Something About Mary

[Root of Jesse]

That's what you've told us before is your reason for being here--to smite Protestants and anyone who dares to speak unfavorably about the RCC. Has something changed?

That's a flat-out mis-statement. I never said any such thing.

 

[Albion]

That's a flat-out mis-statement. I never said any such thing.

Oh, you didn't say "smite," that's true, but the meaning was there.

 

[sunlover1]

The difference is that Catholics are divided, but Catholic teaching is one body.

Catholics are divided? Lovely.
Yes they have one catechism.
Fat lot of good that does when the
priest teaches what he pleases.
Not that I care but you're doing
the "my church is great yours
is dumb" game
SMH

There is no one body of Protestant teaching...

Uh, hello?

 

[sculleywr]

Sculleywr is probably the easiest to talk to here, if we simply hear him. He's really quite clear that his denomination is The One True Church and all others are not part of the Body of Christ.

I prefer the KISS philosophy "Keep it simple, simpleton."

I, however, do not limit salvation to within the Church, as Roman Catholics used to. Salvation is as limited as God is (and we know what that means).

 

[sculleywr]

Of course they do!

Not everything is settled by a Papal pronouncement, but many are.

While I tend to agree that the Pope's position is overemphasized in Rome, You're going a good deal beyond hyperbole here.

 

[sculleywr]

It really depends on what you are trying to "prove". ALL things necessary salvific have been written down and canonized and the scriptures say this.

However, if your group is of the mind to modify, develop, etc, what Irenaeus accused folks of (that the apostles didn't have the fulness of faith, and thus wrote it down for later generations), then yeah, what happens is what we see, schism, heresy, abiding evil in the midst of the Body.

The problem is, Scripture was not determined in the time of Irenaeus, with the exception of the Old Testament. All of the Apostolic writings were referred to as Tradition in his writing. Sola Scriptura would have meant, in his time, using only the Old Testament and ignoring the writings of the Apostles. All the way up until the mid-to-late 300's, that would be the meaning of Sola Scriptura.

 

[sculleywr]

Oh, right. Why don't you enlighten us about our issues...even the split between Orthodox and Catholic was very much a cultural thing.

On that one, he has you nailed into the wall. The Great Schism wasn't cultural as much as it was doctrinal. And there are now more doctrines separating us than before.

 

[sculleywr]

Interesting


You're now speaking of those in the land of the living as opposed to those
who have died?
Sounds cool.
Indians do a little bow to one another and say "sat siri akal" (spelling?)
which is like "the divine in me bows to the divine in you".

Exactly. We are made in the divine image. Therefore, it is more important what doctrines are taught via iconography than what they look like

 

[sculleywr]

That's the way the theory is always expressed. It's too bad it doesn't, and can't, work that way in reality.

Too bad that in order to work that way, a person HAS to come to your personal opinion on things

 

[sculleywr]

Sorry, but all I can go by is what's written there. You said something about "greeting Christ" and "victory in them," both of which could have many meanings, considering that God created everything that exists.

She was referring to the fact that only men and women were created in God's image

 

[sculleywr]

Are you serious? There are many Catholic churches--Roman, Orthodox Eastern, Coptic, Nestorian, Old Catholic, Liberal Catholic, Armenian, Independent Catholics, and more. There is NO one body of teaching among them.

And as for there being "no one body of Protestant teaching," why should there be? These are not churches that, in most cases, ever had anything to do with the others. The term means only "those churches that aren't Catholic."

There is no presumption that there should or even could be a single body of belief when we are discussing totally unrelated churches.

Yes, but it is your assertion that all people from all "Christian" bodies are of the Church, whereas it is our assertion that only ONE Body is the Church. You don't want us to draw comparisons based on your own assertion, then CHANGE YOUR ASSERTION!

You cannot say that we believe that only one body is the true Body of Christ, and then expect us to defend bodies in which we are not part. That is the most illogical and ludicrous expectation ever, and it is exactly why you will never get the answer you are looking for.

 

[sculleywr]

That's what you've told us before is your reason for being here--to smite Protestants and anyone who dares to speak unfavorably about the RCC. Has something changed?

Back it up with evidence, or it never happened.

Plus, this is a clear ad hominim. In case you were wondering, it's also way off-topic.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Oh, you didn't say "smite," that's true, but the meaning was there.

Since when did you become my translator?

 

[Root of Jesse]

On that one, he has you nailed into the wall. The Great Schism wasn't cultural as much as it was doctrinal. And there are now more doctrines separating us than before.

At least one patriarch disagrees, believing we're "nearly united".

I know I can't speak for all of them, nor do I pretend to. Even the reason for the split is at issue, depending on which side you take. Of course, Albion, being a non-Catholic, would take the anti-Catholic side.

 

[Albion]

Back it up with evidence, or it never happened.

Plus, this is a clear ad hominim. In case you were wondering, it's also way off-topic.

Ever encountered a definition of "ad hominem" before, sculley, or is this just a term you picked up here like "strawman" and "red herring?"

 

[Albion]

Yes, but it is your assertion that all people from all "Christian" bodies are of the Church

No, I wouldn't go that far.

whereas it is our assertion that only ONE Body is the Church.

That's called sectarianism.

You cannot say that we believe that only one body is the true Body of Christ, and then expect us to defend bodies in which we are not part.

I don't mind if you are opposed to church unity. What I didn't "get" is why you refused to say this when asked.

That is the most illogical and ludicrous expectation ever

Now there's another new word for you--hyperbole.

 

[Standing Up]

The problem is, Scripture was not determined in the time of Irenaeus, with the exception of the Old Testament. All of the Apostolic writings were referred to as Tradition in his writing. Sola Scriptura would have meant, in his time, using only the Old Testament and ignoring the writings of the Apostles. All the way up until the mid-to-late 300's, that would be the meaning of Sola Scriptura.

Well, some continued to disagree about the number of books in the NT, like John of Damascus with 28, until what, 750ad?

Others thought the canon was closed by the time John son of Zebedee died, thus Polycarp would evidence it in his letter.

So, depends on which side you're on.

 

[Standing Up]

I prefer the KISS philosophy "Keep it simple, simpleton."

I, however, do not limit salvation to within the Church, as Roman Catholics used to. Salvation is as limited as God is (and we know what that means).

I doubt you think all men are saved without agreeing with the Church.

 

[Thekla]

I doubt you think all men are saved without agreeing with the Church.

What makes you think that ?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Well, all men are not saved. But it's God's decision who is and who isn't. Well, actually, it's men's decision. But God is the judge.