Something About Mary

[Fireinfolding]

(Although there are some who say that
they're perfect .. not me! lol)

Heres a good one

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

Even though God said that of Job earlier he spake of what left his own mouth concerning himself (and what would prove him perverse)

(P.S, cant post alot right now, just wanted to jump in and add that one).

 

[sunlover1]

Heres a good one

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

Even though God said that of Job earlier he spake of what left his own mouth concerning himself (and what would prove him perverse)

(P.S, cant post alot right now, just wanted to jump in and add that one).

LOL
I won't cuss you out and ask you where the heck you been.
Just know that someone missed you!


Good word btw.

 

[Root of Jesse]

No doubt those who think she's the fourth person of the divine Quadrinity can say that, too.

"Taken their cue from" isn't much of a justification, if you stop to think about it for a moment.

Can you name a Church that teaches that Mary is the fourth person of the divine quadrinity?

 

[Defensor Christi]

And those who choose not to attach a nearly deistic identity to Mary take their cue from from our Lord...

So your definition of idolatry is NOT placing something on the same level or above God...but being "nearly deistic"...I assume there is some metric for "nearly" as opposed to "not so nearly"?

Trying desperately to attach your personnel thoughts of what is being taught and practiced to something, does not make it reality...sorry.

 

[Defensor Christi]

For that, she deserves honor and commemoration. It is not a justification for all the other myths and pious legends that later grew up around her, even if we say that that experience of the angel appearing to her gave the promoters of their legends a "cue" or Biblical starting point that they then could run with--embellished, enlarged, and turned into all manner of improper dogma, much of which does indeed...

If our beliefs about the Blessed Virgin are all "myth and pious legend" how do you trust ANYTHING? Perhaps all of Christianity is merely myth and pious legend?

 

[Rev Randy]

I see no evidence of that, but go ahead...



You didn't say "equal to God." What you said was "Holding Mary up higher than God would simply be moronic."

That aside, I hope you can appreciate that not just anything that can be imagined about Mary that makes her more and more special can be honestly attributed to the words spoken by the angel at the Annunciation. Honor, respect, sure. Most of the rest, no.

What would "most of the rest" be? Prayers? Devotions?

 

[Root of Jesse]

Ephesians 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
Genesis 8:21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

Job 15:14 "What are mortals, that they could be pure, or those born of woman, that they could be righteous?

You really need to understand what being capable of sin is. Some actions are objectively sinful, but when circumstances reveal the nature, they're not. For example, stealing food from a store is objectively sinful. When your child is hungry, and you take an apple to feed him, while still objectively sinful, the circumstances warrant it. So the sin is absolved by the circumstance.
A child is not capable of sin, neither is someone severely mentally handicapped. Therefore, ALL does not mean every one.

 

[Defensor Christi]

I think it's easy to become confused about what's pleasing to God and
what isn't.
My ex worshiped the ground I walked on.
It was like I was an angel from heaven or something.
It made me extremely uncomfortable, and in fact, I
worried for him so much over it.
Certainly, I now know better and realize he was loving
me like Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her.
I'm still uncomfortable with that kind of devotion.

If you are uncomfortable...dont participate, it isnt required.

 

[Rev Randy]

For the record: Equal with God would also be too much. The Rosary it's self does not afford Mary the same time or attention it affords Christ.

 

[Root of Jesse]

If she does do you thank her?
Then it is her getting glory.

Call it what you want deep in your heart you know it's wrong and God's holy word makes that clear.

Yeah, I thank her. I thank my wife for getting me coffee and washing my clothes. It's not her getting the glory, though.

Deep in my heart I know that my relationship with the Blessed Virgin is perfect. I don't worship her. God knows my heart-you don't. I do hold her up as the model for women-she's the perfect woman.

 

[Root of Jesse]

All of the parables were fiction. That's what parables are, stories. Stories that help convey an idea or a truth, in such a way that it is easily understood by some, and yet utterly confusing to others.

If the parables didn't contain truth, they would not teach any lesson.This is true even of science fiction.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Not in the least. By that strange logic almost anything you would want to say about Mary could be justified on the basis that there was a "cue." If you have to rely upon calling something a "cue," it means that you can't say it was explicit, definitive, certain, or clear.


I suppose, but no one has suggested that, so I don't know why you're mentioning it.


I'd agree. Again, what is the relevance of that statement? You now have called "moronic" two positions so extreme that no one holds them. Is that supposed to make correct the notion you support by some sort of process of elimination?



Good one. Keep saying that. It's not true, of course, but it sure sounds right at first glance.

NOW, let's try to be serious. The angel announced what to Mary? Let's see--that she had been selected by God to be the mother of Jesus. That she was in favor with him.

For that, she deserves honor and commemoration. It is not a justification for all the other myths and pious legends that later grew up around her, even if we say that that experience of the angel appearing to her gave the promoters of their legends a "cue" or Biblical starting point that they then could run with--embellished, enlarged, and turned into all manner of improper dogma, much of which does indeed make her a demi-god, if the truth were admitted.

<edit>.

The angel Gabriel announce to Mary that she was the most blessed of all women. Past, present and future. By being most blessed, even more blessed than Eve, she's sinless. Eve was born sinless, too. But she disobeyed. Mary, though, obeyed. Being more blessed than any other woman, when she gave birth, she remained a virgin. Being more blessed than any other woman, she was spared from the decay of being interred in the ground. Blessed among women is more than just being in favor at some point in time.
<edit> She's the highest of all created humanity.

 

[Stryder06]

If the parables didn't contain truth, they would not teach any lesson.This is true even of science fiction.

I didn't say they didn't contain truth. I said they were works of fiction.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I think it's easy to become confused about what's pleasing to God and
what isn't.
My ex worshiped the ground I walked on.
It was like I was an angel from heaven or something.
It made me extremely uncomfortable, and in fact, I
worried for him so much over it.
Certainly, I now know better and realize he was loving
me like Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her.
I'm still uncomfortable with that kind of devotion.

I don't believe Mary wasn't uncomfortable with her station. First she's told that, while never having sex, she's going to have a child. She asks "How can this be"? But her response was "I obey".

 

[Albion]

What would "most of the rest" be? Prayers? Devotions?

Imagining, then making into dogma, such as the--


Immaculate Conception

Assumption of Mary bodily into heaven

"Ever-Virgin"

"Dispenser of all graces"

"Co-redeemer" of the world with Jesus

etc.

The Rosary it's self does not afford Mary the same time or attention it affords Christ

That's questionable. The rosary is a devotion to Mary. It was allegedly given to mankind by Mary. She will dispense the graces or favors that come to those who pray the rosary. The only attention it affords Christ is that one is supposed to meditate on events in his life while saying the rosary.

 

[Root of Jesse]

LOL
I won't cuss you out and ask you where the heck you been.
Just know that someone missed you!


Good word btw.

Yes, it's a good word, but doesn't apply to Mary. Mary didn't encourage the honors. She said "My soul magnifies THE LORD." And understanding what she just said yes to, in some small way, she knew that "All generations will call me blessed, because the Almighty has done great things for me, and Holy is His Name."

 

[Stryder06]

I think Albion is calling Rev Randy a liar...

The angel Gabriel announce to Mary that she was the most blessed of all women. Past, present and future.

I don't recall him saying "Past present and future". Just saying

By being most blessed, even more blessed than Eve, she's sinless.

Don't recall him telling her that either. Would be an assumption on your part

Eve was born sinless, too. But she disobeyed. Mary, though, obeyed.

We have one instance of Mary submit to the will of God and somehow that means she was sinless? Don't see how you're making that jump.

Being more blessed than any other woman, when she gave birth, she remained a virgin. Being more blessed than any other woman, she was spared from the decay of being interred in the ground. Blessed among women is more than just being in favor at some point in time.

More assumptions. You make her more than human.

Albion might think she's a demi-God, but that's his problem. We don't. She's the highest of all created humanity.

Sounds rather demi-godish to me.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I didn't say they didn't contain truth. I said they were works of fiction.

Well, the truth of the parable of Lazarus is that the rich man had all his riches on earth, went to hell, and the chasm between hell and Heaven, where Lazarus was, exists.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, it's a good word, but doesn't apply to Mary. Mary didn't encourage the honors. She said "My soul magnifies THE LORD." And understanding what she just said yes to, in some small way, she knew that "All generations will call me blessed, because the Almighty has done great things for me, and Holy is His Name."

Came to pass starting here too

Luke 11:27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked................

 

[Root of Jesse]

I don't recall him saying "Past present and future". Just saying



Don't recall him telling her that either. Would be an assumption on your part



We have one instance of Mary submit to the will of God and somehow that means she was sinless? Don't see how you're making that jump.



More assumptions. You make her more than human.



Sounds rather demi-godish to me.

IF she's "most blessed" of women, that encompasses all. If she's most blessed of all women, then she's more blessed than Eve, who was created sinless. She sinned, disobeyed, and fell. Mary was created the same, and obeyed. We have evidence that Mary submitted to God's will here entire life.

There's that Protestant phrase again..."I don't see". How is Mary more than human? She's not-you're the one saying she is.