Some questions for Christians who accept evolution

[Not_By_Chance]

For example, many creationists maintain that the Earth is only 6000-10,000 years old, even though the Bible "clearly" teaches no such thing.

It's all to do with those boring parts that no-one ever reads - you know the bits that go so and so begat so and so who begat so and so... There was a reason for including all these long lists of names - to show that Jesus's earthly family could be traced all the way back to Adam and Eve, the first humans. It also clearly nails on the head any notion of long ages for the earth and it forms a central core to the whole purpose of Jesus coming to earth. If there was no real Adam and Eve and no original sin, then Jesus deliberately allowed Himself to be tortured and die an horrific death on the cross for no purpose. Evolutions like Richard Dawkins clearly recognise the absurdity of trying to marry evolution with Biblical beliefs, “I think that’s [referring to theistic evolution] a tremendous cop-out. If God wanted to create life and create humans, it would be slightly odd that he should choose the extraordinarily roundabout way of waiting for 10 billion years before life got started and then waiting for another 4 billion years until you got human beings capable of worshipping and sinning and all the other things religious people are interested in.”

 

[Not_By_Chance]

Are these transitional fossils myths?

So are you able to see those fossils?

How do you know they are transitional? If someone had found fossils of all the different types of dogs that are alive today, they would probably have classified them as transitional. Where are all the transitional creatures in the world today if this is really happening and why do we find fossils, supposedly millions of years old that show fossilised remains of creatures that we find still living today but unchanged over all that time? Do you really believe the trees in the fields are your very distant relatives? You would have to if your theory were really true.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It's all to do with those boring parts that no-one ever reads - you know the bits that go so and so begat so and so who begat so and so... There was a reason for including all these long lists of names - to show that Jesus's earthly family could be traced all the way back to Adam and Eve, the first humans.

So could everyone else's -- what's the point?

It also clearly nails on the head any notion of long ages for the earth and it forms a central core to the whole purpose of Jesus coming to earth.

So Jesus would have no reason to come to an old Earth?

If there was no real Adam and Eve and no original sin, then Jesus deliberately allowed Himself to be tortured and die an horrific death on the cross for no purpose.

Because sin cannot exist without a literal Adam and Eve -- got it.

Evolutions like Richard Dawkins clearly recognise the absurdity of trying to marry evolution with Biblical beliefs, “I think that’s [referring to theistic evolution] a tremendous cop-out. If God wanted to create life and create humans, it would be slightly odd that he should choose the extraordinarily roundabout way of waiting for 10 billion years before life got started and then waiting for another 4 billion years until you got human beings capable of worshipping and sinning and all the other things religious people are interested in.”

Dawkins makes the same mistake the YECs do -- he assumes God must conform to a human timetable.

 

[Loudmouth]

How do you know they are transitional?

Because they have a mixture of basal ape and human features. They have human-like features not found in any other living ape, and they have ape-like features not found in any living human. That makes them transitional by definition. That makes them evidence for evolution. It isn't a myth.

If someone had found fossils of all the different types of dogs that are alive today, they would probably have classified them as transitional.

Why? What features would make these species transitional? Be specific.

Where are all the transitional creatures in the world today if this is really happening and why do we find fossils, supposedly millions of years old that show fossilised remains of creatures that we find still living today but unchanged over all that time? Do you really believe the trees in the fields are your very distant relatives? You would have to if your theory were really true.

Why are any of those things a problem? Why must all other lineages change if one lineage changes?

 

[Berean777]

An all powerful deity can't do something without killing people? Kind of puts the whole "all powerful" moniker in doubt.

God is not into a hit and miss affair friend.

Genesis 1:31
Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day.

Your argument implies that the all powerful God was doing this:

Let's try! oops
Let's try again! Oops

After the billionth attempt............

Bingo! Succes! The Eureka Moment! Yeh finally life!

The expression that God uses throughout Genesis is that God saw that it was very good meaning perfect.

If you haven't established it already but God is a perfectionist when it comes to bringing forth creation and life itself. It reflects his efforts and his character.

A person who has many hit and miss affair is one that does not reflect well upon his character. Would you employ an accountants or financial adviser who makes a lot of mistakes with your accounts?

I thought not and so your arguing for a completely lost cause, it is a none sequitur, it simply does not follow logic to have death and plenty of it before bringing forth life.

Scripture even states that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel is the God of the living and not the dead.

That being reflective of God's character how can you seriously make a preposterous statement like that friend?

 

[Berean777]

Does that mean that all the people in the world who claimed to have witnessed miracles actually haven't, seeing as how they're still alive?



Proving that one can witness the power of God and not die... you just torpedoed your own argument.

No that is not what I said. My opinion is that to see many things changing around you without you having control or natural apprehension will most certainly trigger the panic attack button, the fight or flight mechanism in all human beings. This will elevate your blood pressure to the point of stopping your heart. Simply put too much shock to take in all at once.

However in a miracle situation it is deliberate, announced and focussed on an individual, that does not effect the persons perception that there is an impending threat. Some people would faint and again this is a fight or flight mechanism being triggered in humans.

Many times the supernatural happened throughout the bible like angels materialising, would be accompanied by a reassurance message of "don't be afraid". The angel knew that the human would react uncontrollably and so this comforting reassurance was accompanied throughout the bible when supernatural events occurred.

Moses even went to extreme lengths to say to God that I have a real fear of dying every time I am in your supernatural presence.

 

[Berean777]

The result of sin entering into God's original perfect creation when Eve and then Adam disobeyed God's command. This affected the WHOLE of creation, including the rest of the universe and it has been running down ever since.

On a related subject about rejecting God's authority, I have found an interesting article which you may wish to read:-

http://creation.com/its-not-christianity

Thank you kindly I will have a read.

 

[Berean777]

Are these transitional fossils myths?

So are you able to see those fossils?

It is one thing to identify transitional fossils from different regions of the world in how humanity has developed differently across the continents and timeline, in the same way we have animals who have made transitions.

The question is not on transition, the question is to the evidence showing fossils in the billions as the evolution theory relies that have been proven to not yet make it to realised life stage, lie. For example a fish without a head or a species that tried to materialise somehow but just didn't quiet make it into the evolutionary life chain. These hit and miss affairs have absence of misses which should grossly outnumber the living fossils you presented above.

Thank you kindly for your effort, but that only proves the absence of missed trials to spark life into a purposeful function that not only materialised but was a sustained life form to a degree of its continued transitions as you have demonstrated that life continued from the basic specimen to the more complicated one.

The basic specism must be shown to not have been a life sustaining form that immediately collapsed and you need to provide billions of species out there as evolutionists suggest in producing those original specimens that have no continuing transitions.

Are there original fossils with no transitional specimens, if so were they a life sustaining form? how long did they sustain material status before they discontinue and collapse? and did they have a function that permitted life beyond the point of materialisation?

Basically the transition of specimens proves creationism and not evolutionary transitions. Evolution use this fallacy to prove that evolution exists when in fact it proves otherwise that in order to have a chronological order of fossil specimens you have life permitting original specimen that rules out a miss but that of a definite hit for life giving form.

We need the misses that have no chronological fossil specimens in the billions. I am sure evolutions have another billions of years to find, they should be out there right?

 

[TLK Valentine]

God is not into a hit and miss affair friend.

Genesis 1:31
Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good! And evening passed and morning came, marking the sixth day.

Your argument implies that the all powerful God was doing this:

Let's try! oops
Let's try again! Oops

After the billionth attempt............

Bingo! Succes! The Eureka Moment! Yeh finally life!

Gee, kind of sounds like this:

Genesis 2:18-20 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No that is not what I said.

Let's look at what you did say:

It would be a terrifying thing to see this when they were happening. If people would witness this power of God they would die from shock, they will not comprehend it. If God didn't make a natural system and he intervened continually, people witnessing this supernatural at work would most certainly die. Moses even complained to the lord please let me not see your power otherwise I die. Moses saw supernatural events that absolutely terrified him to the core.

Clearly a statement so demonstrably wrong deserves explanation.

My opinion is that to see many things changing around you without you having control or natural apprehension will most certainly trigger the panic attack button, the fight or flight mechanism in all human beings. This will elevate your blood pressure to the point of stopping your heart. Simply put too much shock to take in all at once.

I see plenty of Christians looking at the world these days having a similar reaction -- some of them on these very boards. No heart attacks yet.

Meanwhile, every single soldier who've ever been in war has been through plenty of things without control or natural apprehension, and while many of them do suffer psychological trauma (for which far too few of them get the treatment they need, it's true), none of them have ever literally died of fright.

However in a miracle situation it is deliberate, announced and focussed on an individual, that does not effect the persons perception that there is an impending threat. Some people would faint and again this is a fight or flight mechanism being triggered in humans.

Some people wouldn't.

Many times the supernatural happened throughout the bible like angels materialising, would be accompanied by a reassurance message of "don't be afraid". The angel knew that the human would react uncontrollably and so this comforting reassurance was accompanied throughout the bible when supernatural events occurred.

So all it takes to stop a heart attack is for the person to say, "do not be afraid," because as we all know, that's all it takes to defuse a panic attack.

Question: Have you ever witnessed someone having a panic attack?

Moses even went to extreme lengths to say to God that I have a real fear of dying every time I am in your supernatural presence.

Makes for an exciting story, doesn't it?

 

[Berean777]

Gee, kind of sounds like this:

Genesis 2:18-20 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

I think it doesn't sound like how you understand it. Maybe you can go back to grammar school to benefit and to understand why the semicolons and colons are all about.

They are there to make a entries that are independent clauses, in the same way a person takes notes in a cooking class, the order and reason is irrelevant but the intended purpose is to show the ingredients.

The objects mentioned in the paragraph that you have quoted are ingredients. God thought of Adam having a partner is not a lapse of God's plan. The author is merely highlighting the thoughts of God from the onset of Adam being created and timed her entry after Adam has made the accomodation for her. Simply put a man builds his nest prior to choosing his partner and God knew this all along and allowed Adam to know his territory and the animals and make arrangement whilst knowing fully well that Adam needed a partner and so God timed Eve at the appropriate time.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I think it doesn't sound like how you understand it. Maybe you can go back to grammar school to benefit and to understand why the semicolons and colons are all about.

Oh, this should be fun; let us investigate.

They are there to make a entries that are independent clauses, in the same way a person takes notes in a cooking class, the order and reason is irrelevant but the intended purpose is to show the ingredients.

Sounds like you're saying that these events are being presented in no particular order and for no reason.

Meanwhile, those of us who have been to grammar school know that semicolons join together independent clauses within the same sentence. Furthermore, we know that the use of coordinating conjunctions, specifically "and" and "but," reveal that the order and reason are indeed quite relevant.

So, while I don't know who taught you the exegesis of this particular passage, my best advice to you is to find that person and demand your dollar back.

The objects mentioned in the paragraph that you have quoted are ingredients. God thought of Adam having a partner is not a lapse of God's plan.

Of course not -- it was a problem that needed solving.

So God attempted to solve it... many times over.

Alas, every single attempt to find a suitable helper for Adam was a failure until He hit upon the idea for Eve.

Yesiree, Bob -- every last one of the umpteen billions of kinds of living creatures was paraded before Adam, one by one, and yet not a single one of them was the right one.

The author is merely highlighting the thoughts of God from the onset of Adam being created and timed her entry after Adam has made the accomodation for her. Simply put a man builds his nest prior to choosing his partner and God knew this all along and allowed Adam to know his territory and the animals and make arrangement whilst knowing fully well that Adam needed a partner and so God timed Eve at the appropriate time.

Remember what I said about demanding your dollar back? Coordinating conjunctions are our friends.

 

[Berean777]

A purpose driven existence is one that is hinged on the deliberate creative actions of the Creator. While there be many who profess to know the truth, that is a vain thought in itself, it is the vanity of vanities, an utterance, a worthless spatter that is just a breath and with time it fades to nothingness.

It is like the apostle testified:

Romans 3:3-4
3What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak

and prevail when you judge.”

Many have tried to reach up to God and have been brought down to shame. The grave that they are destined for is their shame, for they that speak unfavourably to the Creator are speaking vanity of vanities.

 

[bhsmte]

A purpose driven existence is one that is hinged on the deliberate creative actions of the Creator. While there be many who profess to know the truth, that is a vain thought in itself, it is the vanity of vanities, an utterance, a worthless spatter that is just a breath and with time it fades to nothingness.

It is like the apostle testified:

Romans 3:3-4
3What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak

and prevail when you judge.”

Many have tried to reach up to God and have been brought down to shame. The grave that they are destined for is their shame, for they that speak unfavourably to the Creator are speaking vanity of vanities.

You seem to contradict yourself often, as TLK has pointed out.

 

[TLK Valentine]

A purpose driven existence is one that is hinged on the deliberate creative actions of the Creator.

Says who?

While there be many who profess to know the truth, that is a vain thought in itself, it is the vanity of vanities, an utterance, a worthless spatter that is just a breath and with time it fades to nothingness.

Only one here professing to know the truth is yourself.

 

[TLK Valentine]

You seem to contradict yourself often, as TLK has pointed out.

Does this make his third or fourth time? How are we keeping count?

 

[lasthero]

. If God wanted to create life and create humans, it would be slightly odd that he should choose the extraordinarily roundabout way of waiting for 10 billion years before life got started and then waiting for another 4 billion years until you got human beings capable of worshipping and sinning and all the other things religious people are interested in.”

God has a problem waiting? Isn't he supposed to be timeless? What difference does it make to him if it takes ten thousand years or ten billion?

 

[Berean777]

God has a problem waiting? Isn't he supposed to be timeless? What difference does it make to him if it takes ten thousand years or ten billion?

The Big Bang is when matter materialised from antimatter in a precisely timed bang, the position of celestial bodies must have been placed at precise locations, in order to start the engine which is the spiralling Galaxy. If it took too long, it would collapse on itself in a heap of ruin. Just like when you shoot off a satellite into orbit if it takes too long to make the window of opportunity of exit to take its designated orbital, then it would not survive and would most probably be destroyed before it even reaches the designated orbital.

The Big Bang requires not only an instant timed bang but requires that celestial matter be positioned precisely, along with the ignition of stars at almost simultaneous times so that Gravity is maintained, to start the gravity producing galaxy engine, otherwise the spiral effect of the galaxy would collapse in itself almost as soon as the Big Bang pushed outwardly matter, matter would come back to the originating black hole.

The same problem is observed at CERN where protons are collided in timed Big Bang simulation only to find that they collapse into black holes before being detected.

Many scientists have been scratching their heads and one smart scientist called Lawrence Kraus said that faster speeds than the speed of light is impossible because they are the constants resulting from the Big Bang.

So when God said let there be Light we must conclude that the light that God injected into the immaterial void, must have been pure light at speeds approaching infinity, in order to produce a Galaxy that has constants to the many many powers of. In a lab scientists can get away with speeds slightly greater than that of the speed of light, however they can never achieve this according to Kraus and this is only for a small lab experiment. Imagine the vastness of the Galaxy, the light required to make the transition from antimatter to matter must have been infinite.

That is why a Creator who took responsibility for this infinite Light and trigger in the Big Bang by saying let there be light is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel.

A timeless being is inverse of time and an infinite source of light.

 

[Colter]

So could everyone else's -- what's the point?



So Jesus would have no reason to come to an old Earth?



Because sin cannot exist without a literal Adam and Eve -- got it.



Dawkins makes the same mistake the YECs do -- he assumes God must conform to a human timetable.

So could everyone else's -- what's the point?



So Jesus would have no reason to come to an old Earth?



Because sin cannot exist without a literal Adam and Eve -- got it.



Dawkins makes the same mistake the YECs do -- he assumes God must conform to a human timetable.

The Bible is a series of books wherin holy men attempt to interpret the doings of the Gods and his many subordinates. While many of the events may have happened, the way they have been interpreted is not accurate. Declaring the conjecture as Gods Word leads sincere people to live in stubborn denial and stunted growth. In some cases major revisions of history were deliberately carried out.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

showing no conceivable evidence of function

There's so much that we don't know that we've yet to learn. I understand that much of what was regarded as junk DNA has been found to have a function after all. Perhaps it's the same with this. Only the creator knows the answer, just as only He knows what's beyond the edge of the known universe.