Some questions... from a confused mind.

[SmileAndAHandshake]

Let me ask you a couple of honest questions, and please understand that my intentions are honest and good in this post, and the questions come from a very confused but honestly interested state of mind:

• Do you, as Christians, believe that everyone (regardless of religion) should simply pray to Jesus to come into their lives and "see what happens"? This assumes they don't really believe anything will happen, but I'm saying should they do it anyway?

• Would you rather someone "attempt" to be Christian, and hold beliefs contrary to what you think is right/wrong (and let's assume they aren't preaching their beliefs as truth or inflicting them as "this is what Christianity is", they are different but they keep to themselves)... or would you rather them not try to be Christian at all?

• Is it wrong to "try" to be Christian / have a relationship with Christ, even when you know your beliefs differ from Christianity in general?

Lemme go into detail here... let's say a person isn't Christian. And Christians obviously think it's best for everyone to be Christian, obviously I get that. So, do you as Christians believe that the non-Christian, assuming they would actually do it of course, should just go ahead and pray to Jesus Christ and "see what happens" whether they believe it will do any good or not?

I don't know how clear that is, but it's the best I can do. It's a question that comes from personal confusion, that's for sure. I'm a non-Christian, who was once a Christian for a period of several years... (sincere sinner's prayer, baptism, church, the whole nine-yards), but I started off and grew up as a non-Christian. I tried Christianity, because I felt it was the "normal" thing to do, in a period of my life where I was feeling anything but normal I thought it would do me some good.

I ended up leaving mostly because of the judgment and down-right harassment from other so-called Christians, because I'll be honest with you: I hold some beliefs that are contrary to your Bible, and while I'm always open to personal growth, I think I can say safely that my beliefs will most likely always be this way.

I don't know what to call myself now.. Agnostic perhaps is best. I've tried other religions as well (I went back to practicing the faiths of my childhood), but I still find myself examining Christianity. Now and again, someone says something positive that really draws my focus and makes me remember that I should have stood up for myself as an individual and kept my faith, rather than throwing out my faith to keep my individuality.



At the end of the day... I wonder what your advice to me would be, exactly? Would you advise me to simply "pray and see what happens"?

Is it not better, though, for someone to attempt to be a Christian (even if they might be failing and falling down while trying, in your eyes anyway), than to drive them away from it all together?

At the same time, I've prayed. I've prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed. It never seems to matter. I've prayed when my heart was in it, I've prayed when my heart wasn't in it. It never seems to matter, nothing changes, I can never find that "connection" to Christianity, the Bible, etc. that other people have... and yet I still come back to it, searching. But after so much searching, I have to wonder is there a point in time I should give up...

So I wonder now... what would you advise me?

And if I went ahead and did that (prayed, and just "tried", and see what happens).. can a person call themselves a Christian if all you are doing is "trying"? Forever? Without end, only trying, nothing more? If not, what would I then be to you, I wonder? Would it be wrong to call myself a Christian? Should I call myself something else?




At the end of the day, I think these are the insane ramblings of a spiritually-confused individual. I hope I've perhaps made some shred of sense

 

[dmart]

Hmm for the first point, that is going to be absolutely useless, if you have no faith that Jesus died for our sins on the cross and rose again 3 days later, then you are not saved by grace, and if you don't repent for your sins... that prayer will get you 0 response, God will not hear you.

As for your later questions, I don't believe the Bible is there to pick and choose what you believe, for the most part you do or don't.

Do you honestly believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and was resurrected? As stated before I do not believe God will hear your prayers if you have no faith.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

Do you honestly believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and was resurrected? As stated before I do not believe God will hear your prayers if you have no faith.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I don't know. I've been studying and praying about it for 10 years, I called myself a Christian for 6 of that, and I still have no idea.

I'm at a point in time where I either have to give up... or stick with it knowing I may never know and that my feelings/mind may never change.

So the question is: Do I keep going, or do I give up? And as a Christian, what do you recommend I do? And if it's "give up", how does a Christian really recommend that to a non-Christian? But how at the same time could they encourage them to keep going if they weren't even sure they believed?

My only answer continues to be "I don't know"

So now what?

 

[dmart]

At some point reading and studying will do you no good, you must have faith. Get off that fence.

 

[freeport]

<snip>
I ended up leaving mostly because of the judgment and down-right harassment from other so-called Christians, because I'll be honest with you: I hold some beliefs that are contrary to your Bible, and while I'm always open to personal growth, I think I can say safely that my beliefs will most likely always be this way.

I don't know what to call myself now.. Agnostic perhaps is best. I've tried other religions as well (I went back to practicing the faiths of my childhood), but I still find myself examining Christianity. Now and again, someone says something positive that really draws my focus and makes me remember that I should have stood up for myself as an individual and kept my faith, rather than throwing out my faith to keep my individuality.

What Christians are asked to do is follow Jesus.

Not follow some Pharisees.


In fact, as John well points out in his first letter, 'you do not need teachers... the anointing teaches you all things'.

I hear from a lot of people that are very churched, but they don't actually know what Jesus taught. Or they disagree with fundamental components of it.

You have to remember the Pharisees and Jews in general were very well behaved, very religious seeming. And they were just about completely wrong.

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

At some point reading and studying will do you no good, you must have faith. Get off that fence.

My only answer I can give to this is "I am just not the type". I need proof to know for 100&#37;, and anything less than proof means I'll always be at 99% or less (maybe 20% maybe 60% or maybe 99%, but never 100%), and if I don't know, all I can do is "try". This is the point I'm making.

My brain is just wired this way, and surely God is the one who created me just like this. I wonder sometimes how can that be so wrong?

If I were to "get off the fence" as you say and simply tell you "Ok, I turn my life over to Christ 100% and I believe everything 100%" -- I'd be lying. I'm incapable of doing that 100%. I can try, but... that's the best I've got.

So when I die.. do Christians really think God will send me to Hell because all I could do was try, and that's all I had to give? That concerns me as well. That kind of attitude is very negative and off-putting, and one I encounter frequently... but now I'm getting into another topic I suppose.




Sometimes I think that perhaps I'm simply spending too much time judging myself against humanity's standards.

What Christians are asked to do is follow Jesus.

Not follow some Pharisees.

In fact, as John well points out in his first letter, 'you do not need teachers... the anointing teaches you all things'.

I hear from a lot of people that are very churched, but they don't actually know what Jesus taught. Or they disagree with fundamental components of it.

You have to remember the Pharisees and Jews in general were very well behaved, very religious seeming. And they were just about completely wrong.

Hmm... Thank you, this has given me something to think about actually.

 

[Johnnz]

We are to love God with "our minds". Jesus and Paul both used facts and logic to support their teaching and to communicate with both believers and unbelievers. The role of preaching is to give information to better enebale some response. Actually, the Bible is a record of God's attempts to communicate with us. He considers information as important. Proverbs teaches seek wisdom, get understanding and knowledge.

The major difference between mere credulity and superstition against belief is the basis for each is established upon.

John
NZ

 

[donb1959]

Not rambleing at all, they are actually very good questions/issues, well thought out and deserve a thought out answer. I would just ask that you give my answers the same consideration/thought I give yours, and that you would read the Scripture quoted.

Do you, as Christians, believe that everyone (regardless of religion) should simply pray to Jesus to come into their lives and "see what happens"? This assumes they don't really believe anything will happen, but I'm saying should they do it anyway?

Religion means little to nothing, religion is a dangerous thing. When you ask Jesus to come into your heart, you don't need to "see what happens". Of all the questions you pose this is by far the most crucial. When you ask Jesus to come into your heart, to forgive you of your sins, it's not a question of what happens...what happens is that by faith you have been saved and redeemed. Romans 10:13, Roman 10:9-10, Rev 3:20

Lemme go into detail here... let's say a person isn't Christian

A Christian simply means a follower of Christ.

So, do you as Christians believe that the non-Christian, assuming they would actually do it of course,should just go ahead and pray to Jesus Christ and "see what happens" whether they believe it will do any good or not?

OK I don't want to complicate this, but I don't want to over simplify it either. Unless you have said the sinners prayer, and accepted Jesus into your heart by faith, then you are correct that you are a "non-Christian" Do I believe as a Christian that you should pray the sinners prayer, well I certainly above all else would hope that you would.

I'm a non-Christian, who was once a Christian for a period of several years... (sincere sinner's prayer, baptism, church, the whole nine-yards), but I started off and grew up as a non-Christian.

If, as you state, you said the sinners prayer, and totally meant it, not just because it seemed right, or normal, but because you were convicted, and this is critical, because not all that profess to be saved by grace are (Matthew 7:21-23)(John 3:36)...you really need to examine yourself on that because 1) Salvation is ALWAYS by faith apart from works and 2)Salvation by faith ALWAYS results in works (James 2:18-20), (Matt 7:20).

Would you rather someone "attempt" to be Christian, and hold beliefs contrary to what you think is right/wrong (and let's assume they aren't preaching their beliefs as truth or inflicting them as "this is what Christianity is", they are different but they keep to themselves)... or would you rather them not try to be Christian at all?

The short answer here is yes. And it's a scriptual answer. (1 Cor 18-20), (Rev 3:16)------ If you are "pretending" to be a follower of Christ you can do much harm...intentionally or not. Then ofcouse there is the fact that you are "keeping it to yourself" which is totally unscriptual (Matt 5:14-15)

You talk of harassment and judgemental folk in the Church, I don't know your age, or how long you have been in your walk with God, but I can tell you this from experiance, the harassment, slander, back biting, judgemental attitudes are the rule rather than the exception in the Christian walk (Christ knows a little about this area). Something else of import, the enemy will always come for you, paticularly for you weak points, and he comes after folks that are struggleing in the faith....cause he is fighting the Father for their soul. If you were not convicted in you heart by GOD , the enemy would not be firing so many arrows in your direction.

At the same time, I've prayed. I've prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed. It never seems to matter. I've prayed when my heart was in it, I've prayed when my heart wasn't in it. It never seems to matter, nothing changes, I can never find that "connection" to Christianity, the Bible, etc. that other people have... and yet I still come back to it, searching. But after so much searching, I have to wonder is there a point in time I should give up...

My friend....it does not matter if you ever feel anything, it's not about feelings, rest assured your Prayers NEVER fall on deaf ears. The "connection" you speak of may never come....but I can GUARENTEE you that if you continue earnestly in your walk with God, your life will never be the same. Because you took the time to write this post means one thing.....GOD IS speaking to you.... Funny how that works.

Now, let me ask you a couple of questions. How often do you read your Bible...I don't mean in a speed reading fashion, but really dig deep, allow it to sink in, even if its just a couple passages? Is your prayer life consistant?

This is my advice....NUMBER ONE: If you need to repent, if you are feeling a tug on your heart...don't ignore it!

2) Get a good study Bible I use John MacArthurs NKJV, read it....study it, every day.

3) Get your prayer life in order.....just talk to God....don't worry about the "how to's" the how to's arent that important

4) Find a good, Bible preaching Church expository (verse by verse) if possible. This one I may be able to help with.

I sincerly hope my friend that I have helped in some small way....don't hesitate to post again if I can be of help....maybe we could exchange email addys.

In Christ,
Don

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

Thank you for your answers. Please know that I'm listening carefully about what each of you has to say. For now I have quite the migraine and am off to bed.

I did want to touch on this one point before I go..

If, as you state, you said the sinners prayer, and totally meant it, not just because it seemed right, or normal, but because you were convicted, and this is critical, because not all that profess to be saved by grace are (Matthew 7:21-23)(John 3:36)...you really need to examine yourself on that because 1) Salvation is ALWAYS by faith apart from works and 2)Salvation by faith ALWAYS results in works (James 2:18-20), (Matt 7:20).

At the time? I believed I did mean it as much as I could possibly mean it. But, now that I look back? I just dno't know... that worries me, because it makes me wonder about what I do and do not really know in any one moment. If I'm just "convincing myself" of one thing or another.

AGain, perhaps I'm over-analyzing... perhaps faith is much simpler than I make it out to be. I still to this day doubt I was wired for "Faith" and I'd say that's a central problem.

But I'm still here asking. That must mean something...

 

[Destiny2009]

Let me ask you a couple of honest questions, and please understand that my intentions are honest and good in this post, and the questions come from a very confused but honestly interested state of mind:

• Do you, as Christians, believe that everyone (regardless of religion) should simply pray to Jesus to come into their lives and "see what happens"? This assumes they don't really believe anything will happen, but I'm saying should they do it anyway?

* I personally would rather that didn't happen. Because if they are just praying to "see what happens" what's the chance that they are sincere and possibly ready to change. Because if they don't mean it from the bottom of their heart then the prayer means nothing. The chance of it being the start of something new is slightly less than someone who is committing themselves to them.

• Would you rather someone "attempt" to be Christian, and hold beliefs contrary to what you think is right/wrong (and let's assume they aren't preaching their beliefs as truth or inflicting them as "this is what Christianity is", they are different but they keep to themselves)... or would you rather them not try to be Christian at all?

* By all means I think if deep down in their heart they want to give it a try I could understand that. But I would personally rather that their not doing it just to do it. Because also if they are doing right not contrary to what I think but what the bible says. And they are living contrary to the word of God then I don't believe that they are saved. They can having christian beliefs/ saved christian beliefs but not be saved.

• Is it wrong to "try" to be Christian / have a relationship with Christ, even when you know your beliefs differ from Christianity in general?

*I personally don't see a problem with it if they are truly trying to have a relationship with God for real. But God would know their heart. I wouln't be able to see their heart. But what is in their heart should be showing brought forth.

Lemme go into detail here... let's say a person isn't Christian. And Christians obviously think it's best for everyone to be Christian, obviously I get that. So, do you as Christians believe that the non-Christian, assuming they would actually do it of course, should just go ahead and pray to Jesus Christ and "see what happens" whether they believe it will do any good or not?

I don't know how clear that is, but it's the best I can do. It's a question that comes from personal confusion, that's for sure. I'm a non-Christian, who was once a Christian for a period of several years... (sincere sinner's prayer, baptism, church, the whole nine-yards), but I started off and grew up as a non-Christian. I tried Christianity, because I felt it was the "normal" thing to do, in a period of my life where I was feeling anything but normal I thought it would do me some good.

I ended up leaving mostly because of the judgment and down-right harassment from other so-called Christians, because I'll be honest with you: I hold some beliefs that are contrary to your Bible, and while I'm always open to personal growth, I think I can say safely that my beliefs will most likely always be this way.

I don't know what to call myself now.. Agnostic perhaps is best. I've tried other religions as well (I went back to practicing the faiths of my childhood), but I still find myself examining Christianity. Now and again, someone says something positive that really draws my focus and makes me remember that I should have stood up for myself as an individual and kept my faith, rather than throwing out my faith to keep my individuality.



At the end of the day... I wonder what your advice to me would be, exactly? Would you advise me to simply "pray and see what happens"?

*At the end of the day I would personally suggest just evaluating yourself and what you truly believe. Not what others say think and feel but what you truly beleive, and examine your life in the state that your end. I would say give it a try but I would only say give it a try if that's what's really on your heart or if God is leading you that why.

Is it not better, though, for someone to attempt to be a Christian (even if they might be failing and falling down while trying, in your eyes anyway), than to drive them away from it all together?

*I know as a christian we all do fall done while trying. I would rather see a christian trying to better themselves and have a relationship with God at truly striving to be saved/christian. Than for them to throw it away all together. Being saved isn't something that I take lightly and I don't think it something that should be just thrown away. It's not a decision that should be made on the spot without consideration on how it can affect their lives. I think before throwing it away, I would have hoped that they have tried to hold on, that they were praying and fasting, and asking saints to pray with them. I hope they realizing their not just fighting to be a christian they are fighting for their life.

At the same time, I've prayed. I've prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed, and prayed. It never seems to matter. I've prayed when my heart was in it, I've prayed when my heart wasn't in it. It never seems to matter, nothing changes, I can never find that "connection" to Christianity, the Bible, etc. that other people have... and yet I still come back to it, searching. But after so much searching, I have to wonder is there a point in time I should give up...

So I wonder now... what would you advise me?\

*Everyone's connection isn't exactly the same. I would also say when praying, pray for strength to help you to hold on, Knowledge and Wisdom about what to do to make it. And also praying that you return to your first love. Which is something that we all have to do at one point or another. Sometimes it requries fasting. Or talking to other saints and asking how did they make it through. You will be surprised at some of them people who have been in your state before and have made it through.

And if I went ahead and did that (prayed, and just "tried", and see what happens).. can a person call themselves a Christian if all you are doing is "trying"? Forever? Without end, only trying, nothing more? If not, what would I then be to you, I wonder? Would it be wrong to call myself a Christian? Should I call myself something else?

*But see the thing is nowadays being can have christian beliefs/saved christian beliefs and not be saved. It goes deeper than that it goes to accepting him into your life whoheartly. Then, running after him and striving to do his will.



At the end of the day, I think these are the insane ramblings of a spiritually-confused individual. I hope I've perhaps made some shred of sense [

*Your not insane trust me when I say I have been close to the point that your at now. I have been to the point where in a sense I was somewhat depressed and I never thought I was going to make it through the situation it was so much trials and tribulations it was just life was happening. It took alot of praying a fasting to get back on the right track. I remember someone spoke a word to be and it helped me more than they will ever know. They said the floods will not overtake thee, the flame will kindle upon thee. I believe that's how it was worded but I believe it's from Isiah 47:2 , or 42:7 That verse was spoke to me last year. When I had gotten to a point where I just gave it over to God and was like I don't think I can make it anymore I am going to hold on and I am not letting God but lord I am going to really need your help on this because without you I can't make it through. But after that was spoke to me (that verse) it just caused me to just cry it did something to me. But even in the mist of the crying I just started feeling peace and strength and just gave it over to him even more. Even since then things have turned around and did a 360 while at one point I felt before the turn around now I feel on fire for him. It was one of the worse things that I have went through was feeling like that but, i know that if anyone is going through it I look through and to it with the eyes and heart of experience. I could relate to someone going through it like never before. Although I didn't like the experience I thank God that I made it through that because now I am sure that I can make it through anything of course with his help. But this is all to say don't give up and don't give in. Sometimes just as you think that you can, remember he can.

God Bless

 

[freeport]

Thank you for your answers. Please know that I'm listening carefully about what each of you has to say. For now I have quite the migraine and am off to bed.

I did want to touch on this one point before I go..






At the time? I believed I did mean it as much as I could possibly mean it. But, now that I look back? I just dno't know... that worries me, because it makes me wonder about what I do and do not really know in any one moment. If I'm just "convincing myself" of one thing or another.

AGain, perhaps I'm over-analyzing... perhaps faith is much simpler than I make it out to be. I still to this day doubt I was wired for "Faith" and I'd say that's a central problem.

But I'm still here asking. That must mean something...

Main thing is to read Scripture, and believe in the anointing, which uses Scripture to guide you into anything you need to know.


Now, yes, there are Christians and you can ask advice and such, but I find my walk in God is usually me pondering on some matter and God bringing to remembrance Scripture in my heart through the Holy Spirit.

What John also said in his letter was, 'remain in the word', 'keep the teaching you heard at first'. If you keep the words of Christ and apply them, seriously try and understand them, God will keep you -- all the time.


And that is really what it is all about, becoming children of God, trying to walk as Jesus did, who considered God His Father, and we know He is right. Jesus is the firstborn.


Jesus said this, 'call no one on earth your Father'.

What is better then having God in your heart to show you all things and keep you?


So, on worries, doubts, even knowledge or what one thinks they know, be willing to throw it all out.


The knowledge to keep is the knowledge 'of the secrets of the Kingdom of God', which Jesus taught.


A lot of Christians still focusing on 'cleaning the outside of the cup'. And that is usually pride. They want their own teachings, instead of giving up their hearts to Jesus. And that is what Jesus asks, to give up your heart to Him, by how? 'Clean the inside of the cup', and one does that by putting His words from God into practice.

If you note, that is what all of His teachings revolve around.

Be careful on judgment, forgive (no grudges), keep faith in God as a child of God who sees that God loves them, try to believe God on all matters through the message of the prophets and Apostles, seek and knock and believe the answers are there, speak the truth, sacrifice for love, be merciful... even on matters such as 'turn the other cheek', 'love one another as you love yourself', or 'give up what you have to the poor, then go follow Jesus'... these all really begin and end in the heart -- for what we do in the heart comes out, every thought, sooner or later.


Giving what you have to the poor, be merciful in your heart to everyone, seek to save.

Love one another, this requires deep thought, 'what would I have done to me in such situations'.

Turn the other cheek and love one's enemies... same thing. Requires deep thought to understand, and after understanding comes obedience in word and deed.


We are saved by faith through and through, by believing the word.

How do we believe? Look at the Pharisees and how they did not believe. They challenged what Jesus said instead of accepting it. Even the Apostles did this at times and Jesus reprimanded them for their lack of faith.

And all the miracles God gave Jesus to do: they all required faith from those whose... eyes were unblinded and ears unstopped.


Likewise, today even, like the woman who believed Jesus that 'if I but touch the hem of his cloak I will be healed', you have Jesus in Heaven, always there.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

It is always good to pray and to seek God. It's alright to pray and 'see what happens', imo. Sometimes people can't accept all of Christianity right away, so it happens in steps, and they come to faith gradually. God doesn't turn away from such people if they are seeking Him. He doesnt turn away from anyone. Don't worry about the specifics for now and just try to focus on Christ, talk to Him, be completely honest with Him. God bless

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Hmm for the first point, that is going to be absolutely useless, if you have no faith that Jesus died for our sins on the cross and rose again 3 days later, then you are not saved by grace, and if you don't repent for your sins... that prayer will get you 0 response, God will not hear you..

I guess I'm coming to this from a sort of a different angle than many others in this thread... (cause I'm not an evangelical Christian). I believe that if someone asks Jesus to come into their life, it doesn't mean they're instantly saved. It just means that they've invited Him to do more in their life and He ALWAYS hears that, and He answers. If a person prays this while struggling with faith, Jesus will help them find faith, if they're open to that. He will also bring them to repentance. Also, I don't believe that there are prayers that God "doesn't hear" - doesn't He love us and isn't He know and see everything?

My only answer I can give to this is "I am just not the type". I need proof to know for 100&#37;, and anything less than proof means I'll always be at 99% or less (maybe 20% maybe 60% or maybe 99%, but never 100%), and if I don't know, all I can do is "try". This is the point I'm making.

Ametropia, before I used to also always say, "I'm not the type". Try to just surrender to God. If we're surrendered to Him, He can give us faith, He can change our hearts, etc. Try to not hold on to anything - not any fear, not the idea that you simply can't be a Christian. Rather, allow God to lead you where He wants, and be open to Him.

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

Thanks guys

Monica, your posts were both particularly helpful to me, thank you so much.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Thanks guys

Monica, your posts were both particularly helpful to me, thank you so much.

 

[GaryP]

Man, too many words, When did Jesus tell us to pray to him? Remember " Our Father".
Come into their lives, Jesus said Follow me. Since when do sheep ask the Shepard to come to them. Jesus did the Will of the Father. This is called the Act of Jesus,
What does any belief by creation have to do with the Act of Jesus. Jesus leads you to the Father, If you desire to be with the Father, Go to Him, who cares what creation thinks.
Here is your answer in a nut shell, It's day 1 33AD. You Cant read, you are deaf and Blind. What do you have?
Jesus said it's Finished, What do you have?

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

Man, too many words, When did Jesus tell us to pray to him? Remember " Our Father".
Come into their lives, Jesus said Follow me. Since when do sheep ask the Shepard to come to them. Jesus did the Will of the Father. This is called the Act of Jesus,
What does any belief by creation have to do with the Act of Jesus. Jesus leads you to the Father, If you desire to be with the Father, Go to Him, who cares what creation thinks.
Here is your answer in a nut shell, It's day 1 33AD. You Cant read, you are deaf and Blind. What do you have?
Jesus said it's Finished, What do you have?

Your post is fairly scattered and confusing to me, but I think I get the gist of what you're trying to say. Thank you