Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I am not good with oxymorons, so is a reformed ariminian the same as a liberal Calvinist? If you believe the atonement is not particular, then you are no more than semi pelagian, regardless of how you view yourself. If Christ died for all sins of all people then they can't go to hell, not even for rejection or unbelief since those are sins and are covered under His death (all sins except blasphemy, which neither rejection or unbelief is)!!! If His death covered everyone who has every lived, then those in hell prior to His death were offered a second chance at salvation, which is not taught in the Bible. His death was either particular or in vain. And as for being in seminary, I do pray it wasn't the same seminary as Jim Jones, Oral Roberts, Benny Hinn, and countless other heretics whom also claim seminary to make their argument more viable. As for Calvin not being a limited atonement guy, then why was Jacobus Arminius a Calvinist until he decided no longer to agree with any of calvin's points, especially limited atonement? Arminius was a Calvinist believing in limited atonement until he studied Pelagius and decided calvin was wrong about limited atonement and that he could no longer agree with calvin on this point and decided to part ways with Calvinistic thinking from that point on. Funny how Arminius was a Calvinist until he studied the works of Pelagius and became a disbeliever in limited atonement.Would you please quit mislabelling my view. I am a Reformed Arminian in my theological thinking and NOT a Semi-Pelagian. That's your imposition on my view and it is false.
Bye
Amen!
Warning, Don't read this below if you don't want to talk about hell/depressing stuff.
I don't want to lower anyone's spirit.
-------
This has bothered me horribly for many years (even making it very hard for me to sleep many nights). I was saved at a young age, but I never knew hell was eternal until I heard my dad read a passage several years later that said hell was eternal when I was a young teen. That shocked me, I always had this vision as a child that you are tortured for a certain amount of time until you have a second death of your spiritual body, and then you soul is gone forever (no more suffering) just like a deer, fish, or any wild animal dies (gone forever, no more suffering). I wanted to get saved because hell seemed bad from what my parent taught me. So I felt good as a kid knowing I should be saved, but if there was a small chance I was not saved and God never heard my prayer, then I felt it would probably be pretty bad to be tortured, but again I thought I would have a second death of the spiritual body and everything would go black with 'no more' just like a wild animal, so I felt ok about that. (Not knowing as a kid the whole time there is really no words to describe hell. Horrendous and doomed is putting it lightly)
So after years of thinking about this, my thoughts have turned into anger, depression, and confusion. As a young adult I still go to church since my parents want me to (even though I have social anxiety). But I have not personally read the Bible to my self in a few years because these issues have depressed me enough that I would rather do other things to keep my mind mostly off of this depressing stuff (whether it be sinful things or not, but I still ask for forgiveness each day in a sad trapped kind of way hoping God hears me and won't get mad at me for questioning stuff in the Bible like hell), but I can't shake off the anger/depression. That's why I'm posting here so maybe someone has an answer to my questions below (but maybe no one in the world has a good answer to my questions).
So the most horribly depressing thing to me is why did God even create the first humans if God knew (even before human creation) that only some people will go to heaven, and the majority of people on earth (probably like 70 to 90%) will be tortured in hell for eternity? Why even create people if it was God's will that no ones goes to hell??? It seems pretty simple to me to just never start the first humans in the beginning, then there would have been no one in hell ever. God would have been perfectly fine without people, and that's a fact.
This obliviously means that it was a plan that God would allow most humans to go to hell to be torture for eternity, and God created and keeps hell together and alive for some reason I don't know. Why does God not allow all the spirits/souls in hell to simple burn out instead of keeping them alive in hell to suffer for eternity?
So does this mean that I have to accept that it was God's plan (even before human creation) to torture most of humanity for eternity in hell?? Help, this is driving me mad!
I don't believe I will ever have total peace again (like I did when I was a kid) until I get this settled (if I ever can).
If hell lasted just millions of years, billions, or even a googol amount of years, I would be super happy with peace knowing it was finite, and not eternal. The reason I would have peace is because I don't know how anyone can be 110% sure if they are truly saved unless God personally sent an angel or sent some miraculous event to confirm permanent salvation to me. And I would be also be extra happy knowing that most of the would would not be tortured eternally. Even to the worst criminals I would never wish for them to be tortured eternally, because one second in hell would convert them into a priest if there was a small chance they could come back to Earth. But the Bible says it's eternal, and again this drives me mad. It's even more disheartening knowing that some people go to hell just because they are mislead about salvation, even though they are really nice and loving part of humanity on Earth.
But the eternal aspect of hell is so heavy on my mind, I sometimes feel like my head will explode.
I had what is termed medically as "night terrors" when I was a kid and those had the most horrendous, low, and doomed feelings you could ever imagine (being trapped and forced to do impossible tasks over and over in my mind with total confusion and chaos), I would twist up in my bed sheets as my heart was pounding out of my chest, with sweating, and not being able to wake up. When I would finally awaken it was the most blissful and heavenly feeling realizing it was not real and I was ok.
So I imagine hell is trillions of times worse.
Bible reference to what I posted above:
Only a few go to heaven and most go to hell:
Matthew 7:13 and 14
13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
God wants all to be saved:
1 Timothy 2:3 and 4
3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God has always known the future:
Jeremiah 29:11 "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
Psalm 33;11
"But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever,
the purposes of his heart through all generations."
Proverbs 19:21
"Many are the plans in a man's heart,
but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails."
-----
One more thing, I don't believe in calvinism because to me God places the soul/spirit in a human right after conception in my belief. Thus People choosing to have kids are the ones that made a hell bound person in my option, because if God made that person it would mean calvinism is true. But since sex is a human freewill choice from God calvinism is false. Again I just don't know why God started humans in the beginning if God knew most would go to hell before God made humans.
So I think having kids is a huge giant eternal risk for possibly creating a hell bound person if they were to rebel as teenager/young adults (which is a big reason why I don't want kids).
I know a lot of this maybe hard to sink in, and I apologize if I offended or depressed anyone (because I'm not trying to do that), I'm just looking for maybe some good answers, because again this stuff just makes me extremely sad, and feel hopeless for peace.
where is doubt sown on here? You are right, hell isn't depressing for the believer because he/she won't go there. Many who answer the call do miracles in Christ's name, but yet He never knew them and He has made this clear in scripture. Who are the chosen? Those who are God's elect from before the foundation of the creation of the world which He chose to show His glory just as He passed over many to show His glory. Anything that gives man a center in God's creation and takes away from the Creator is a man centered gospel not a God centered gospel. The bible says we love Him because He first loved us not vice versa. It's the same with salvation, we chose Him because He first chose us, that too is taught in scripture in many places, even by Christ. People don't like election and predestination because it takes control out of their hands. The disciples didn't choose Christ, He made that clear as well. He even told them one of them were of their father, the devil. Of course we know, Judas was the one, even after being remorseful, Judas was never repentant because he was a vessel created for destruction to glorify God in an eternal plan designed before the foundation of the creation of the world
I saw it as referring to his own doubt. Just a difference in viewing I might think
. Peace my brother. But perhaps in counseling his doubt might not be lifted to the point that he sees a way of err as we have all seen in ourselves. Perhaps by posting here he may see his err or doubt and repent and believe in faith on our Lord and Savior. No ill intentions meant to you brother
I saw it as referring to his own doubt. Just a difference in viewing I might think
none taken ..did not even consider any as such 
A Reformed Arminian is not an oxymoron. That's your imposition on my views. You are as capable as I at searching for an explanation of the 'Reformed Arminian' position, but I'd recommend a start by reading the writings of Jacob (James) Arminius. He is the foundational Reformed Arminian. Don't you understand that Arminius to his death was a Dutch Reformed minister/theologian? He was Reformed to the core, but not Reformed as you want him to be. So what have you done: You have wrongly defined me, a Reformed Arminian, as being an oxymoron.
That is your assertion, but you provided no evidence to support your claim.
These are your presuppositions, not mine!
You have here committed a genetic logical fallacy.
And you provide zero evidence to support your claim. That's nothing more than your assertion.
Again, your assertion, with no evidence provided.
.. it matters not .. god does not desire any one to go there and so made a way out , so no one need go . HAVE FAITH in him who can do for you what you can never do for yourself .. and rest in trust.Sorry for such a late reply, I kept putting off looking here in fear I might have caused a stir and I don't like thinking about it too much. But, thanks for all the supportive replies.
"i see a statement of faithlessness and unbelief which need repentance from."
Your right I have poor faith, I need prayer. I wish God could give me some miraculous miracle such as an angel to restore my faith. Because my faith is it's close to or at 0.
I am in a sinful state or cycle I need to get out of I'll admit. I prey to God to help me and I admit to God I'm a sinner and pray for forgiveness in Jesus name each day. I just be blunt and upfront: I hate myself each day after certain premeditated sinful addictions that I have. I'm my worst enemy. My social anxiety disorder does not help my work day either (I try to isolate my self from talking, because it makes me very panicky and nervous/stutter) I also have very poor social skills because I was raised very protected by my parents. But I like everyone to be happy.
Do not be deluded into thinking you are any less then every other person ..faith needs but a mustard seed ... you have a little ..it wil grow faith -is faith . you have it . now put it in the lord Jesus and trust him .
"i do not see a clear formulated question."
I gave several questions because I have a lot on my mind. But If I had to give one question then here it is: Why did God even create the first humans if God knew (even before human creation) that only some people will go to heaven, and the majority of people on earth (probably like 70% to 90%) will be tortured in hell for eternity? your trying to comprehend GOD . you wont .
David said ... My heart is not proud, Lord,
my eyes are not haughty;
I do not concern myself with great matters
or things too wonderful for me.
2 But I have calmed and quieted myself,
I am like a weaned child with its mother;
like a weaned child I am content.
-----
Eternity I put emphasis on because why does God want to torture the same people he loves infinitely for eternity?
For example If we have a loved one in the hospital that is on life support but is in extreme pain, and they wish to be taken off of life support if they will have to suffer, so we eventually tell the doctor to take them off life support to end the suffering.
Why can't God do that for the souls in hell. I would never wish anyone to suffer for eternity, so why is this part of God's plan? Why no second chances for the doubters in the world? Do I just have to accept that God tortures people for eternity to be holy? How is this just? And accepting this leaves me with no peace.
he does not want to do any such thing -if he did he would not have become flesh and laid down his life for us
I have prayed the sinners prayer many times though my life, but I don't think I've have ever felt what people call holy spirit (I don't really understand that part it's very weird to me). I don't know how it could be differentiated from just pure emotions. I guess me being stubborn, a pessimist, a realist, and having anxiety is why I have many mental struggles.
prayer -is coming before God humbly and with absolute honesty and BELIEVING .. comprehension is not a prerequisite .. ...".,- how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!-.
"i see a statement spreading doubt on a christian forum "
"i see agenda ."
Nope.
That's why I put a warning on the top, If moderator does not like this thread then it can be deleted, I don't care. If you don't like then maybe you have a little problem like me. But honestly I don't want to spread doubt, that why I try to not talk about things like this to my parents if my little sister is around.
explanation accepted
"the topic of hell is not depressing at all and the good news of Jesus is extremely wonderful beyond compare ."
To me it's depressing (the eternal part), maybe you have never been burned badly, maybe you have never had a true night terror.
I agree Jesus it the best news of the entire universe, but it's the best news to me only if I can get 110% proof confirmation of salvation.
So for me to have total peace I need one of these two things:
1. 110% proof confirmation of salvation (such as an angel telling me I've been saved.)-
2. If there is possibility that hell is not eternal (Googolplexian years, blessed are you Thomas for seeing you have believed , how much more blessed are they that having not seen , believe... pp Googolplexian years, Googolplexian years, repeated forever and ever).
