Something About Mary

[Root of Jesse]

You misunderstand the priesthood of the EO.
They are not required to be married.
In order to become a Bishop - one must be a priest first... and Bishops are not married in the EO. Nor are the Patriarchs.
One cannot get to be prelates if they are married - so the ones unmarried are the ones who become Bishops.

Assumption of Mary derived from tradition - tho the name is different - it is also the Dormition that the EC call it.

Here is the 'difference' between the two - the EO havent expounded on Traditional doctrines - whereas the Pope has defined them.
Tho - the EO have n older understanding - derived from the same place and time as the CC - the Pope's charism is to carry on in teaching [and always was his place to do so] on what Tradition means.

So - we can look at the EO as how the ancient's spoke - but we look to the CC to understand these things in our terms... and terms to define them due to understanding them.

Interesting to note - if anyone is familiar with Lourdes - which i doubt... but after the Pope pronounced the Immaculate Conception - a girl - who didnt get much schooling in due to her health received apparitions from Our Lady stating she was 'The Immaculate Conception' to which this girl nor the school had taught nor she learned of it yet.
To prove it true - she dug in the dirt and water came out - to create a grotto... where many miracles have occurred. The worst cases were healed. The invalid walked - the sick were healed and it still happens today.

Perhaps God's way of saying 'I shall prove my chosen son's decree - man has an understanding and let it be proven in miracles as i have proven I worked of the Father.'
A house cannot stand if it works against itself. Christ's reply to those who suggested He used demons to exorcise demons.

Miracles of demons - if used in 'blessings' by wiccans cannot help of this magnitude nor can they last long... the illness returns worse.

Regarding married priests, there are some requirements that married priests remain continent after ordination.

 

[Albion]

You know full well that Popes don't make those kinds of decisions...

Of course they do!

Not everything is settled by a Papal pronouncement, but many are.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Did I say that they are "required to be married?" No, I did not.

But in practice, it is expected. Even if it were not, their priests ARE customarily married while yours in the Latin rite are prohibited from being married.


The point is that the two churches have different stories about what happened to Mary or her body, yet they both claim to have followed "Tradition."

Or we could take the matter of the Immaculate Conception. The EO have one teaching, the RC another, and the Old Catholics have no position on it at all.

Actually, in all rites, someone can be married, and then ordained, while someone who's ordained already cannot marry...
There are married priests in the Latin rite.

 

[Albion]

Actually, in all rites, someone can be married, and then ordained, while someone who's ordained already cannot marry...
There are married priests in the Latin rite.

Yes, there are a few minor exceptions to the rule, but the rule is still the rule and it's quite at odds with the policies of the other Catholic churches.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Of course they do!

Not everything is settled by a Papal pronouncement, but many are.

Absolutely wrong.

 

[Albion]

Absolutely wrong.

Well, then we can only conclude that you don't know as much about your own church as you pretend.

Wait a minute, we already knew that.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yes, there are a few minor exceptions to the rule, but the rule is still the rule and it's quite at odds with the policies of the other Catholic churches.

But it's a discipline, not a Tradition. Young men are required to give the gift of their sexuality to God, and be married to the Church. If you want to join other professions, you must meet their requirements, too...if you want to be a professional musician, you must practice and practice, and deny yourself of things to become the best. Same with athletes. That's called discipline. Same with Catholic priests.

You forget that the Catholic Church is not running a popularity poll...

 

[Albion]

But it's a discipline, not a Tradition.

Look. I was not the one who compiled the list of differences between the two branches of Catholicism. I merely commented on several of them. This was one and it certainly is a difference. The claim was made that Protrestants are divided; well, Catholics are also. That's the fact and it's not made any less so by saying "That's a discipline, not a Tradition." It doesn't matter what you call them--the claim was made about there being differences, period.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Actually, the ones that resemble my avatar are the ones that most resemble Jesus...for example...

(Peeked in)

Obviously theres all kinds of depictions. Now the one in your avatar (the nose) and face doesnt ressemble the one you just posted, but these could very easily pass for different men (after the flesh)

Now heres two entirely different people (who look much more alike in reality) but are really two very different people (not even twins by birth). Even if painted as is and done perfectly to each persons image, they are still different men (or women)

These real life's look far more alike then all the painted Jesus's

Even these (with their various statures) in this police line up look far more alike I think.

Thats all I am saying. But I do want to get off this topic because I tend (out of my boredom) get involved with threads beat to a pulp where that whole tail chasing thing happens and end up going round and round on the same ol' and nothing new ever surfaces out of them but the same ol'

Just sayin' so no one thinks I am ignoring them, just time to move on here

 

[Root of Jesse]

Look. I was not the one who compiled the list of differences between the two branches of Catholicism. I merely commented on several of them. This was one and it certainly is a difference. The claim was made that Protrestants are divided; well, Catholics are also. That's the fact and it's not made any less so by saying "That's a discipline, not a Tradition." It doesn't matter what you call them--the claim was made about there being differences, period.

Actually, Catholics are not divided. We use the same Catechism...

The faith is the same between Eastern rites and Latin Rite. Old Catholics are separated, as are EO, at least officially.

How the faith manifests itself in practice is a different story. Most Catholics do not care how people are baptized. They care that they're baptized. Sitting, standing, kneeling at different places, etc. does not essentially change the faith. So to call married priests a 'division' is no such thing.

 

[Standing Up]

Didn't happen to see a place that said "use only Scripture". Perhaps I missed it.-snip-

It really depends on what you are trying to "prove". ALL things necessary salvific have been written down and canonized and the scriptures say this.

However, if your group is of the mind to modify, develop, etc, what Irenaeus accused folks of (that the apostles didn't have the fulness of faith, and thus wrote it down for later generations), then yeah, what happens is what we see, schism, heresy, abiding evil in the midst of the Body.

 

[Standing Up]

Curious to see what he says about this.

How does one spell, backtrack?

Originally Posted by sculleywr

-snip-

I also made the assertion that there is only one Body. Not many. I didn't say that all other Catholics are part of that Body. If you wish to debate with my stance, please debate with it. Don't create a bill of goods and try to sell it to me.
​

 

[WarriorAngel]

Look. I was not the one who compiled the list of differences between the two branches of Catholicism. I merely commented on several of them. This was one and it certainly is a difference. The claim was made that Protrestants are divided; well, Catholics are also. That's the fact and it's not made any less so by saying "That's a discipline, not a Tradition." It doesn't matter what you call them--the claim was made about there being differences, period.

It's mostly cultural - the differences. Language and culture is always different.
But the 'same' teachings in the CC continue...[Catechism]
Protestants - even from the reform - splintered the teachings in different directions...eliminating some things, adding others.
Zwigli, Calvin, Luther ...Henry llX - all had their own ideas and opinions what scriptures meant [or in the case of Henry - what he desired the church to do]. And then their followers 'changed what 'they' the reformers - taught'

In the church Luther 'practiced in' there was a mosaic of Mary - to which after bowing to the alter - the priests turned to bow to the mosaic.
Then in time, that got covered up.
And today there are sects within sects...
2 or 3 types of Lutheran.
Calvinists - broke off - from Calvin's expounding on scriptures.
Zwigli - was quickly dissipated in memory. But his opinions are no doubt recycled in some church today.

Practices, disciplines, culture are the differences in the Catholic Church - as opposed to teachings.

Read some reformation and 'protestant' history. See what they said and believed as opposed to now.

 

[Albion]

It's mostly cultural - the differences. Language and culture is always different.
But the 'same' teachings in the CC continue...[Catechism]

Well, that's not true. The ethnic differences are always mentioned, but there are issues that cause these churches to call each other schismatics, etc....which is not described by culture and language. You're simply unaware of the issues.

 

[Cappadocious]

[venerable] Statues are holy? In what way?

Icons are set aside for the purposes of God, hence "holy icon".

A lord's house is set aside for the purposes of God, it is holy, because it is used by the Israel of God.

Etc.

 

[Thekla]

(Peeked in)

Obviously theres all kinds of depictions. Now the one in your avatar (the nose) and face doesnt ressemble the one you just posted, but these could very easily pass for different men (after the flesh)

Now heres two entirely different people (who look much more alike in reality) but are really two very different people (not even twins by birth). Even if painted as is and done perfectly to each persons image, they are still different men (or women)

These real life's look far more alike then all the painted Jesus's

Even these (with their various statures) in this police line up look far more alike I think.

Thats all I am saying. But I do want to get off this topic because I tend (out of my boredom) get involved with threads beat to a pulp where that whole tail chasing thing happens and end up going round and round on the same ol' and nothing new ever surfaces out of them but the same ol'

Just sayin' so no one thinks I am ignoring them, just time to move on here

Aren't we all created in the image of God ?

As before, the icon is deliberately not supposed to be a photographic/realistic depiction.

For the dissimilarities, there are also similarities which are symbolically teachings. Likewise, the dissimilarities point to our creation in His image; when we greet one another, and show respect to one another, we are in fact greeting Christ in the other.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Well, that's not true. The ethnic differences are always mentioned, but there are issues that cause these churches to call each other schismatics, etc....which is not described by culture and language. You're simply unaware of the issues.

Oh, right. Why don't you enlighten us about our issues...even the split between Orthodox and Catholic was very much a cultural thing.

 

[Standing Up]

Oh, right. Why don't you enlighten us about our issues...even the split between Orthodox and Catholic was very much a cultural thing.

Umm, papacy is your obvious split.

Nature of bread.
Nature of man.
Nature of sin.
Nature of salvation.
etc,
etc,
etc.

But hey don't believe me. Just google it (doctrinal differences between RC and EO).

PS. This is silly. The doctrinal differences are obvious. They have zip to do with culture.

 

[Albion]

Umm, papacy is your obvious split.

Nature of bread.
Nature of man.
Nature of sin.
Nature of salvation.
etc,
etc,
etc.

But hey don't believe me. Just google it (doctrinal differences between RC and EO).

PS. This is silly. The doctrinal differences are obvious. They have zip to do with culture.

Basically,

That is correct.

Any historian will attest to the fact that cultural differences sharpened the rivalry until the Great Schism finally occurred. However, he would certainly also point out that doctrinal matters were critical in bring aobut the split--the Filioque, Papal pretentions to primacy and universal jurisdiction, differing views about the councils, and more.

 

[sunlover1]

Aren't we all created in the image of God ?

As before, the icon is deliberately not supposed to be a photographic/realistic depiction.

Interesting

For the dissimilarities, there are also similarities which are symbolically teachings. Likewise, the dissimilarities point to our creation in His image; when we greet one another, and show respect to one another, we are in fact greeting Christ in the other.

You're now speaking of those in the land of the living as opposed to those
who have died?
Sounds cool.
Indians do a little bow to one another and say "sat siri akal" (spelling?)
which is like "the divine in me bows to the divine in you".