Some random discussion on evolution...

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

A galloping horse is pretty complex.

How? Explain complexity. A gun is a series of complex mechanisms, but can built in the backyard with a shovel as a receiver (I've seen this done).

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

That house of cards is still being built. It will fall in time.

Oh, that old canard. "Oh yeah, it'll come... any second now... any second... now... any second now..."

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

If you can't look around and see evolution clashing with creationism and causing consternation, it's definitely myopia.

If you get anxiety and dismay from anything you see that you don't like, it's definitely a you problem.

 

[pitabread]

It's one thing for a critter to grow bigger, smaller, or more hairy. It's quite another for it to change into something entirely different.

There is no life on Earth that is "something entirely different".

Now had there been, this would be evidence in the favor of creationism (or at the very least multiple origins of life). Yet all life on Earth shares varying degrees of similarity.

 

[Speedwell]

I don't accept the premise of your question.

The premise of my question was that you divided evolutionary change into "structural" and "cosmetic." I was only inquiring as to where you drew the line between them, and offered an example. Is that example of evolutionary change "structural" or "cosmetic?"

 

[OldWiseGuy]

How? Explain complexity. A gun is a series of complex mechanisms, but can built in the backyard with a shovel as a receiver (I've seen this done).

You're making my point about 'redefining complexity down', or hand waving it away altogether.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The premise of my question was that you divided evolutionary change into "structural" and "cosmetic." I was only inquiring as to where you drew the line between them, and offered an example. Is that example of evolutionary change "structural" or "cosmetic?"

I said that I don't accept the premise that such a change ever happened.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There is no life on Earth that is "something entirely different".

Now had there been, this would be evidence in the favor of creationism (or at the very least multiple origins of life). Yet all life on Earth shares varying degrees of similarity.

That is evidence of a common creator as well.

 

[pitabread]

That is evidence of a common creator as well.

Not unless you can demonstrate the constraints under which said creator would be limited by. The only way to do so would involving deducing how the creator created living things.

Last time I checked creationists don't bother with that.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

You're making my point about 'redefining complexity down', or hand waving it away altogether.

No, complexity is a very subjective term. How do you define 'complex'?

 

[AV1611VET]

If you get anxiety and dismay from anything you see that you don't like, it's definitely a you problem.

Like 9/11?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Like 9/11?

Not the same in the slightest. Nice red herring.

 

[Speedwell]

I said that I don't accept the premise that such a change ever happened.

Fair enough. But keep in mind that from the evolutionist point of view biological complexity is a side-effect, not a goal of evolution, so for some of us your questions are perplexing and don't seem to have much to do with the subject at hand. And in the case of the bat's wing there is no increase in complexity anyway.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Not unless you can demonstrate the constraints under which said creator would be limited by. The only way to do so would involving deducing how the creator created living things.

Last time I checked creationists don't bother with that.

David pretty much summed it up.

Psalm 139:14
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

There is no life on Earth that is "something entirely different".

Now had there been, this would be evidence in the favor of creationism (or at the very least multiple origins of life). Yet all life on Earth shares varying degrees of similarity.

I meant at first glance.

 

[pitabread]

David pretty much summed it up.

Psalm 139:14
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Not particularly relevant I'm afraid.

 

[pitabread]

I meant at first glance.

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, complexity is a very subjective term. How do you define 'complex'?

Lots of interdependent moving parts.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean.

At first glance a ladybug and rhinoceros seem to be wildly different.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Fair enough. But keep in mind that from the evolutionist point of view biological complexity is a side-effect, not a goal of evolution, so for some of us your questions are perplexing and don't seem to have much to do with the subject at hand. And in the case of the bat's wing there is no increase in complexity anyway.

The complexity of a bat is found in the sum of all its parts as they operate in coordination with each other. Same for all creatures.