Soul Sleep?

[ZoneChaos]

Hey LB, I think we are still on topic. Part of discussing Soul Sleep is determining what the souls "is".

 

[LouisBooth]

actually it seemed you got into the death of souls..another topic entirely

 

[drmmjr]

1 - What is a soul? - A person.
2 - Is a soul immortal? - No. See #1. Also, immortal soul is never mentioned in Scripture.
3 - Does a soul die? - Yes. See #1.
4 - Does a soul sleep? - not in the normal sense of sleep (with dreams).

So have we been talking about "soul sleep" or souls dying. They are so intertwined you can't talk about one topic without the other coming up.

 

[LouisBooth]

okay, if you say so..:lol: souls are immortal, why would you think they are not?

 

[ZoneChaos]

The Soul is what is left after hte Body is destroyed. It is our person, it is who we are, not what we are. A souls is not tangible, it is not physical any any sense of the word. It has nothing to do with air, or neurons... it is a spiritual device existing in a spiritual universe, seperate and apart from the physical one, and yet bound by it, to give the physical form of ourselves meaning.

When the body dies, the soul still exists.

 

[drmmjr]

LouisBooth

okay, if you say so.. souls are immortal, why would you think they are not?

It doesn't say they are in scripture.

ZoneChaos

The Soul is what is left after hte Body is destroyed. It is our person, it is who we are, not what we are. A souls is not tangible, it is not physical any any sense of the word. It has nothing to do with air, or neurons... it is a spiritual device existing in a spiritual universe, seperate and apart from the physical one, and yet bound by it, to give the physical form of ourselves meaning.

When the body dies, the soul still exists.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

What happens when you seperate the two things that man is made from (matter and breath of life)? You no longer have a living soul. A living soul is made up of these two things.

 

[ZoneChaos]

Before we continue... Do you hold to the Dichotomy position or the Trichotomy position?

Often times, the word souls is used interchangebaly with the word spirit.

I think I have been using the meaning of spirit in my argument here, when referring to soul.

If we hold to the Dichotomy view, would that change the argument to "Spirit sleep"?

Anyway. If we accept that soul = body + breath, and the body, as a soul dies, then it is dead. It is not sleeping.. so there is no "soul sleep", only "soul death." The problem with a Dichotomy view is that whn we die... whatever is left that is not physical goes somewhere.. that is in scripture. So we are then left with a redefined Dichotomy, which is body and spirit.

And if we hold to the Trichotomy view, then as above, the soul dies, along with the body, and the spirit still remains.

In either case, there is no sleep of the soul, only death. And there is no sleep of the spirit, for as we see in scripture, the spirit of a man is aware, coherant, and active.

 

[drmmjr]

Do you hold to the Dichotomy position or the Trichotomy position?

Huh? 8o

 

[ZoneChaos]

Dichotomy teaches that man is made up of two parts: Body and Spirit.. the Trichotomy position says it is made up of Body, Soul, and Spirit

 

[quickas]

It is false Doctrine

 

[drmmjr]

Anyway. If we accept that soul = body + breath, and the body, as a soul dies, then it is dead. It is not sleeping.. so there is no "soul sleep", only "soul death." The problem with a Dichotomy view is that whn we die... whatever is left that is not physical goes somewhere.. that is in scripture. So we are then left with a redefined Dichotomy, which is body and spirit.

Sleep is probably not the best word to use. It was most likely used because of these verses:

Matt. 9:23 - And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise,
24 - He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.

Mark 5:38 - And he cometh to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and seeth the tumult, and them that wept and wailed greatly.
39 - And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
40 - And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying.

Luke 8:51 - And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden.
52 - And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
53 - And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.

John 11:11 - These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 - Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 - Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 - Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Now here we see that in these verses Jesus is speaking of death as sleep. If they weren't dead then I don't think that Jesus would have reacted like this: (John 11:35 - Jesus wept.) when he saw Lazarus in the tomb. I don't think that Martha would have made this comment: John 11:39 - Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.

The problem with a Dichotomy view is that whn we die... whatever is left that is not physical goes somewhere.. that is in scripture.

It would be interesting to see the scripture that says this.

In either case, there is no sleep of the soul, only death. And there is no sleep of the spirit, for as we see in scripture, the spirit of a man is aware, coherant, and active.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 - For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

If we are aware, then why do the dead not know anything?