T
Thekla
Guest
Not art, I agree.
But it is a product of human artistry (which in ancient times meant "craft" or the product of craftsmanship, ie not farming, roughly).
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I wouldnt consider the cellphone an art, but a means of communication. Like writing letters, far faster then pencils, paper and a carrier besides the many days to get your communications across. Whereas a dried up slab of cement just sorta sits there. Whether of water and dirt fashioned with no other purpose then eyecandy really.
Not art, I agree.
But it is a product of human artistry (which in ancient times meant "craft" or the product of craftsmanship, ie not farming, roughly).
Thankfully you didn't have a third thing to hold.I have prayed with a pepsi in my hand, when there wasnt a place to put it down. But then again, I have prayed with a steeringwheel in my left hand and an ice tea in my other because my cupholders are broken in my car too.
Ah so now you can judge what is worship and what isn't?Folks don't worship their stomach as a god yet He says it IS their god.
Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach,
and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things.
Thankfully you didn't have a third thing to hold.
Paul was a tentmaker, producing things that have productive value for humanity is not condemned. People make clothes too right? Houses to live in, plant vineyards, men make useful things of wood like bows (for hunting).
A cell phone and an image arent really compareable. One just takes up space, sits there and does nothing but look pretty, pertaining more to the desire of the eyes, it has no ears save whats sculpted onto it but cannot hear. Images of gold, silver wood and stone, can neither can see, nor hear, nor walk. A cellphone on the otherhand can be a means of hearing another, an device to enable talking to another and serves useful purposes between both loved ones and ones work.
Yes, you could.You could appeal to Mary before a Ronald McDonald statute then if your not. I mean it would become fairly unimportant to do so (as far as the practice goes) and far more easier to walk away from I would think.
I wouldn't make a judgement...I would also admit that if I saw someone down on their knees before a Ronald McDonald (statue) or whichever thing in cement (there be) and praying (regularly) toward these graven pieces... I couldnt help but think the cement forms (along with the ritualistic practice) had some kind of power (to them).
I would say "Who is a Buddhist's God"? Honestly, Buddhism is a non-theistic religion. They pray to Buddha.Well, at least in their own minds. And more especially so through observation (of such regular practices).
Like if you observe Buddhists. And these too will often set aside a room or a part of a room as a shrine. There will commonly be a statue of Buddha, candles, and an incense burner. It's also common for them to use prayer beads to mark the number of repetitions of a mantra, even a prayer wheel is utilized by some of them too, so its not such an uncommon practice in various world religions. Buddhists also would protest that they (themselves) are not idol worshippers. Because to them idolatry generally means erecting images of unknown gods and goddesses in various shapes and sizes and to pray directly to these images.
They say similarly, that "the worshipping" at the Buddha image is just to revere the image of the Buddha as a gesture to the one they deem the greatest, wisest, most benevolent, compassionate and holy man who has ever lived in this world. So the worship of their Buddha is really just paying homage, veneration and devotion to Him and what He represents, but not to the stone or metal figure either. Responses ofcourse varry greatly (well, on catholic forums) concerning Buddhists though, so hard to tell anything (on them) because you can read both condemnation and approval (so depends). I should ask, where do I find the official catholic stance on this, could you direct me on this?
Ah so now you can judge what is worship and what isn't?
I don't know, I just don't judge.
Yes, you could. There's nothing that says you must pray to Mary, or any Saint. Most of us do. My wife prays to St. Peregrine, the patron saint of cancer patients. Why is he this?Or you can just ask God the Father and allow the Holy Spirit to intercede for you, in Jesus' name.
The wises thing I know is to go to the Father:
And this is the confidence that we have toward Him, that if we ask anything according to His will he hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the request that we have asked of Him.I know that we have Scripture telling us to pray for each other and in each context it is dealing with the physical brothers and sisters, asking to pray for one another. Often cited is 1 Timothy 2:1 but people forget about 2-7 which puts everything on a physical plane. We pray for each other, I get that. But to say that we can ask those Christians who are asleep in Christ to pray for us thinking that they can hear us is not fair to them. We know for sure that God hears us,we know that Jesus taught us to pray to God the Father, we know that the Spirit intercedes and Jesus Mediates, we know that I can go to my brother and sister in Christ to pray for me, and I can pray for them I do not, however, know anything about those asleep in Christ.
1 John 5:14-15
Well, for one, graven image is a wrong translation. The word, both in the Hebrew and in the Greek Septuagint is IDOL. There is nothing in the language to say anything about engraved images.
So you're saying that they are one in the same.
graven image=idol
So you disagree with sculley?i do not think that sounds biblical
if they were the same, how could God have ordered the bronze serpent to be made or the charibum ontop of the ark
or how could He have been pleased with the images in the temple Solomon made?
Revelation 5:8 plainly states that the saints in heaven hear our prayers and intercede for us.I am never the person to encourage a belief that is not in Scripture and I don't want to walk away for this conversation with the idea that we are in agreement that "you keep doing what works for you and I'll do likewise". I am one of those crazy people who, if wrong in my thinking about anything of God, I want to be corrected so that I don't twist Scripture and say what I want it to say. My desire is to know His truth even if I believed something for so long, if i am wrong per Scriptue, I will change my thinking. But I'm going to step away from this conversation with a full assurance that I don't agree with your reasoning, if only because I don't think this conversation is benefitting either of us.
I wouldn't make a judgement...
I would say "Who is a Buddhist's God"? Honestly, Buddhism is a non-theistic religion. They pray to Buddha.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the official all-in-one document containing the beliefs and practices of Catholicism. It is a positve affirmation of Catholicism,and does not speak much of other faiths.
Well I knew it wouldn't be that simple.
I don't judge the heart, nor do I believe that individuals are committing idolartry willingly. Evil is evil, and good is good. The bible says woah unto those who switch it up and say good is evil and evil is good. Now I'm not saying that this is what you personally are doing. What I am saying is that every practice we hold should be evaluated to see if it is actually pleasing to God.
I guess my question really is at what point did bowing down before images become acceptable and no longer looked at as wrong?
I don't think that's the point. St. Paul exhorts us to pray constantly. I don't believe he meant each one of us to always pray. I believe, as a body, we should always be engaged in prayer.God didn't say that we have to be sinless in order to pray.
As for all the other points you've made, I don't know many Scriptures that explain to us the everyday life of those who are asleep in Christ so I'm not so sure if I understand the latter things you write.
A graven image, by definition, is an idol. For it to be graven, it must be worshipped. So the passage says "You shall not make any idols". But God Himself directed Moses to make an image-the seraph serpent. The reason we were prohibited from making images of God, in the OT, was that we could have no possible idea what God looked like. After Christ, we knew.Graven images or likenesses... thou shalt not bow down nor serve them. That's what the text says. Funny enough the command doesn't say a thing about worship. Go figure.
It's not about a "sinister mind", but doing what the text says, avoiding the apperance of evil. Why? Because our actions speak louder than our words.
And it's God to care about what God knows. It's also good to do what He asks, and He asks us to avoid the apperance of evil.
I'm sorry but where do you find this definition?
Interestingly enough, God being Holy never gave any instruction on a "representation" of who He was to be made so that the people could look upon it and worship Him through it.
The highlighed portion should include the word serve.Psalm 97:7 Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.
If you run the words idols and images (together) they come up separately but together in many verses
But some judgments are hard to avoid, for example, the Ronald Mcdonald statue example. If we would see such a thing as this...
Notice they are all before a Ronald McDonald statue, they are all kneeling, and all have fries in their hands, to me I would judge (by this picture) they were mocking kneeling before images.
I would feel very correct in that judgment. Not one against their soul, but in judgment of my opinion. To believe them serious (and condemn their souls) would seem to be a little harsh (on my end). I dont honestly think these men believe the Ronald McDonald image has any power (whatsoever) if they did believe this they would not be doing this irreverantly as they are doing.
So there would be my difference of opinion between believing these men believe theres any power in that statue and the other, its their mannerisms toward that image that informs me nothing sacred is really going on here. They are making fun of the idea, not putting off any kind of seriousness (that I can tell) toward doing what they are doing.
So my opinion (which is also my judgment) would conclude here these are making fun in their role playing. Whether God judges my judgment as correct (in my estimation) or not, I dont know, but I highly doubt many would believe my judgment is incorrect. However, if there was a difference in opinion I certainly wont argue with someone taking these guys more seriously then I do.
A man and not a God, or a creature and not the Creator, yes. Images of men. I did read somewhere that he also was against images, given the man stripped naked and took off to practice the less is more thing, I definately dont pick up (from him) that he would be crazy about that. I was reading into this last night.
Wasnt sure if they had anything, went to a catholic site a few times on this and they are very back and forth on having a Buddha figure and the philosphy of Buddha. But thanks for that, was curious if there was anything more official then the extreme takes between catholics on this issue.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?