science, it's a question of logic and ethics.

Science provides what's called expert testimony to either, as the Bible puts it, accuse or excuse.

Oh, and for the record, people should be able to put whatever they want into their own bodies as long as it doesn't affect anyone else.

So a five-year-old should be able to drink and smoke?

There's no logical basis for marijuana to be illegal while alcohol, cigarettes, and prescription medications are all perfectly legal.

Really?

So you have no problem with Joe, who has been drinking since the age of 11, taking marijuana since he was 17, and snorting Coke since he was 18, providing backup for you during a bank robbery?

Okay if Tom, the Greyhound Bus driver, takes a load of passengers through the Rockies on U.S. 6, as long as he stays sober all the way?

 

[Jester4kicks]

Science provides what's called expert testimony to either, as the Bible puts it, accuse or excuse.

So a five-year-old should be able to drink and smoke?Really?

So you have no problem with Joe, who has been drinking since the age of 11, taking marijuana since he was 17, and snorting Coke since he was 18, providing backup for you during a bank robbery?

Okay if Tom, the Greyhound Bus driver, takes a load of passengers through the Rockies on U.S. 6, as long as he stays sober all the way?

Is that all you've got, AV? Strawmen?

Ok... one at a time:

1) Nobody said 5-yr-olds should be able to drink and smoke. We have restrictions on alcohol and cigarettes to ensure people are old enough to make the informed decision before they engage in those activities. Drug use of any kind would be no exception.

2) If Joe was able to pass all of the tests, exams, and requirements to be a police officer, then his past drug use apparently didn't affect him very much.

3) What's wrong with Tom driving a bus as long as he's sober? Here's a better question, what if Tom was sober, but he was doped up on perfectly-legal prescription medication? I guess that would be fine with you?

Of course, the answer is no. However, there are plenty of requirements, checks, and safeguards in place to ensure people in those positions have the proper ability to perform their jobs.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Science provides what's called expert testimony to either, as the Bible puts it, accuse or excuse.

I wasn't aware that "science" allowed that. I was under the impression that our current legal system accepted the fact that some people are simply more knowledgeable in some fields than the average joe.

Don't be bitter, AV -- if I'm ever involved in a court case where "embedded age" was an issue, I'd be quick to recommend you as an expert witness on the topic.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Science provides what's called expert testimony to either, as the Bible puts it, accuse or excuse.

If you want to go that way, science unanimously agrees that marijuana is no more of a health hazard than alcohol and tobacco, nor is it more addictive (nicotine actually has a higher potential for addiction than heroin). The reason why it was outlawed was due to a combination of ignorance, moral panic, racism (read Harry Anslinger's infamous "marijuana is mostly consumed by crazed negro jazz musicians who thus become impervious to the pain of police bullets" pamphlets and you will see what I mean) and economic interests by the DuPont and Hearst families.

So a five-year-old should be able to drink and smoke?Really?

No. A 21-year old should, however.

So you have no problem with Joe, who has been drinking since the age of 11, taking marijuana since he was 17, and snorting Coke since he was 18, providing backup for you during a bank robbery?

I'll assume that Joe is a policeman and not a bank robber. Either way, it doesn't matter. If he managed to pass the exams and is sober right now, I'll trust him as much as I trust anyone else. I'd rather depend on a calm, rational ex-junkie than on a gung-ho, teetotaling moron for my protection.

Okay if Tom, the Greyhound Bus driver, takes a load of passengers through the Rockies on U.S. 6, as long as he stays sober all the way?

You mean Tom, the Greyhound Bus driver who got so high on the perfectly legal and socially acceptable drug 2-hydroxyethane the day before that his friends had to carry him back to his apartment?

 

[BananaSlug]

Getting back to the OP (I know that topic is most likely lost, but what the heck). I created my own "Atheist Doctrine."

1. I accept the fact that I do not believe in any supernatural deities.
a) I also accept the fact that I am not 100% certain, as no one of any faith is 100% certain until death.

2. I accept the fact that all life is related and no life should be harmed without reason or allowed to suffer.

3. I have hope that is not dependent on belief in a deity. I hope that my actions will help make another life happier, put a smile on someone's face, and create a better future for my children and others.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

This was in Dawkins' book "The God Delusion." (taken from an atheist www)

New Ten Commandments

Do not do to others what you would not want to do to you.

In all things, strive to cause no harm.

Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.

Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.

Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.

Always seek to be learning something new.

Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.

Never censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.

Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.

Question everything.