Some questions for Christians who accept evolution

[TLK Valentine]

It does.

How does it address the issue of reliability?

 

[justlookinla]

How does it address the issue of reliability?

It addresses the issue of the exclusivity of God.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It addresses the issue of the exclusivity of God.

Unreliably, I'm sorry to say.

 

[justlookinla]

Unreliably, I'm sorry to say.

Depends on what one finds to be reliable.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Depends on what one finds to be reliable.

Well, that's the whole issue, isn't it? Since Psalm 113 doesn't address it, it doesn't answer the question.

 

[justlookinla]

Well, that's the whole issue, isn't it? Since Psalm 113 doesn't address it, it doesn't answer the question.

Psalm 113 specifically addresses the exclusivity of God.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Psalm 113 specifically addresses the exclusivity of God.

*sigh* let me make this simple: Why should I believe Psalms 113?

 

[Colter]

In the redacting of the OT the Hebrews left signs of the original history which gives us insight into beliefs in other Gods. When David's army defeated the Philistiens they named that place after the God of some of his troops " Baal" who shared in the victory.

David Defeats the Philistines
…19Then David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up against the Philistines? Will You give them into my hand?" And the LORD said to David, "Go up, for I will certainly give the Philistines into your hand." 20So David came to Baal-perazim and defeated them there; and he said, "The LORD has broken through my enemies before me like the breakthrough of waters." Therefore he named that place Baal-perazim.21They abandoned their idols there, so David and his men carried them away.…​

 

[AV1611VET]

In the redacting of the OT the Hebrews left signs of the original history which gives us insight into beliefs in other Gods. When David's army defeated the Philistiens they named that place after the God of some of his troops " Baal" who shared in the victory.

David Defeats the Philistines
…19Then David inquired of the LORD, saying, "Shall I go up against the Philistines? Will You give them into my hand?" And the LORD said to David, "Go up, for I will certainly give the Philistines into your hand." 20So David came to Baal-perazim and defeated them there; and he said, "The LORD has broken through my enemies before me like the breakthrough of waters." Therefore he named that place Baal-perazim.21They abandoned their idols there, so David and his men carried them away.…​

[VERSE=1 Kings 18:21-24,KJV][VERSENUM]21[/VERSENUM] And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

[VERSENUM]22[/VERSENUM] Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

[VERSENUM]23[/VERSENUM] Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: [VERSENUM]24[/VERSENUM] And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.[/VERSE]

 

[Berean777]

I have some questions for Christians who have accepted the theory of evolution as being the truth, rather than a straightforward reading of the biblical account of creation...

• If the Genesis account of creation isn’t true, what do you make of the following part of the ten commandments?

Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labour and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

• When did sin come into God’s creation and how does that relate to death and suffering in the world?
  
  
• If death came before sin then it wasn’t the penalty for sin. So, if there wasn’t a literal Adam who brought sin and death to God’s creation, then what was the purpose of Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross?
  
  
• In Mark 10:6, Jesus says this, "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female.” So here we have God incarnate telling us directly that mankind was right there at the beginning of creation. How do you reconcile that with the evolutionary idea of billions of years?
  
  
• The evolutionists have various hypotheses for the ultimate fate of the universe. Which one do you accept as the most likely, or is the second coming of Jesus a part of the Bible that you still accept as being the truth?

If you use evolutionists hypotheses for the ultimate fate of the universe resulting billions of trials and misses, then you need to also regress to the Big Bang as billions of hits and misses. You need to use the same model as a uniform model.

Scientists know that in order for our system to have the right constants that permit life, the bang at the start needed to be timed so accurately that it result in antimatter to matter conversion that permits life. Who pulled the trigger?

Because with a Big Bang if you have lots of trials and misses, then you would have billions of multiverses out there, that are reminance of not one bang but multiple bangs. Scientists have theorised the implausibility of such theory in the absence of evidence that can not be made up to suit the modelled formulae.

The perfectly timed Big Bang is described in the Bible believe it or not.

Genesis 1:1-3
Genesis
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

This is a summary of what God did. Heaven and earth encompasses not only our planet but he cosmos.

And the earth was without form, and void;

The cosmos was not yet formed as no matter had been created and void of anything material.

and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

No matters and no light/heat/energy was there.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

God moved by triggering the start of the Big Bang.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

God declares he is source of light/energy and he then triggers the Big Bang precisely by saying BANG let there be light and instantly antimatter to matter conversion occurred that instantly brought matter with heat and energy, along with the perfect constants to sustain life.

God needed to instantly produce matter and all the celestial bodies in a pattern that create a balanced system to retain the universal constants. If this process took more time than what was required then those constants would have drifted (collapse) outside of life sustaining universe and it would be a false start, requiring another start.

Think of the Big Bang as a laboratory setup with all the reactions controlled in a timely manner that doesn't allow one to run away from another for the reaction to be controlled. Antimatter to matter needs to also be controlled otherwise it collapses on itself, if the celestial bodies were not formed instantly their required positions and attributes, gravity would collapse.

Adam in like manner was formed when God intervened by breathing into him, where Adam was formed from the same clay material, called star dust, ie matter. God breathing in him transformed instantly the star dust into an arrangement that formed a living biological living man. If anyone has seen startrek you will know that a replicator of matter converts antimatter into matter. However the biomechanical interface requires also a living spirit that has consciousness and antimatter to matter conversion on its own does not produce consciousness, it requires life itself to enter that materialised object in order to have consciousness.

God does the same thing with all the living animals and fish and other creatures by materialising them and giving them a living spirit. The spirit is like a software download to the the biomechanical object.

Evolution having billion of repeats of trails and misses does not materialise consciousness, it only will yield at best an interface and a junk yard of ill formed matter strewn across the land and the Galaxy. If you have lots of trials there must be evidence to those billions of trials out there in cosmos and even on earth. However scientists have not proven an archeological species that never quite got there in their fossil chart. For example a body without a head or anything that can be linked to evolving but yet a miss, therefore unable to sustain that species. There should be lots of fossilised evidence of trial and error. There isn't because the system started perfect and has been winding downwards. There should be billions of fossils that highlight life starting and materialising but not yet getting there.

How could any intellectual person seriously consider the evolutionary theory.

 

[Berean777]

It would be a terrifying thing to see this when they were happening. If people would witness this power of God they would die from shock, they will not comprehend it. If God didn't make a natural system and he intervened continually, people witnessing this supernatural at work would most certainly die. Moses even complained to the lord please let me not see your power otherwise I die. Moses saw supernatural events that absolutely terrified him to the core.

 

[bhsmte]

*sigh* let me make this simple: Why should I believe Psalms 113?

Cause.

 

[Colter]

[VERSE=1 Kings 18:21-24,KJV][VERSENUM]21[/VERSENUM] And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

[VERSENUM]22[/VERSENUM] Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

[VERSENUM]23[/VERSENUM] Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: [VERSENUM]24[/VERSENUM] And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.[/VERSE]

That's how the redactors recollected it.

 

[Loudmouth]

It would be a terrifying thing to see this when they were happening. If people would witness this power of God they would die from shock, they will not comprehend it. If God didn't make a natural system and he intervened continually, people witnessing this supernatural at work would most certainly die. Moses even complained to the lord please let me not see your power otherwise I die. Moses saw supernatural events that absolutely terrified him to the core.

An all powerful deity can't do something without killing people? Kind of puts the whole "all powerful" moniker in doubt.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

How could any intellectual person seriously consider the evolutionary theory.

That's what I have been unable to fathom myself. And the myth of macro evolution gets more fanciful the more we discover about the complexity of life and the universe in which we live. I think there are clues to why this in so in the Bible: well-known passages such as Jesus saying He has come to give sight to the blind but take it away from those who see or the bit about ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[bhsmte]

That's what I have been unable to fathom myself. And the myth of macro evolution gets more fanciful the more we discover about the complexity of life and the universe in which we live. I think there are clues to why this in so in the Bible: well-known passages such as Jesus saying He has come to give sight to the blind but take it away from those who see or the bit about ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

You know, the devout Christian and geneticist Francis Collins say the exact opposite. He doesn't see how any educated person, can deny the theory of evolution and the boatloads of evidence to support it.

This could be why, there is a strong correlation between; higher levels of education and higher acceptance of evolutionary theory.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It would be a terrifying thing to see this when they were happening. If people would witness this power of God they would die from shock, they will not comprehend it.

Does that mean that all the people in the world who claimed to have witnessed miracles actually haven't, seeing as how they're still alive?

If God didn't make a natural system and he intervened continually, people witnessing this supernatural at work would most certainly die. Moses even complained to the lord please let me not see your power otherwise I die. Moses saw supernatural events that absolutely terrified him to the core.

Proving that one can witness the power of God and not die... you just torpedoed your own argument.

 

[Not_By_Chance]

There isn't because the system started perfect and has been winding downwards.

The result of sin entering into God's original perfect creation when Eve and then Adam disobeyed God's command. This affected the WHOLE of creation, including the rest of the universe and it has been running down ever since.

On a related subject about rejecting God's authority, I have found an interesting article which you may wish to read:-

http://creation.com/its-not-christianity

 

[Not_By_Chance]

He doesn't see how any educated person, can deny the theory of evolution and the boatloads of evidence to support it.

The Bible has possible explanations for this if you care to read an earlier post I made this evening.

It's interesting, because I know of one biology professor who used to believe and teach evolution, but when he finally converted to being a creation scientist, he stated that a) he recognised the story of evolution as the greatest lie he ever told and b) he couldn't believe how much evidence there was for creation and why he hadn't been able to see it before. Perhaps God had opened his eyes to the truth in response to this man opening his heart to God.

 

[Loudmouth]

That's what I have been unable to fathom myself. And the myth of macro evolution gets more fanciful the more we discover about the complexity of life and the universe in which we live.

Are these transitional fossils myths?

I think there are clues to why this in so in the Bible: well-known passages such as Jesus saying He has come to give sight to the blind but take it away from those who see or the bit about ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

So are you able to see those fossils?