• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Souls and Abortion

fromdownunder

Senior Member
Apr 21, 2006
944
78
✟24,024.00
Faith
Atheist
From this site:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001488.htm#top

Up to 50% of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion (i.e., non medically induced) before the person is even aware that they are pregnant.

Another 10% occur between 9-12 weeks after conception.

For those who believe that the "soul" is created at conception, that is a lot of souls that never make it to life. And, are they different to "souls" that have died through medically induced abortion?

I am interested in any thoughts that you may have on this. If you have read any of my other posts, this is not any sort of a "trap" to try and prove something.

My interest is in your ideas as to whether these "souls" will go to Heaven or Hell, or (more interesting to me) will they get a second shot (ie, be actually, eventually born), or is it something else entirely?

I don't know, is a fine response. I suspect that it is not a subject that people give a lot of thought to, but ideas are always interesting to mull over.

Norm
 

TheDag

I don't like titles
Jan 8, 2005
9,459
267
✟43,794.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Let me be the first to say I don't know so it will be easier for others to say it! I don't actually know when the soul comes into existence although I am aware of the view that it is at conception. I'm not prepared to say that is right or wrong. I would like to see the chosen abortion rates lowered though but I am against making abortion illegal.
 
Upvote 0

FadingWhispers3

Senior Veteran
Jun 28, 2003
2,998
233
✟34,344.00
Faith
Humanist
Politics
US-Others
Some people say that all these souls will go to heaven because they have not attained reason, nor had chance to do any wrong. A difficulty with this is that it then may appear very attractive to argue that abortions should occur... after all, what can be more selfless than to risk hell so that many children may automatically go to heaven by depriving them of life?
 
Upvote 0

reina23

Active Member
Dec 9, 2005
362
11
36
Florida
Visit site
✟23,048.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I don't know. I don't believe in heaven or hell.. I don't even really believe that they are souls. I mean, its life sure, but at that early they can't do much.... I personally think life starts at birth, or at the point that the baby could survive if born prematurely.
 
Upvote 0

jayem

Naturalist
Jun 24, 2003
15,429
7,165
75
St. Louis, MO.
✟433,576.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
fromdownunder said:
My interest is in your ideas as to whether these "souls" will go to Heaven or Hell, or (more interesting to me) will they get a second shot (ie, be actually, eventually born), or is it something else entirely?


Hi Norm,

The stock answer for these scenarios, is that God is totally righteous, so however He handles the situation will be perfectly fair and just.

Which is side-stepping the question, rather than actually addressing it, but that's usually the most you'll get.
 
Upvote 0

Monica02

Senior Veteran
Aug 17, 2004
2,568
152
✟3,547.00
Faith
Catholic
fromdownunder said:
From this site:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001488.htm#top

Up to 50% of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion (i.e., non medically induced) before the person is even aware that they are pregnant.

Another 10% occur between 9-12 weeks after conception.

For those who believe that the "soul" is created at conception, that is a lot of souls that never make it to life. And, are they different to "souls" that have died through medically induced abortion?

I am interested in any thoughts that you may have on this. If you have read any of my other posts, this is not any sort of a "trap" to try and prove something.

My interest is in your ideas as to whether these "souls" will go to Heaven or Hell, or (more interesting to me) will they get a second shot (ie, be actually, eventually born), or is it something else entirely?

I don't know, is a fine response. I suspect that it is not a subject that people give a lot of thought to, but ideas are always interesting to mull over.

Norm

I do not think the Church has a definite teaching on when we are ensouled but the answer would be the same for spontaneously aborted humans as well as deliberately killed ones. The Church definetely teaches that people are not reincarnated so no, these very small humans would not be reborn in a reincarnation sense.
The Church does not have a teaching on whether these humans are in Heaven or Hell. Their fate is left to the mercy of God. They have not been baptised but they also have never sinned so only God knows where they are. I tend to believe that they are in Heaven because they have never sinned but this is not CHurch Doctrine.
 
Upvote 0